270 réponses à ce sujet

[Antivenger]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

The geth would not be slaves. They would be returned to their former state, as a labor force, with no sentience.

Humour me here. The Quarians already made the "mistake" as you call it of creating sentient life. Not unplausible that they would use the much more powerful force of enslaved AI to do their bidding.

[Urdnot Orrad]

Antivenger wrote...

Alright, so the view is split and there is probably no way to change either side's minds. Xen vs Quib Quib. Now, a question for you,

What do you think the Quarians would do if they managed to regain control of the Geth? Not as labour bots, but as slaves.

Note that if they have already gained control, Xen would have superior control.

You're forgetting Han'Gerel. 

[N7 Vanguard]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

A mistake that I will deal with? We had to deal with it in ME1! We killed LOTS of geth!

We killed Geth in ME1 because they were trying to bring reapers in to destroy the entire galaxy. We weren't fighting the main geth fleet but a small faction of the geth that became indoctrinated to Sovereign. The main geth fleet even thought they should be neutralized. The Geth of ME1 had a completely different idea of right from wrong, that is why they were called the heretics.

[Antivenger]

Urdnot Orrad wrote...

Antivenger wrote...

Alright, so the view is split and there is probably no way to change either side's minds. Xen vs Quib Quib. Now, a question for you,

What do you think the Quarians would do if they managed to regain control of the Geth? Not as labour bots, but as slaves.

Note that if they have already gained control, Xen would have superior control.

You're forgetting Han'Gerel. 

Xen is Daro's (family?) name and Qwib Qwib is Zaal's mothership-thing. Their names are catchy, Gerel sounds weird and Neema already belongs to Tali. And Han?

Modifié par Antivenger, 24 avril 2011 - 07:52 .

[didymos1120]

N7 Vanguard wrote...

 We weren't fighting the main geth fleet but a small faction of the geth that became indoctrinated to Sovereign.

They weren't indoctrinated.  That only works on organics, and besides, as Legion tells you multiple times, they chose to follow Sovereign because the Reapers offered them technology (basically, a Reaper body they could all upload to).

[Ramirez Wolfen]

@N7 Vanguard

The point I was making was that because of the quarians' mistake, we had to deal with that. If the quarians did something about the geth (like I said earlier a Trojan horse tactic), then we wouldn't have to deal with stuff like that anymore.

[N7 Vanguard]

didymos1120 wrote...

N7 Vanguard wrote...

 We weren't fighting the main geth fleet but a small faction of the geth that became indoctrinated to Sovereign.

They weren't indoctrinated.  That only works on organics, and besides, as Legion tells you multiple times, they chose to follow Sovereign because the Reapers offered them technology (basically, a Reaper body they could all upload to).

Ah well my mistake. but that doesnt change much, it just shows that part of the species is capable of making its own decisions without the rest following. Meaning they have individual thought process. But they were still tricked by the reapers, it was stated somewhere or another that the reapers never intended to give them anything and they were just being played as much as Saren.

[Katamariguy]

 @ OP

But why? They'we sow cwute!

[Ashira Shepard]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

The geth would not be slaves. They would be returned to their former state, as a labor force, with no sentience.

And exactly what gives anyone the right to take away another being's sentience?

@Katamariguy

Oh mercy! I love that image. 8D Thank you for bringing it into my life!

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 24 avril 2011 - 08:12 .

[Ashira Shepard]

Edit: Double post...

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 24 avril 2011 - 08:12 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

@AshiraShepard

The quarians created the geth. In my opinion:

Creator = right to do what they want with what they created

[Ashira Shepard]

Parents create their children.

Allowed to do whatever the hell they want with them?

It only applies when the "created" in question doesn't have an opinion on their state.

Which the Geth do.

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 24 avril 2011 - 08:18 .

[TheBlackBaron]

GodWood wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
@Godwood I think it would be nice in ME3 if we could help Xen develop something that puts all the geth back under quarian control (renegade option might be human control). Maybe the quarians could do a Trojan horse style move?

I don't even think human control would be necessary.
By putting the geth back under quarian control humanity would have itself a powerful ally.

Yes please. Much as I like Legion, if there's an option to help Xen complete her virus I'm taking it. 

Also, to whoever posted "heaven forbid someone talk out of turn about Tali"...people do. A lot. There's these wonderful things called "opinions" that lead some people to think different about both Tali and the Geth.

Certainly, I've seen plenty of threads that achieve Godwin's Law in record time when it comes to talking about the Morning War and Geth-Quarian conflict. 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 24 avril 2011 - 08:18 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

That's different.

Geth are machines. Children (organic children) are machines, but not in the same category of machine.

[Urdnot Orrad]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

GodWood wrote...

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...
@Godwood I think it would be nice in ME3 if we could help Xen develop something that puts all the geth back under quarian control (renegade option might be human control). Maybe the quarians could do a Trojan horse style move?

I don't even think human control would be necessary.
By putting the geth back under quarian control humanity would have itself a powerful ally.

Yes please. Much as I like Legion, if there's an option to help Xen complete her virus I'm taking it. 

