211 réponses à ce sujet

[Soilborn88]

Night Prowler76 wrote...

Soilborn88 wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...

Soilborn88 wrote...

By the time The Witcher 2 comes out the only people left playing DA2 will be console gamers.

Sorry but it's true. The Witcher 2 is going to blow DA2 out of the water and is one of the most anticpated games of the year.

And giving that CD Projekt had no corrupted influence of console gamers they are sticking to traditional PC RPG roots, while adopting the suggestions from the "PC" community. 

Oh for the love of god, take your PC elitist crap elsewhere. And this is coming from someone who only plays on PC.

I'm just telling the truth. Console gamers look at RPGs different than most PC gamers do. Look what happened to Dragon Age 2 for example.

Secondly I want to play PC games, not Console games made for PC. It's not to much to ask really. PC gamers act this way because we're always alienated, and I will continue to express myself and my opinions just like you CONSOLE GAMERS DO by constantly calling us eltist.

Go cry moar.

It may apprear the game is geared to console gamers, which it is I guess, but honestly, most console gamers dont think DA2 is that good, I wouldnt blame console players for design choices made by BioWare, this console gamer is displeased=]

Bioware made the mistake of trying to appeal to players that weren't familiar with the genre, and as a result DA2 ended up as a Action/Adventure/RPG that failed at all three.

The consantly swarming enemies, exploding bodies, button mashing and all that jazz was fun at first but after about 10+ hours of that crap it gets REALLY old REALLY fast. 

There's really not much EXPLORING to do since you're stuck in a single city the entire game, with recycled dungeons over and over - at first this wasn't an issue because people were so hyped over DA2, but after seeing the same dungeon layout 15+ times in only a few hours it gets annoying.

Lastly RPG elements were ripped from the game with the terrible character creation, with the first core idea to Western RPGs was the character creation such as selection of a race, a background and etc. You get to chose neither, only sex and class and are forced to play the role of Hawke. Let's not forget no immersion what so ever, TERRIBLE item and looting system, I mean finding a Rogue Ring that does 3% fire damage instead of doing something you know, Rougish?

Bioware had a good track record up until now. I'm 100% positive I have no intention of ever pre-ordering a game of theirs again.

Modifié par Soilborn88, 24 avril 2011 - 10:30 .

[SirShreK]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

OK, snyde comment:

Do we think a Bethesda RPG will have the ability to use ladders this decade?

ME 3 WILL NOT FEATURE HORSES.

[Zeus_Deus]

SirShreK wrote...

Epona222 wrote...

freche wrote...
It will use the same **** Oblivion use, it will have as bad animation & story as Oblivion and FO3 had.
Since it uses the same engine as they have used before it will be as unstable as the rest of their games and with Bethesdas history of fixing bugs, it will probably be more unstable the more they try to fix things.

It is not using the same engine.

You are technically right.

Reagardless, they are cutting down on attribute system altogether in order to 'Streamline' (panic button) the game. Now it is TRUE that the attribute system was SHI*T anyway in the TES games post-Daggerfall with huge exploits possible in combination with the enchantment system (Over 9000 points in mercantile == Everything ~ free). 

I would rather they improve it than eliminate it, but nothing of value may be lost. 

Skyrim will have only 3 attributes (Health, Magicka and Fatigue), but I can understand why that decision was made - I mean why raise Intelligence to raise Magicka when you can raise Magicka directly?

[Zjarcal]

Soilborn88 wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...
And this is coming from someone who only plays on PC.

...just like you CONSOLE GAMERS DO by constantly calling us eltist.

Go cry moar.

Perhaps you missed the part in my post where I said that I ONLY play on PC.

And no, I won't cry, I'll go play some more DA2 on my PC.

[sympathy4saren]

http://m.youtube.com...h?v=PjqsYzBrP-M

If the link doesn't show up, copy/paste the URL. Can DA2 compete with this?

