66 réponses à ce sujet

[Icy Magebane]

louise101 wrote...

They could have written Leandra better, she says all but a few sentences the whole game. I didn't like how she was the mourning mother and perked up when she got into the estate. No depth. Im grieving, im better, time to go on a date and dies. Horribly. 

Maybe the writers didn't like her. 

Leandra had 4 years to mourn the first sibling, and 3 if the second died... who stays depressed that long over a death in the family?

[Rifneno]

Ulicus wrote...

All I know is I'm glad I didn't go with "Quentin" for my first Hawke's name after all. I came very close.

Boy, that would have been awkward.

Epic.

AlexXIV wrote...

Well the whole family theme failed. It would have been far better if Carver or Bethany died in the deep roads and the remaining sibling would be taken into the Circle at the end of Act2 or start of Act3. And if Leandra maybe died in Act3 instead of Act2. And of course more family related quests and dialogues. Also binding a sibling's death to class choice was a very bad idea. Funny thing is just it was discussed long before the game came out and people already said it was bad. But obviously Bioware seemed to know better. Until the game came out.

I can kind of understand why they did it.  They wanted to make sure if Hawke wasn't a mage, Bethany was there to make you understand that mages aren't all bad.  Which is sorely needed after the 472 blood mages you encounter on a daily basis.  Or, if Hawke is a mage, that there's a reason not to fight the Annulment: because you might well end up having to kill your own brother.

Problem is, it falls apart when you take into account the Deep Roads.

Icy Magebane wrote...

Leandra had 4 years to mourn the first sibling, and 3 if the second died... who stays depressed that long over a death in the family?

Clearly you have no idea what it's like to lose a child.  Fortunately I can say I don't know firsthand but I've known several people who have.  It's not like losing a parent.  You don't get over a losing a child.  Ever.

[ejoslin]

Icy Magebane wrote...

louise101 wrote...

They could have written Leandra better, she says all but a few sentences the whole game. I didn't like how she was the mourning mother and perked up when she got into the estate. No depth. Im grieving, im better, time to go on a date and dies. Horribly. 

Maybe the writers didn't like her. 

Leandra had 4 years to mourn the first sibling, and 3 if the second died... who stays depressed that long over a death in the family?

While I'm sure you'll be jumped on for being cold, as a mother who has lost a child, I actually do agree with you.  3 years actually was the time it took me not to burst into tears at random times (less and less frequently as time went on), but I certainly was enjoying life and not mired in pain that entire time.

While there's nothing more painful than losing a child, most parents do have healing that's going on.  You may catch them at a bad time, or occasionally you may want to reminisce, but I think Leandra getting on with life was a good thing, and very real.

[Zjarcal]

Icy Magebane wrote...

louise101 wrote...

They could have written Leandra better, she says all but a few sentences the whole game. I didn't like how she was the mourning mother and perked up when she got into the estate. No depth. Im grieving, im better, time to go on a date and dies. Horribly. 

Maybe the writers didn't like her. 

Leandra had 4 years to mourn the first sibling, and 3 if the second died... who stays depressed that long over a death in the family?

Not everyone is the same. If someone wants to mourn a loved one for a long time that's their business. I'm not saying it's healthy or the right thing to do, but I wouldn't criticize.

[ejoslin]

Zjarcal wrote...

Icy Magebane wrote...

louise101 wrote...

They could have written Leandra better, she says all but a few sentences the whole game. I didn't like how she was the mourning mother and perked up when she got into the estate. No depth. Im grieving, im better, time to go on a date and dies. Horribly. 

Maybe the writers didn't like her. 

Leandra had 4 years to mourn the first sibling, and 3 if the second died... who stays depressed that long over a death in the family?

Not everyone is the same. If someone wants to mourn a loved one for a long time that's their business. I'm not saying it's healthy or the right thing to do, but I wouldn't criticize.

I think the original point was that Leandra should still be mourning.  But in fact, after three years, it's prefectly reasonable that she is not constantly weeping and in fact is moving on with life.

of course everyone deals with loss differently and for different amounts of time. But I don't think it's poor writing that Leandra is accepting her life.

[Icy Magebane]

Well, some people will disagree with whatever I say, and that's fine by me... but yeah, all I meant is that it's unfair to say Leandra has no depth because she isn't weepy at the beginning of Act 2. A lot of time has passed...

[KnightofPhoenix]

Leandra could have been developed better, but yea it's not the fact that she is trying to get on with her life that makes her a meh character. Actually that had the potential to make her a "stronger" character for the lack of a better word (no offense to those who take more time to adjust).

[Deztyn]

i think they tried too hard to make Leandra a generic mom figure. I couldn't relate to her as a character, because she had little character. The most interesting thing she did was blame Hawke for the Death by Ogre. Everything else she said or did was designed to be as inoffensive to the player as possible.

Edit: The seeds were there, her wanting to return to Kirkwall and reclaim her family name and fortune, despite the risks to the surviving apostate Hawke, that could have made for some good storytelling. But they don't give it much emphasis and she comes off as rather bland.