Also, to whoever posted "heaven forbid someone talk out of turn about Tali"...people do. A lot. There's these wonderful things called "opinions" that lead some people to think different about both Tali and the Geth.

Certainly, I've seen plenty of threads that achieve Godwin's Law in record time when it comes to talking about the Morning War and Geth-Quarian conflict. 

YAY! People know about Godwin's Law here! And[ many are tropers! I'm happy... I feel like I belong! ^^

[Ashira Shepard]

You're not seeing my point here.

The Geth can think. They can form opinions. They're intelligent.

No one has the right to take that away, not even those who created them. That's heartless and shows absolutely no regard for the fact that they created self-aware, intelligent life.

Put it this way, let's pretend for a moment that life is in the Assassin's Creed world. Humans were created by an incredibly advanced species that left at some point in our history.

Suddenly they come back and decide that hey! because they created us, they can do what they want. Time to go back to slavery and lose your free will little apes! What? Why are you fighting so hard to stay free? We made you! We can do whatever we want with you!

You see?

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 24 avril 2011 - 08:25 .

[N7 Vanguard]

AshiraShepard wrote...

You're not seeing my point here.

The Geth can think. They can form opinions. They're intelligent.

No one has the right to take that away, not even those who created them. That's heartless and shows absolutely no regard for the fact that they created self-aware, intelligent life.

Put it this way, let's pretend for a moment that life is in the Assassin's Creed world. Humans were created by an incredibly advanced species that left at some point in our history.

Suddenly they come back and decide that hey! because they created us, they can do what they want. Time to go back to slavery and lose your free will little apes! What? Why are you fighting so hard to stay free? We made you! We can do whatever we want with you!

You see?

He probably doesn't. He has quarian hivemind. They are machines!11!!!

[Urdnot Orrad]

AshiraShepard wrote...

You're not seeing my point here.

The Geth can think. They can form opinions. They're intelligent.

No one has the right to take that away, not even those who created them. That's heartless and shows absolutely no regard for the fact that they created self-aware, intelligent life.

Put it this way, let's pretend for a moment that life is in the Assassin's Creed world. Humans were created by an incredibly advanced species that left at some point in our history.

Suddenly they come back and decide that hey! because they created us, they can do what they want. Time to go back to slavery and lose your free will little apes! What? Why are you fighting so hard to stay free? We made you! We can do whatever we want with you!

You see?

This. 100% I'll always side with the geth now that I have a new understanding of the morality of the Morning War. I never agreed with the quarian's aggressive stance in the first p[lace, but this discussion solidifies my position.

[TheBlackBaron]

Urdnot Orrad wrote...
YAY! People know about Godwin's Law here! And[ many are tropers! I'm happy... I feel like I belong! ^^

I'm contractually obligated to name at least one trope in a post per day. Unsurprisingly, I already managed that over in the DA2 forums. 

[Ramirez Wolfen]

@N7 Vanguard Please actually contribute to the thread.

@AshiraShepard Geth are not on the same level as organics.

[Urdnot Orrad]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

@N7 Vanguard Please actually contribute to the thread.

@AshiraShepard Geth are not on the same level as organics.

Who says? They have sentience, that's enough for me. YOU, SIR, ARE RACIST!!!!

(I intentionally did that, fer lulz. But honestly, I don;t understand your position here, man...)

[Urdnot Orrad]

TheBlackBaron wrote...

Urdnot Orrad wrote...
YAY! People know about Godwin's Law here! And[ many are tropers! I'm happy... I feel like I belong! ^^

I'm contractually obligated to name at least one trope in a post per day. Unsurprisingly, I already managed that over in the DA2 forums. 

YAY! I actually name multiple tropes a day while at school most of the time... I can't help myself.

Modifié par Urdnot Orrad, 24 avril 2011 - 08:36 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Having sentience doesn't entitle one to rights, especially if that sentience is a mistake (my opinion).

[N7 Vanguard]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

@N7 Vanguard Please actually contribute to the thread.

@AshiraShepard Geth are not on the same level as organics.

I have contributed a lot to this thread actually. Your main argument is they are machines and thus a lesser being than us, even though they have sythetic muscles and bleed like anything else. When something can ask the question "Am I alive?" they have self awareness.  Hell, they even mourn the loss of the quarians in the morning war, and take care of the planets for the eventual return of the quarians.

[Ashira Shepard]

If a rock was self aware and able to have an intelligent conversation with me I wouldn't use it to level the table or as a brick. I'd certainly check my drinks a lot more after it but I wouldn't be a heartless monster just because it isn't the same as me.

A being can be aware and doesn't need to be conventionally 'alive' to be 'real.' It's still a form of existence, obscure life.

There is no justification for treating an aware being differently just for not having a heartbeat or brainwaves as we understand them.

I'd like to know what exactly makes organics so damn special that some of us believe oursleves in the right when treating synthetic beings like tools.

You can't have a conversation with a power drill. You can with a Geth.

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 24 avril 2011 - 08:39 .