[Fallstar]

People say the Elder Scrolls can't tell a story. Bull. If you took all the codices and background from DA it wouldn't reach even 10 percent of the amount of lore in TES. It's just that in TES you have to find the books and actually read them. Shocking I know. The one thing origins does better than TES is companions. As for DA2, I can't think of anything. So yeah, DA2 doesn't stand a chance, when you consider what a classic oblivion is, with the huge TES fanbase built up over 4 games, there isn't really any contest.

[Fallstar]

Also as far as I'm aware, skyrim still meets my definition of an rpg; the ability to create a character who I can role-play. This is not in Da2.

[Soilborn88]

Zjarcal wrote...

Soilborn88 wrote...

Zjarcal wrote...
And this is coming from someone who only plays on PC.

...just like you CONSOLE GAMERS DO by constantly calling us eltist.

Go cry moar.

Perhaps you missed the part in my post where I said that I ONLY play on PC.

And no, I won't cry, I'll go play some more DA2 on my PC.

Have fun.

[slimgrin]

Skyrim hasn't been rushed. It's been in developement far longer, about 4 yrs I think. And The Elder Scrolls is a venerated series with four succesfull iterations. Dragon Age bombed its second time out. Bioware had their chance, they f*ckin blew it. I love DA:O, but their franchise doesn't hold a candle to TES. It doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence.

Mass Effect is clearly Bioware's baby, not Dragon Age. I think DA fans need to realize this.

[Soilborn88]

SirLogical wrote...

People say the Elder Scrolls can't tell a story. Bull. If you took all the codices and background from DA it wouldn't reach even 10 percent of the amount of lore in TES. It's just that in TES you have to find the books and actually read them. Shocking I know. The one thing origins does better than TES is companions. As for DA2, I can't think of anything. So yeah, DA2 doesn't stand a chance, when you consider what a classic oblivion is, with the huge TES fanbase built up over 4 games, there isn't really any contest.

You also have to go and do things such as, talk to people in order to learn more about what's going on in the world and lore.

[Night Prowler76]

slimgrin wrote...

Skyrim hasn't been rushed. It's been in developement far longer, about 4 yrs I think. And The Elder Scrolls is a venerated series with four succesfull iterations. Dragon Age bombed its second time out. Bioware had their chance, they f*ckin blew it. I love DA:O, but their franchise doesn't hold a candle to TES. It doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence.

Mass Effect is clearly Bioware's baby, not Dragon Age. I think DA fans need to realize this.

I agree that ME is BioWare's baby to a point, but isnt it a Trilogy? If it is, they will have to rely more on DA and KOTOR etc.

[SOLID_EVEREST]

Even though I hated everything about Fallout 3, TES: is a great Bethesda series. When Bethesda uses their bland storyline laid around a well designed area followed by an amazing soundtrack, magic happens. They make horrible stories and even the codecs were badly written. I remember reading a book in Oblivion about a war, and it was so terrible I almost feel asleep. Anyways, Skyrim looks amazing and I hope it captivates me like Oblivion did.

When Bethesda took over Fallout, they did more damage because Fallout has a story to tell while TES series doesn't. Fallout belongs to companies like Obsidian who are at the epitomey of storytelling in modern RPGs because they are so flexible. I just hope that Dungeon Siege 3 is good enough to help me wait for Skyrim (was initially supposed to be DA: 2, but that didn't go so well).

[SirShreK]

SOLID_EVEREST wrote...

Even though I hated everything about Fallout 3, TES: is a great Bethesda series. When Bethesda uses their bland storyline laid around a well designed area followed by an amazing soundtrack, magic happens. They make horrible stories and even the codecs were badly written. I remember reading a book in Oblivion about a war, and it was so terrible I almost feel asleep. Anyways, Skyrim looks amazing and I hope it captivates me like Oblivion did.

When Bethesda took over Fallout, they did more damage because Fallout has a story to tell while TES series doesn't. Fallout belongs to companies like Obsidian who are at the epitomey of storytelling in modern RPGs because they are so flexible. I just hope that Dungeon Siege 3 is good enough to help me wait for Skyrim (was initially supposed to be DA: 2, but that didn't go so well).