Modifié par Deztyn, 27 avril 2011 - 01:15 .

[noxsachi]

I'd have liked more interaction from her with your LI, especially if you are in a same-sex relationship, especially because shes so concerned with finding you a mate. I really wanted to scream but mom Im a lesbian to her when she makes that comment about finding me a husband.

As for the quest All that Remains is one of my favorite quests in the entire game, especially because you cannot save her. That quest did hit me, and made me wish I could make Quentin's last minutes of life excruciatingly horrid. I dunno DAO was touted as dark/low fantasy, but nothing ever made it seem dark. Oh sure you got splattered with blood but the warden had the magical powers of plot to make everything sunshine and rainbows. I like how Hawke just can't wave her sword/staff/dagger and make everything better.

[Halo Quea]

Charade Amell should stay hidden before Bioware writers decide to kill her off next.

[Halo Quea]

noxsachi wrote...

I'd have liked more interaction from her with your LI, especially if you are in a same-sex relationship, especially because shes so concerned with finding you a mate. I really wanted to scream but mom Im a lesbian to her when she makes that comment about finding me a husband.

As for the quest All that Remains is one of my favorite quests in the entire game, especially because you cannot save her. That quest did hit me, and made me wish I could make Quentin's last minutes of life excruciatingly horrid. I dunno DAO was touted as dark/low fantasy, but nothing ever made it seem dark. Oh sure you got splattered with blood but the warden had the magical powers of plot to make everything sunshine and rainbows. I like how Hawke just can't wave her sword/staff/dagger and make everything better.

Hawke doesn't make anything better.  Hawke just kills every single thing that moves.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Deztyn wrote...
Edit: The seeds were there, her wanting to return to Kirkwall and reclaim her family name and fortune, despite the risks to the surviving apostate Hawke, that could have made for some good storytelling. But they don't give it much emphasis and she comes off as rather bland.

One way they could have done it, is have Leandra demonstrate her forgiveness and sisterly love, but reconciling fully with Gamlen and inviting the poor sod to live in the bloody estate!

God what a messed up family. Sigh.

[hoorayforicecream]

noxsachi wrote...

I'd have liked more interaction from her with your LI, especially if you are in a same-sex relationship, especially because shes so concerned with finding you a mate. I really wanted to scream but mom Im a lesbian to her when she makes that comment about finding me a husband.

The family name must be continued, and the estate must have an heir. Lesbian or not, as long as your plumbing still works, it's not off the table. Look at the Alistair/Warden/Anora situation, the one resolution if the Warden isn't a human noble is to make Alistair marry Anora and keep the Warden as a mistress.

[KnightofPhoenix]

hoorayforicecream wrote...
The family name must be continued, and the estate must have an heir.

Gamlen is still alive...just saying.

Marry the poor sod to some decent woman!

See? The only family member the game managed to make me care about is Gamlen.

[Rifneno]

Icy Magebane wrote...

Well, some people will disagree with whatever I say, and that's fine by me... but yeah, all I meant is that it's unfair to say Leandra has no depth because she isn't weepy at the beginning of Act 2. A lot of time has passed...

To clarify, I didn't mean that she'd be incapable of saying a few sentences without breaking down, but I do think we should've had a scene at least acknowledging that her family has been all but destroyed in the past few years.  I'm aware that she'd be able to get along in her day-to-day life but it'd be better writing to show her grieving with Hawke once at least.

noxsachi wrote...

I'd have liked more interaction from her with your LI, especially if you are in a same-sex relationship, especially because shes so concerned with finding you a mate. I really wanted to scream but mom Im a lesbian to her when she makes that comment about finding me a husband.

That definitely would've made sense.  She doesn't even seem to acknowledge the fact someone moved in.  If she was intent on getting a grandchild out of Hawke, she should probably express the same disappointment with FemHawke and Anders as with any of the same sex relationships.  Then again I guess the average person might not know Grey Wardens are all but sterile due to the taint...

As for the quest All that Remains is one of my favorite quests in the entire game, especially because you cannot save her. That quest did hit me, and made me wish I could make Quentin's last minutes of life excruciatingly horrid. I dunno DAO was touted as dark/low fantasy, but nothing ever made it seem dark. Oh sure you got splattered with blood but the warden had the magical powers of plot to make everything sunshine and rainbows. I like how Hawke just can't wave her sword/staff/dagger and make everything better.

There's occasional chances to RP that, you just have to make them yourself.  When my mage Cousland (yeah, modded the origin for a mage) got to Howe, he spent a great deal of time paralyzed and on fire before I gave him the mercy of death.

[noxsachi]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

noxsachi wrote...

I'd have liked more interaction from her with your LI, especially if you are in a same-sex relationship, especially because shes so concerned with finding you a mate. I really wanted to scream but mom Im a lesbian to her when she makes that comment about finding me a husband.

The family name must be continued, and the estate must have an heir. Lesbian or not, as long as your plumbing still works, it's not off the table. Look at the Alistair/Warden/Anora situation, the one resolution if the Warden isn't a human noble is to make Alistair marry Anora and keep the Warden as a mistress.

