56 réponses à ce sujet

[robotnist]

let me affirm that im NOT against MMOs, just the market crashing with 20 coming out. i have 4 installed as we speak- age of conan. LotRO (my fave!!!), aion and EQ2 (for the mrs...)



lets just hope that by bioware releasing this game, hopefully they make a ******-ton of money and "right the ship" so to speak. maybe even out the development cycles of games coming out like 10 CRPGs and 10 MMOs as opposed to 17 MMOs and 3 CRPGs, gnaw mean?



also, i have debated overlong about DLC, what its worth etc, let me just try and sum it up here-



horse armor= evil

brotherhood of steel= holy (the fallout 3 DLC that added an increased level cap from 20 to 30 and many new skills)



i would gladly pay for content as released just like it was done for fallout 3. i think FO3 is a great example of the kind of money that developers/publishers can go for that competes with the MMO market and ultimately we the customer get more value IMO.



because instead of a necessary purchase every month that ONLY allows us to play a game we already paid full price for, we get to pick and choose the content we want and play whenever we like!!!



i just hope that the new precedent set by this game is duly noted by the financial community that pays developers for new ideas and henceforth fun new CRPGs to play.



also, its worth bringing up for me its VERY important to be able to play an MMO to the end solo. now i understand that this is a kind of unpopular gaming ethic, and i understand that most of the fun MMOs bring to the table should be shared with friends. but having the option to play alone if you cant find others is important, and i like the way SWToR is looking.



LotRO does it well, DDO does it great. (allowing for the hiring of hirelings).



from what i read about SWToR, it seems to me we will have a loosely similar structure to, say that of a mass effect type story minus the depth of storytelling with the option to co-op the gameplay in a massive fashion. if thats the case, im beyond sold over this new perspective.



i would love to see MMOs going into this direction. but maybe im completely wrong about this and need to research more, and if so im sorry, lol, im a fool.

[Ninjaphrog]

Well what make MMOs better then single player RPGs....



It's online...you get to meet knew friends...many of my old WoW friends are now real life friends...just cause I think you have more of a life doing something with your friends that has a point...like killing a raid boss...instead of going to some sleezy party or bar where 90% are drunk......actually...not too different from MMOs...forget the ending...



You also get frequent updates and maintenance...something you don't get for an RPG...

You never truely beat the game...

Only Matrix Online was the repetitive MMO I've ever encountered...

More content...I played WoW for 5 years and never did the same thing 2 days in a row. Yay for DAO and it's 4 levels of epic crafting failure? I think not.



RPGs are a step down from the awesomeness that is MMOs...if you are not willing to pay for that kind of service, then stay on the 2nd place stand and enjoy your empty NPC worlds...

[SamoanX]

hells yeah

and ninja is a ******

Modifié par SamoanX, 19 novembre 2009 - 08:38 .

[Lughsan35]

Ninjaphrog wrote...

Well what make MMOs better then single player RPGs....

It's online...you get to meet knew friends...many of my old WoW friends are now real life friends...just cause I think you have more of a life doing something with your friends that has a point...like killing a raid boss...instead of going to some sleezy party or bar where 90% are drunk......actually...not too different from MMOs...forget the ending...

You also get frequent updates and maintenance...something you don't get for an RPG...
You never truely beat the game...
Only Matrix Online was the repetitive MMO I've ever encountered...
More content...I played WoW for 5 years and never did the same thing 2 days in a row. Yay for DAO and it's 4 levels of epic crafting failure? I think not.

RPGs are a step down from the awesomeness that is MMOs...if you are not willing to pay for that kind of service, then stay on the 2nd place stand and enjoy your empty NPC worlds...

Bitter part of one now seating table3

[Prexxus]

SWTOR is going to be amazing Hopefully! I just hope they don't make everyone be able to start as a Jedi >.>

Modifié par Prexxus, 19 novembre 2009 - 08:49 .

[Strayko]

Oh, come on. If you're looking for real roleplaying, MMORPG's give you all opportunity to do so. Join a roleplaying server on any major MMORPG, and you'll easily find yourself enthralled by player created storylines, acted out by fellow players. Do try, and enjoy.