I suggest you root for TW2.

[jmbrosendo]

I have a different opinion than those claiming Bethesda can't tell a story. I don't need a bunch of fancy cutscenes, great voice acting, or some visually stunning, heartbreaking moment to enjoy a plot.

It adds a whole a new level to the experience, that is true.

But before Oblivion, both Daggerfall and Morrowind had very good, deep, lore rich tales. Problem was, that instead of getting some voice acting and a pause in cutscene, you actually had to, read paragraphs. Daggerfall told a very complex story of betrayal, adultery, political intrigue, court manipulation, sorcery, espionage and ultimately an epic tale with the source of the Emperor's rise to power, and The Underking. You just had to read it.

Daggerfall also set the basically the lore for the sequels. It had an infinity of books, written by fans and added to the game, such as the unofficial and18+ biography of Queen Barenziah. These same books are ported over to Morrowind , but not all. Morrowind follows the same line, with an evolving story about a prophecy whose mysteries get slowly unraveled, involving the real source of Vivec's power, a complex tale of ancient betrayals, wars, that ends with you.

Again, you had to read it, and enjoy it.

Oblivion was "the demons are coming, find the bastard, close the gates, kill cultist." With voice acting. They spared you from having to go through paragraphs, it was very cinematic, with great entertainment value, but the richness of the stories in their previous games was lost to quick, instant gratification. Because reading was boring, and voice acting expensive.

Based on Oblivion alone, I agree somewhat with you, but Bethesda is capable of and has been in the past, of producing a good quality, complex storyline with twists and depth. Sorry for the vagueness but I tried to avoid spoiling anything in case you never played any of these games.

[laudable11]

slimgrin wrote...

Skyrim hasn't been rushed. It's been in developement far longer, about 4 yrs I think. And The Elder Scrolls is a venerated series with four succesfull iterations. Dragon Age bombed its second time out. Bioware had their chance, they f*ckin blew it. I love DA:O, but their franchise doesn't hold a candle to TES. It doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence.

Mass Effect is clearly Bioware's baby, not Dragon Age. I think DA fans need to realize this.

I liked DA2 but I think you might be right about Mass Effect being thier crown jewel.

[Jim_uk]

Fallout 3 has given me a little more hope for Skyrim, they do seem to be moving in the right direction. I wouldn't want to chance it on a console but on the PC it can be rescued by the community just as Oblivion was.

[Anathemic]

SirLogical wrote...

People say the Elder Scrolls can't tell a story. Bull. If you took all the codices and background from DA it wouldn't reach even 10 percent of the amount of lore in TES. It's just that in TES you have to find the books and actually read them. Shocking I know. The one thing origins does better than TES is companions. As for DA2, I can't think of anything. So yeah, DA2 doesn't stand a chance, when you consider what a classic oblivion is, with the huge TES fanbase built up over 4 games, there isn't really any contest.

No one is debating the lore, it's the story Bethesda usually falls short at. Story and Lore are two different things. The Latter being context and the former being presentation.

Looking at Oblivion, it was really anti climatic, the main quest was really short and at the end you really are "tagging along for the ride" while a side character wtpwns a Daedric Prince, not really inducing epic feel here.

[_Motoki_]

SirLogical wrote...

People say the Elder Scrolls can't tell a story. Bull. If you took all the codices and background from DA it wouldn't reach even 10 percent of the amount of lore in TES. It's just that in TES you have to find the books and actually read them. Shocking I know. The one thing origins does better than TES is companions. As for DA2, I can't think of anything. So yeah, DA2 doesn't stand a chance, when you consider what a classic oblivion is, with the huge TES fanbase built up over 4 games, there isn't really any contest.

I love the TES lore. I have read most of it. Even obscure stuff from Bethesda staff Roleplaying forum posts. As I said, I think the 2920 series of in-game books in particular is amazing. I am in no way deriding the lore.