Mmm I get that. I just wish it could've been brought up. It would've been a great point to characterize both Leandra, as an arisocrat concerned with continuing the family line, and Hawke as however you wanted to play her/him. Just a missed opportuntiy there imo.

Hehe, sadly due to tactics and cross class combos Quetin tends to eat a Winters Grasp and then a 10k or so Archer's Lance from Varric. So his to live after becoming fightable is on the short side.

Modifié par noxsachi, 27 avril 2011 - 01:33 .

[Wompoo]

Can't skip which is a shame, because as a main quest it is pointless (just fails so badly as a dramatic moment in Hawke's life it isn't funny... actually it is, when you see her with the zombie makeover), however it does remove some B grade story and VO acting.

[Deztyn]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Deztyn wrote...
Edit: The seeds were there, her wanting to return to Kirkwall and reclaim her family name and fortune, despite the risks to the surviving apostate Hawke, that could have made for some good storytelling. But they don't give it much emphasis and she comes off as rather bland.

One way they could have done it, is have Leandra demonstrate her forgiveness and sisterly love, but reconciling fully with Gamlen and inviting the poor sod to live in the bloody estate!

God what a messed up family. Sigh.

The odd thing is that they seem to be on good terms, making regular visits to chat... and she still doesn't invite him to live in the estate. Man was dirt poor, had nothing but shack in lowtown and he let the Hawkes live there with him, they weren't even paying rent. I know, Gamlen stole her inheritance and lost the family fortune. Gamlen made stupid mistakes, but I don't sympathize with Leandra much there, she admits she never intended to return.

And I adore Gamlen and Carver.

Charade has potential... her name is worrisome.

[Rifneno]

Deztyn wrote...

The odd thing is that they seem to be on good terms, making regular visits to chat... and she still doesn't invite him to live in the estate. Man was dirt poor, had nothing but shack in lowtown and he let the Hawkes live there with him, they weren't even paying rent. I know, Gamlen stole her inheritance and lost the family fortune. Gamlen made stupid mistakes, but I don't sympathize with Leandra much there, she admits she never intended to return.

And I adore Gamlen and Carver.

Charade has potential... her name is worrisome.

It's not Leandra's estate anymore, it's Hawke's.  Hawke is one filthy rich from the expedition.  It'd have to be Hawke that invites Gamlen.

[Deztyn]

I was under the impression it was due to Leandra petitioning the Viscount and Hawke's new influence. I could be wrong.

In that case... damn it, I want to invite my grumpy digital uncle to live me!

[KnightofPhoenix]

Rifneno wrote...
It's not Leandra's estate anymore, it's Hawke's.  Hawke is one filthy rich from the expedition.  It'd have to be Hawke that invites Gamlen.

It would have been a good opportunity to have Leandra tell Hawke to go soft on his poor uncle and let him live with them. Hawke could either say yes or no.

[noxsachi]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Rifneno wrote...
It's not Leandra's estate anymore, it's Hawke's.  Hawke is one filthy rich from the expedition.  It'd have to be Hawke that invites Gamlen.

It would have been a good opportunity to have Leandra tell Hawke to go soft on his poor uncle and let him live with them. Hawke could either say yes or no.

Another missed opportunity, though I get the feeling that no matter what you said Gamlen would refuse. But still would've been nice to have in game.

[Rifneno]

Deztyn wrote...

I was under the impression it was due to Leandra petitioning the Viscount and Hawke's new influence. I could be wrong.

In that case... damn it, I want to invite my grumpy digital uncle to live me!

Agreed.  I'm not sure I'd use the option if given, but it definitely should've been there like so many other options.  Anyways, Varric mentions it at the start of Act II when talking to Cassandra.  "The Champion moved up in the world.  Literally.  He/she bought a mansion in Hightown."  I believe at one point Leandra also mentions being glad you (Hawke) decided to buy back the old Amell manor.  As for her petitioning the Viscount, they never mentioned what became of it.  =/

[Sussurus]

Would Gamlen live in the estate more than likely.
However considering he is in permenant debt to just about every man, woman and shady rat creature in Kirkwall.
I really doubt you'd want him to live with you.

I love him, but family is best at arms reach, crooked family at the reach of someone elses arms attached to a very long pole thrown by a qunari master of spear throwing.

[Deztyn]

Rifneno wrote...
Agreed.  I'm not sure I'd use the option if given, but it definitely should've been there like so many other options.  Anyways, Varric mentions it at the start of Act II when talking to Cassandra.  "The Champion moved up in the world.  Literally.  He/she bought a mansion in Hightown."  I believe at one point Leandra also mentions being glad you (Hawke) decided to buy back the old Amell manor.  As for her petitioning the Viscount, they never mentioned what became of it.  =/

Ah, right! She makes a comment about how strange it is for her child to own her childhood home, or somesuch. I don't know how I forgot that.

I guess the drama around the Birthright quest just sticks out in my mind more.