[Falklol]

I used to love WoW, played it for 4 years, I've cancelled and re-opened the account dozens of time, hoping to get the same satisfaction as I got in the beginning, but I never get it. I get terribly bored when playing it now, haven't touched it for a while and I'm probably not going to re-open it again. I had some great times with it, in the beginning, but now it just sucks.

I love single-player RPG's though, I get completely immersed in a good RPG, like Dragon Age, and I have a very good time. I loved my first playthrough on Risen, and Dragon Age was ten times more fun. I also love the old RPG's, like Arcanum, I love that game.

Strayko wrote...

Oh, come on. If you're looking for real roleplaying, MMORPG's give you all opportunity to do so. Join a roleplaying server on any major MMORPG, and you'll easily find yourself enthralled by player created storylines, acted out by fellow players. Do try, and enjoy.

I used to play on a roleplaying server in WoW a few years ago, it was actually pretty great, I was a bartender in a Tavern in the city Stormwind, there was a barkeep and two other bartenders that I worked with. Had some great times, the tavern was always packed at night, 15-20 players at once, who'd sit down, buy a drink and share their tales. After a while everyone I was working with quit, and I took over, less people came at night and in the end it was all empty, we had it going full-time for a month though. Great times.

I've roleplayed in the most random games, I used to roleplay pretty hardcore in a game called "The Specialists", you'd never think you could roleplay in a game like that if you saw it, it's a shooter, build on the Half-Life engine, but modders made roleplay maps, big cities with apartments, police departments and all that on dedicated servers. I've never had so much fun in a game as while roleplaying in that game. There was usually 25-32 players at once, there were cops, crime syndicates, all of those things. I used to play a surgeon, and cops/members of the crime syndicates, like the mafia, would come in and I'd treat their wounds. It was pretty awesome.

Modifié par Falklol, 19 novembre 2009 - 09:27 .

[Godeshus]

I agree whole heartedly with the OP. I can`t bash MMORPG's, though, as I've never played a single one. My reasons for this don't only lie with the money aspect, although it is a big deterrent for me, but also because I like to play video games to get away from life, so playing a video game that's full of real life people is sort of counter productive for me.

My big beef with MMO's though doesn't lie in the games themselves, but rather in the shockwave they have created from a capitalistic point of view, pushing aside what I truly love in a video games in order to sate the rise of the interweb folks. I find the internet has given rise to a whole breed of people who were in hiding for the past few millenia. Obviously not everyone, but a lot of people who have really horrible attitudes in mp games are people who would never dare to openly criticize you in real life; people who, if you look at them while walking down the street, turn their eyes to the pavement. Once you remove the necessity for eye contact, it seems that these people feel they have all the power in the world and can finally compete, where as when they were playing baseball in highschool they were the last picked because they can't keep their mind off the atomic wedgie they just got at lunch time. But stereotypes aside, there are a lot of people like this, and MMO's and MP games in general is a perfect habitat for them.

Trying not to be biased, though, it IS nice that there are places where anyone can feel good about themselves when normally they spend their time scared, lonely and bitter. I just don`t like being bashed because I'm not quite as tactically clever as someone else, or because I just picked up a game and am still trying to work out the basics. I simply have no time or energy to waste on taking abuse.

What me and my girlfriend (prety much wife) have been hoping for for the past couple years is a rich mp game, like BGII, where we can set it up on the home lan and play together in a rich, immersive storyline.  The popularity of MMO's have muscled aside this type of gaming experience to almost nothing, and this is what I don't like about them. Hopefully Wastelands will prove to be this game, but after playing DA:O for a while, it would be really cool to bring this aspect to the game, as this it is the type of game we both adore.  Heck, we want it so much that we would play Oblivion on our respective computers and tried to follow the storyline and sidequests together, bouncing tips back and forth, resting at the same time to try and keep the calendar sync'd etc. A little sad, I'll agree, but there it is anyway.

Modifié par Godeshus, 19 novembre 2009 - 09:51 .

[hangmans tree]

Hi, on a related note: I started a topic on OFFTOPIC forum, since it doesnt get much attention I'll advertise it

coz am really interested what others (means you all) think...

http://social.biowar...236801/1#236950

[Emloch]

spectralpulse wrote...