It's just that I would really like to have someone interesting or memorable to talk to once in a while while I am playing a game. I can just as easily get good stories reading books. For games I would like them to be a little more intereactive and in particular I enjoy memorable characters, which is something that made DA:O so great for me.

I am not saying there are not interesting things to see and do in TES games, there are. I just think the dialog is one area that has always been a weak spot for them and I always found myself wishing they spent more effort in that area. I am not exaggerating when I say I have played NES games with more memorable character dialog than the dialog in TES games.

jmbrosendo wrote...

But before Oblivion, both Daggerfall and Morrowind had very good, deep, lore rich tales. Problem was, that instead of getting some voice acting and a pause in cutscene, you actually had to, read paragraphs. Daggerfall told a very complex story of betrayal, adultery, political intrigue, court manipulation, sorcery, espionage and ultimately an epic tale with the source of the Emperor's rise to power, and The Underking. You just had to read it.

Daggerfall also set the basically the lore for the sequels. It had an infinity of books, written by fans and added to the game, such as the unofficial and18+ biography of Queen Barenziah. These same books are ported over to Morrowind , but not all. Morrowind follows the same line, with an evolving story about a prophecy whose mysteries get slowly unraveled, involving the real source of Vivec's power, a complex tale of ancient betrayals, wars, that ends with you.

Again, you had to read it, and enjoy it.

I will agree that Daggerfall and Morrowind had and interesting plot but I still feel for the actual dialog that you get directly from the characters it was rather weak compared to most other RPGs. This is why modders created things like the Less Generic NPC project for Morrowind which I felt helped loads to flesh out that world.

Fully voiced games make doing something like that a lot more difficult for the modding community so you basically have to get decent dialog from the publisher or else it just stays completely generic.

I think the interesting plots of Daggerfall and Morrowind made up a fair bit for the rather lackluster, unmemorable character dialog. The problem with Oblivion was that not only was the dialog weak as it was in all TES games, but the plot itself was weak and the setting was, IMO, generic and dull.

Modifié par _Motoki_, 25 avril 2011 - 12:35 .

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

TES narratives are decent at best (Morrowind) and appalling at worst (Oblivion).

The writing is bad all around, unless it's in one of the in-game books. Which is odd.

The Elder Scrolls lore and universe is amongst the most fleshed out and interesting I've ever seen but, and here is the great (imo) part of it, only if you take the time and effort to look for it. On the surface, it's relatively generic. But once you scratch that surface, you'll find plenty of hidden gems.

It's a game that encourages you to learn more. Not for the sake of the storyline, but for the sake of bringing depth to the universe. Which is great. It's not an RPG element, but it makes the game all the more interesting. It's also the most Elven-centric universe I've ever seen. The Orcs are Elves, Dwarves are Elves and there's at least 3 kinds of Elvish Elves.

But again, it excels in that area because of the type of game that it is. I don't think it's fair to expect Bioware games to offer the same level of exploration and lore when it's game world isn't as open and sandboxy as the Elder Scrolls games. On the same token, Bioware games will always have more engaging narratives, storylines and characters because of the type of games they make.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 25 avril 2011 - 12:35 .

[Anathemic]

mrcrusty wrote...

TES narratives are decent at best (Morrowind) and appalling at worst (Oblivion).

The writing is bad all around, unless it's in one of the in-game books. Which is odd.

The Elder Scrolls lore and universe is amongst the most fleshed out and interesting I've ever seen but, and here is the great (imo) part of it, only if you take the time and effort to look for it. On the surface, it's relatively generic. But once you scratch that surface, you'll find plenty of hidden gems.

It's a game that encourages you to learn more. Not for the sake of the storyline, but for the sake of bringing depth to the universe. Which is great. It's not an RPG element, but it makes the game all the more interesting. It's also the most Elven-centric universe I've ever seen. The Orcs are Elves, Dwarves are Elves and there's at least 3 kinds of Elvish Elves.

