270 réponses à ce sujet

[Urdnot Orrad]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Having sentience doesn't entitle one to rights, especially if that sentience is a mistake (my opinion).

... What? Dude... what the HELL is wrong with you? You do realize that that same condition you're talking about-- the stripping away of rights even with sentience-- could be very easily applied to you, don't you?

You wouldn't have such a stance if you were the one without rights, I guarantee you.

[didymos1120]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Having sentience doesn't entitle one to rights, especially if that sentience is a mistake (my opinion).

What does then?  Being made of mostly water, various carbon-based polymers, and a dash of other elements?

[Ramirez Wolfen]

@AshiraShepard What makes organics special? We are unique. Each person is different, something that can't be created again. Geth can be recreated exactly the same. That's not unique.

[Urdnot Orrad]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

@AshiraShepard What makes organics special? We are unique. Each person is different, something that can't be created again. Geth can be recreated exactly the same. That's not unique.

Every geth program is unique, man... or did you just not bother talking to Legion and finding this stuff out?

[Ramirez Wolfen]

You can recreate geth (and no I'm not talking about the platforms).

[Geth_Prime]

Well, I hate heretics. I love geth though. How could you not love Legion?!

After we destroy the Reapers I want to let the geth carry on building their superstructure in peace. They have done nothing wrong.

[Urdnot Orrad]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

You can recreate geth (and no I'm not talking about the platforms).

The geth make backups of each individual program. That doesn't mean that those programs being backed-up are not unique. And you didn't answer my last statement, the one about your rights.

[didymos1120]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

You can recreate geth (and no I'm not talking about the platforms).

Individual programs yes.  So what? That doesn't make the various associations they form non-unique for so long as they're together.  Nor does that make the entire collective and its history any less unique.  And if you wiped all their memories and let the runtimes wake up again, you would not get the same geth as before.  They would have a very different, new  history and be changed as a result. And they also can't be necessarily recreated: they're vulnerable in their own way to destruction, including their memories and the code specific to an individual runtime.

ETA: this is kinda like saying that because our individual cells can duplicate themselves, that we're therefore not unique.  Only geth runtimes are far more complex cognitively than our cells.

Modifié par didymos1120, 24 avril 2011 - 08:55 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

@Urdnot Orrad That's exactly what makes them not unique, the fact that they have a back up that's exactly the same. Also, be patient, I can't make responses that fast. I actually have to think.....

But to answer it:

Like I said organics =/= machines

[Ashira Shepard]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

You can recreate geth (and no I'm not talking about the platforms).

Legion developes during his time among the Normandy crew.

There's is one particular instance where he says "I" rather than "we."

"In the time it takes you to blink, I can review all my time spent on the Normandy."

Legion is effected by his time spent around the group, in battle he makes illogical noises, crying out in garbled words and "pain" when he's shot at. If he supposedly cannot feel pain, why does he make that noise? Those around him make noise when hurt. He learns it's helpful to notify his team mates if he's been damaged? He learns that it's the correct response? He's unwittingly 'learning' to react more organically?

You would not be able to recreate Legion.

More to the point: if you re-write the Geth, every single one of your squad mates will comment on how re-writing them is no better than killing them - because you've changed the Geth and they are no longer who they were before, gone forever.

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 24 avril 2011 - 08:56 .

[Ramirez Wolfen]

@AshiraShepard

Legion feeling pain? Plot hole or Bioware was trying to make Legion more "human"

[didymos1120]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Like I said organics =/= machines

Yes they are.  They're just rather inefficient, highly vulnerable made-of-meat machines.

[Ashira Shepard]

I never said he felt pain. I specifically said that if he "supposedly cannot feel pain" and listed other reasons for his illogical behaviour.

Being "damaged" and feeling "pain" can be seperate things you know.

Modifié par AshiraShepard, 24 avril 2011 - 08:57 .