Emloch wrote...

I'm still waiting for the ultimate RPG to come along. Preferably set in the D&D world; an epic game in the fashion of DA:O or Oblivion with online capabilities so a party of you and 3-5 other friends can explore the world and conquer the evil that striikes the land together. Just like a pen and paper D&D session.

I played that game i think it was called Neverwinter Nights.

Anyway I hear the OP. MMO's to me, feel too much like a time sync. Like i'm decaying while life flourishes around me.

I've played Neverwinter Nights but that's not quite I mean. Although that game, somewhat, describes what I mean, I was referrring a game with a more realistic look and with a hands on approach to playstyle (not "click to go here") and more of a sandbox approach to the world which is why I used a couple of examples; DAO and Oblivion.

[Deadly]

If people stop downloading games from internet and start to buy them, perhaps we will see good games once again.

[ItmustBeDONE]

Ninjaphrog wrote...

Well what make MMOs better then single player RPGs....

It's online...you get to meet knew friends...many of my old WoW friends are now real life friends...just cause I think you have more of a life doing something with your friends that has a point...like killing a raid boss...instead of going to some sleezy party or bar where 90% are drunk......actually...not too different from MMOs...forget the ending...

You also get frequent updates and maintenance...something you don't get for an RPG...
You never truely beat the game...
Only Matrix Online was the repetitive MMO I've ever encountered...
More content...I played WoW for 5 years and never did the same thing 2 days in a row. Yay for DAO and it's 4 levels of epic crafting failure? I think not.

RPGs are a step down from the awesomeness that is MMOs...if you are not willing to pay for that kind of service, then stay on the 2nd place stand and enjoy your empty NPC worlds...

The WoW has you.

[balu1982]

I wouldn't mind if anyone spends huge amounts of money per year for MMOs if this didn't mean, that those people don't buy any other games.



When more and more people play MMOs, less people will be buying non-online games.



To put it clearly: WoW already killed many other games, because it is such a huge money sink.



I played WoW for like 3 or 4 years and i thought i enjoyed it. But i actually didn't.

I just wanted to please my urge for more and better gear.



I could have spent all this money for non-repetitive, original games, and that bothers me. Big Time!

[ItmustBeDONE]

Deadly wrote...

If people stop downloading games from internet and start to buy them, perhaps we will see good games once again.

That's simply not true, a lot of cheap moves or decisions, simply reworking resources already present can improve 80% of all games out there. Regardless of the genre.

For instance, combat in DAO, why did they get rid of the combat style found in NWN 1 and KOTOR 1 and 2?

Pointless to do so, they went with the fail style of NWN 2. Big mistake.

No point in that mistake. Not one.

[xcorps]

Yeah, a loss of 50% revenue due to piracy has no effect at all.

[Deadly]

ItmustBeDONE wrote...

Deadly wrote...

If people stop downloading games from internet and start to buy them, perhaps we will see good games once again.

That's simply not true, a lot of cheap moves or decisions, simply reworking resources already present can improve 80% of all games out there. Regardless of the genre.

For instance, combat in DAO, why did they get rid of the combat style found in NWN 1 and KOTOR 1 and 2?

Pointless to do so, they went with the fail style of NWN 2. Big mistake.

No point in that mistake. Not one.

I suppose you are talking about the combat rules from NWN. They were the rules from the table-top game that is D&D, so i think there is some copyright involved. Thhat's my opinion, anyway.

I agree on the playstyle of KOTOR, that was awesome.

But my point was that every year video games companies loss hundreds of millions of dollars (or Euro) because of piracy. That's a lot of money, don't you agree?
I agree on the fact that Bioware and other companies have to administrate better what they create, but if people don't understand that if they want quality things they have to pay, the game industry will continue to act like today.

It's like a robber that steal a car because he can't afford to buy one. If he get caught by the law he will pay. Instead, people that download games from internet will not go into troubles, and the industries suffer this behavior very badly.

And then, we wonder why EA do pay-to-play DLCs. Marvelous.

Sorry for my english.

[Few87]

Testify!!