But again, it excels in that area because of the type of game that it is. I don't think it's fair to expect Bioware games to offer the same level of exploration and lore when it's game world isn't as open and sandboxy as the Elder Scrolls games. On the same token, Bioware games will always have more engaging narratives, storylines and characters because of the type of games they make.

I agree, this is what makes the Elder Scrolls series so intriguing, my first time playing Elder Scrolls (which was Oblivion, went back and palyed Morrowind) I was surprised at the huge amount of lore I found both in game and on the UESP.

Every game really does give an epic feel for with each installment you know that there's more unexplored areas out there, lore untouched, and more lore to discover. Perfect feature for a Sandbox RPG.

[orbit991]

I'm not to sure Skyrim is going to be that much better, there is already quite a bit of 'streamlining" and Bethesda has been terrible with scripts. Still their games can be altered into anything you want as good as their construction set is. Right now my money is on the Witcher 2 and crossing my fingers for Skyrim to be better then what I have heard so far.

[Gatt9]

Il Divo wrote...
Beyond, of course, development of RAI which some might consider a good step forward in the sandbox department. The feature itself was brilliant, unfortunately it came at a cost.

This is actually a good example of what I'm talking about.  Bethseda spends so much time patting themselves on the back and trumpting about how they "Innovated a new AI!!",  all the while ignoring that it had been done long before,  in 1985. 

Lord British implemented their grand plan in 1985 on a Commodore 64,  with a 1mhz processor,  and 32 kilobytes of useable memory.  Ultima had day & night schedules,  with people who followed paths to and from work based upon it.  Which is pretty much all "Radiant AI!" is,  The program checks the ingame clock,  and if it is set for some number,  the AI moves along a predestined path to another destination.

It's also completely useless.  Chasing the AI around a building as he follows a path to another room,  just to turn in a quest item,  isn't a step forward.  It doesn't add anything to the game. 

Aside from that,   Day/Night cycles have existed in RPGs for years.  Bethseda didn't bring anything new,  or worthy,  to the table with it.  It was wasted resources to implement something that didn't improve the game in any significant way,  when the game was already desperately berefet of anything to do.

Bioware and their continued experiments in NPC interaction are a great deal more innovative than anything Bethseda's brought to the table.  Games are just fine without every fork being rendered in 3D and chasing people around for 20 minutes to end a quest.

Skyrim will have only 3 attributes (Health, Magicka and Fatigue), but I can understand why that decision was made - I mean why raise Intelligence to raise Magicka when you can raise Magicka directly?

Because the whole point to Intelligence is to affect a great deal more in an RPG than just raising mana.  It's supposed to affect everything from figuring out magic items,  figuring out complicated puzzles/traps,  conversation,  and many other things.

The problem is,  Bethseda hates RPG mechanics,  they like Action games (Action adventure,  Shooters),  and so they remove pretty much all of the things that Stats are supposed to do.  Then they turn around and claim "They don't do anything!"

Well yeah,  you took it all out.  They need to go play an RPG,  and see why those things are there.  They might even want to start out by playing Fallout 1&2,  to see how badly they screwed up,  and what those stats exist for.

That's the problem with Bethseda,  they hate RPGs,  and they consistently show they don't understand them.  "There's no reason for stats!",  no,  there's no reason at all for them in an adventure game or a shooter.  An RPG,  OTOH,  needs them.

[Setsunayaki]

Elder Scrolls 4 was known by computer enthusiasts as the first game that had an HDR implementation. This technology allowed for the color range to extend from 8 bit (256) to 10-bit (1024.)

Under the hood to those without an HDR video card, the game appeared like a normal game (in fact a bit worse) but with a full HDR card the game itself came alive graphically. It looked like almost no other game out there and had a physics engine. Of course the game demanded a lot of resources, but the game was really modifiable. In fact the settings which existed in the GUI-Interface in-game with the sliders were only half the maximum settings. Players could go through the configuration files themselves and change the settings to a level far beyond the slider level.