[Urdnot Orrad]

AshiraShepard wrote...

I never said he felt pain. I specifically said that if he "supposedly cannot feel pain" and listed other reasons for his illogical behaviour.

Being "damaged" and feeling "pain" can be seperate things you know.

I'm beginning to think he's trolling here... because he said "plot hole or Bioware did it?" To me, he's no longer doing an in-universe perspective of a debate, he's bringing meta examples in to try and prove his point, in the way of talking about Bioware... and not trying to place others in the shoes of the geth, like us.

[Ramirez Wolfen]

Also why I said Bioware was trying to make Legion more human.

[Antivenger]

Bringing Bioware into this? Cus you know, anyone could just yell out "Hey, dudes and dudettes, it's a friggin' game, Geth don't really exist!"

The only thing I want from the Geth is to see a female-shaped platform. This game has too many dudes, I think.

Modifié par Antivenger, 24 avril 2011 - 09:04 .

[didymos1120]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Also why I said Bioware was trying to make Legion more human.

Gee, and what might that mean IN UNIVERSE?

[Ramirez Wolfen]

@Urdnot Orrad

This is why I'm a little reluctant to discuss this topic, since my opinion is different from others, I'm accused of trolling. I'm not trying to attack Bioware.

[Urdnot Orrad]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

Also why I said Bioware was trying to make Legion more human.

And what would be so wrong about that?

Okay... let me use Terminator 2 as an example. By the end of it, the T-800 actually feels emotion, and apparently has sentience. You're saying it's still just a machine that should be considered a workhorse and shouldn't have rights?

On a related note, ever seen Bicentennial Man? It's about a robot that embarks on a 200 year quest to become human... and he succeeds.

[N7 Vanguard]

Antivenger wrote...

Bringing Bioware into this? Cus you know, anyone could just yell out "Hey, dudes and dudettes, it's a friggin' game, Geth don't really exist!"

The only thing I want from the Geth is to see a female-shaped platform. This game has too many dudes, I think.

Haha lets get  some female turians, salarians, etc. in before we do that.

[Urdnot Orrad]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

@Urdnot Orrad

This is why I'm a little reluctant to discuss this topic, since my opinion is different from others, I'm accused of trolling. I'm not trying to attack Bioware.

No no no. You've gone this far without being accused a troll. It's just that as this debate went on and you staunchly seemed to refuse even considering these viewpoints we've presented, I've begun to suspect you aren't even being genuine.

[Ashathor]

If I had a choice between saving 1 organic or 10 non-heretic geth I would pretty much save the organic. I like geth but they're not organic. Well if it was a vorcha or batarian I would save the geth but otherwise organics win.

P.S I think legion "feeling pain" in combat is really just like shooting the heretics and the noises they make. It's like shooting a jolt through a geth so they make a jumbled mash of noise which in essence is like saying "error" or something like that. They don't feel "pain" but rather they register damage and their "voice-box" or whatever makes noises similar to a computer making wierd noises during EXTREAMLY bad crashes and the like.

Modifié par Ashathor, 24 avril 2011 - 09:13 .

[Alienmorph]

Personally, I want save both Geths and Quarians, but knowing Bioware it's possible that you'll be even able to doom both the species. Off course then I don't know what chances of victory you'll can hope to have against the reapers, without the two biggest fleets of the whole galaxy at your side, but still...

[Seboist]

Ashathor wrote...

If I had a choice between saving 1 organic or 10 non-heretic geth I would pretty much save the organic. I like geth but they're not organic. Well if it was a vorcha or batarian I would save the geth but otherwise organics win.

That was a racist statement. Vorcha are good people.

[Ashira Shepard]

Urdnot Orrad wrote...

On a related note, ever seen Bicentennial Man? It's about a robot that embarks on a 200 year quest to become human... and he succeeds.

Oh I love that film!

I totally didn't cry at the end either. Nope. Not at all...

...

...

Okay yeah