[LovelyMover]

I can't comment on MMO's anymore, the Spittle Game Test stopped me playing any over a year ago. However, the one I played first, for the longest time, & that cost nothing, was a NWN2 hosted server, that worked well as there were DM's, stuff happened, there was life beyond the grind...Shame but I doubt Bioware will be doing that again.

[FlintlockJazz]

xcorps wrote...

Yeah, a loss of 50% revenue due to piracy has no effect at all.

Link for statistic?

It has been argued that most people who pirate are the type of people who would not buy the game anyway even if you could ensure that there was no way to pirate it, either due to lack of money or simply because they wouldn't bother and would go off and do something else, and that anti-piracy methods just harm the honest consumer.  Most companies are just massaging the statistics in order to justify why they didn't make enough money or to increase control over the product (which limits the honest-paying customer, for example the three-install limit on Spore).

[Sibelius1]

Good post OP.

Mainly due to piracy, online games are the way things will be going from now on I reckon. On the PC anyway.

I don't like MMOs though. I always feel you are rushed through content by people wanting to Min/Max as quickly as possible. I like to take my time when gaming, appreciate the surroundings, take my time over conversations etc, that is not an option in MMOs.

I also have a young baby and a wife to think about, and can't dedicate my life to raiding schedules or guarantee I won't have to go AFK every 10 minutes!

Therefore I would like to see a new genre introduced OSPRPG. Online Single Player RPG.

The fact that you can apparently do 90% of TOR solo, or with companions, seems to suggest it will be a giant step in the that direction.

I have been campaigning tirelessly on the TOR forums for 100% soloability through scaling and rescripting of end game group encounters. Any support to that end would be appreciated. It's a horrible place for a solo gamer to be sometimes 

Modifié par Sibelius1, 23 novembre 2009 - 03:33 .

[Derengard]

Playing online is just fake for proper fiction.

[RPGmom28]

I played EQ for 6 years, EQ2 for 4, SWG, DAOC, and many, many more MMORPGs and seemed to be addicted to them. But always I would randomly retreat for weeks into my offline all-time favorites like Baldur's Gate 2, Morrowind, Neverwinter Nights, etc. Sometimes it was like a crime to my fellow guildmates. I'd log on and get, "Where have you been!?" I felt as though there was something I wasn't getting from MMORPGs that only offline RPGs could provide. Depth, immersion, call it what you like.



Still, I continued playing my online games. It was really all about the friendships I had created while in game, though. In the beginning, Everquest gave me an overwhelming sense of possibility. I was in an RP guild and formed close-knit galpal relationships, some of which continue to this day with letters and phone calls. But that feeling of endless possibility went away eventually and began to turn into a strange sort of hollow sadness when I realized that I had seen the world, had my adventures, told my tales. There was always a new adventure to be had in the scope of another game developer's imagination. And that was why I had to move on.



Still, I hung on to the MMORPG. Lord of the Rings Online kept me for a while. At last, my husband and I decided to try Aion. No offense to those that play it, but Aion killed the MMORPG for me. It was a beautiful world, don't get me wrong. But it was also a world filled with massive amounts of bots and spammers constantly pushing you out of the way and making quests difficult or impossible to complete. There was a sense of aggression there that I've never encountered before. And I realized that it was just another hack and slash MMORPG that had become contaminated by corrupt, pushy salespeople. I logged out to play my beloved RPGs.



Dragon Age reminded me of my DnD loving roots. Both of my parents are DnD players, and when they fly out to visit me here in Arizona, we often get out the dice and throw something together again. When I play this game I am reminded of the "good old days"- KOTOR, BG, etc. Making tough decisions. Learning about and influencing party members and making your mark on a world. A good dungeon crawl. The feeling that today you are going to get up and create a character just the way you imagine her. This is the sort of thing that I thrive upon. It also makes me signing up for another MMORPG an impossibility at this time. It makes me look over my old collection and lick my chops. Should I reinstall The Witcher today? Oblivion, perhaps? Or play Dragon Age until the cows come home? The latter option is quite likely.

[Emryc]

Roleplaying.



The act of playing a role.