I won't judge Skyrim until its released.

All I can say is that although I liked Dragon Age II, the first game had a better setting for a background story, which of course became the background story for future games. I did like the little changes here and there about the Hero of Ferelden.

Role-playing means "to act out" and interesting enough if you want to become a "role player" professionally there is a college major associated with such a field. Its called "theater arts."

What Bethesda actually does is create a complete, non-linear world for its players and let players live in that world. Each time they make a game they improve upon the experiment with Radiant AI being in the last game. What Bethesda needs to do is actually hire more than five voice actors to roleplay all the NPCs and they actually need to focus a little more on interraction with characters to improve upon their experiment.

I like Bethesda's experiment because it allows you to go through a game a wide multiple of ways. You literally can create your character's story and have fun with it. You don't need to do everything each and everytime, just what you need to advance your character.

[thatbwoyblu]

This General section sure is dead LMFAO ROFL. Guess the goldie oldie bwoys grew tired of complaining finally.

[sympathy4saren]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Sorry guys. Dark Souls will rape Skyrim to Hell where Satan will have sex with it for eternity. It's a 2011 release too and it's the spiritual successor to Demon's Souls. Want a hardcore RPG? Dark Souls is the place to be. I spit on TES. *Spit* I wouldn't even look at it. classes have been removed from Skyrim, so you people looking for a non-dumbed down RPG will probably be upset with Skyrim. I couldn't care about their empty open world.

And if we compare Skyrim to Origins, Skyrim will be absolutely destroyed. Character interaction in all TES games suck hard.

This post actually made me laugh. Let me start out by saying that I'm also interested in Dark Souls, and I can't wait to learn more about it.

That being said, you think an Elder Scrolls game is dumbed down compared to DAO and Dark Souls/Demon Souls? Lol. Really? In Demon Souls, do they even have alchemy? Is their loot system anywhere near Oblivion's?

I didn't read at all there will be no classes in Skyrim, but I did read that you can allocate skill points wherever you want, and aren't restricted. Furthermore, you cannot level up if you spread out your points, so it is an incentive to specialize and focus on certain traits. Each level, 1-50, comes with increases in health, magicka and stamina, and levels after 50 get harder to reach and progress slowly.

How is that dumbing down? What, not being labeled into a class (if that is in fact the case) in your statistics is dumbing down? You have to select everything yourself and can choose fully where you want attributes to go.

I'm a Battle Mage. I can't wait to unleash one of the 85 different spells, seeing the spell in my hand, duel wielding ice and fire. Or health drain 10 seconds at 15% damage up to 25 feet. Or to check out the hundreds of different weapons I collect through looting, or any loot, in a zoomable, rotatable, detailed 3D image. Or my spell effects affect the world, like grass burning after I unleash a spell.

I can't wait until Radiant Story switches it up on me, giving me a different experience from others. Or to farm or to make my own weapons at a blacksmith. Or to play any number of the hundreds of sidequests and main quests. Or to explore and farm any number of the hundreds upon hundreds of dungeons, caves and forts.

I wonder where ill own my home, a place to sleep when I want to level up, to systematically store my loot in its closets, drawers, dressers and tables. It'll probably be near a church...I can cure any disease I contract fairly easy that way... if I have no potion, spell manifold or ingredients to create one through alchemy. I'm not a big alchemist...sometimes ill create a restore magicka potion if I'm in a fix during a fight....

You must have a blind hatred for The Elder Scrolls....it improves on absolutely everything from Oblivion, incorporates innovation from other games, innovates on its own, goes above and beyond as far as attention to quality. Skyrim is going to blow your mind. There is so much going on, so much to do...your mind couldn't handle it.

Oh wait...but little ghosts can't leave me a message, or come into my dimension for a boss battle.

Uh huh. Lol. Who cares?

Modifié par sympathy4saren, 25 avril 2011 - 03:23 .