You know what's roleplaying on a MMORPG? Staying in character, interacting with other people (which may or may not include combat with said other people) and staying in character some more. To pretend you're that devonair highwayman who preys on lonely blacksmiths and gropes those lovely ladies who come in your way. To play that devout priest who fights for his Deity's honour and to eradicate the heathen opposition.



To roleplay in a MMORPG is to play a character in a story taking place in a specific setting without a overarching story of a 'chosen one', whom you know in the back of your head is everyone. To roleplay in a MMORPG is not an endless series of 'kill twenty rats' before moving on to killing possessed possums.



To roleplay in CRPG is to participate in a set story, but to have choices that still affect the outcome. It's less dynamic, sure, but if the story is great and you have just a little bit of imagination, it's still a great ride. DA:O, like all of Bioware's crpg's, do this well.



But MMORPG's are rarely actual role playing games. For every roleplayer you meet, there are fifty jackasses called 'xxxSephirothRoxxx who just grind and act retarded.



That's why I miss, for example, the private 'shards'/communities of, again for example, Ultima Online. Communities where that role playing spirit still lives.



I just had to rant.

[xcorps]

FlintlockJazz wrote...

xcorps wrote...

Yeah, a loss of 50% revenue due to piracy has no effect at all.

Link for statistic?

It has been argued that most people who pirate are the type of people who would not buy the game anyway even if you could ensure that there was no way to pirate it, either due to lack of money or simply because they wouldn't bother and would go off and do something else, and that anti-piracy methods just harm the honest consumer.  Most companies are just massaging the statistics in order to justify why they didn't make enough money or to increase control over the product (which limits the honest-paying customer, for example the three-install limit on Spore).

"The ESA's Anti-Piracy Program is designed to combat entertainment software piracy in the United States and certain countries around the world.  Global piracy is estimated to have cost the U.S. entertainment software industry over $3.0 billion in 2007, not including losses attributable to Internet piracy."

"
Crysis Warhead (released Sept. 16 2008):

Crysis Warhead Multi-11 Full-Rip Skullptura - 84,139
Crysis Warhead MULTi10 CLONEDVD-iMMXpC - 54,029
Crysis Warhead-RELOADED - 36,240
Crysis WarHead 2008 - 29,836
CrYsis Warhead [MULTi10][CLONEDVD][FullGame][CrackIncl] KaYz 2008 - 22,784
Crysis Warhead CLONEDVD PC [English] - 16,039


The sample of torrents above adds up to 243,067 downloads for the PC version in just over a two month period. Note that Warhead sells for $29.99 as opposed to the $49.99 for a standard game."

"
Fallout 3 (released Oct. 30 2008):

PC Version:

Fallout 3-RELOADED--cgaurav™-- - 75,152
Fallout 3 Full-Rip Skullptura - 72,987
Fallout 3-RELOADED.[sitenameremoved.org] - 48,926
Fallout 3 [PC] - 45,130
Fallout.3-RELOADED.[sitenameremoved.com] - 12,226
Fallout 3-RELOADED [Full ISO/RPG/2008] - 12,110
FALLOUT 3-TRiViUM - 5,032


I counted almost 90 individual torrents for the full PC version of Fallout 3. The small sample listed above adds up to 271,563 downloads in a one month period."

http://www.tweakguid...m/Piracy_4.html

"Software vendor losses to piracy grew by 11% to $53 billion, according to a new joint report from the Business Software Alliance (BSA) and research firm IDC."

"The United States has the lowest PC software piracy rate in the world, 20%, but because it is the world's largest software market, it has the largest dollar losses from piracy, $9.1 billion. Japan, New Zealand and Luxembourg also have low software piracy rates, near 20%. "


http://searchsecurit...1356274,00.html



http://www.itweb.co....ecoms&Itemid=59



The facts debunk the "it's ok to pirate software because [insert excuse].

It greatly affects the profitability of the industry as a whole, and therefor affects the paying customer.
How many complaints in your history as a gamer have you read about concerning buggy anti piracy programs affecting the ability of the paying user to play the game?
How much of a publishing companies overhead is directed to combatting piracy, and how much of these resource could be used to increase quality?

Modifié par xcorps, 23 novembre 2009 - 03:51 .