136 réponses à ce sujet

[Night Prowler76]

Romantiq wrote...

Not according to these two items it aint

Is this in the funny pics thread lol?

[Romantiq]

Nope. I'll have to edit them before I post them there since I don't want that thread get closed by this chunk of truth

Modifié par Romantiq, 25 avril 2011 - 05:38 .

[Kaiser Shepard]

Epic =/= automatically good

I'd rather have well-designed, interesting characters and carefully built-up plots that ultimately unravel or come together in a natural way, be that epic or "just" dramatic.

Too many games and movies try too hard to be epic nowadays, simply forcing it in such a way that the resulting product feels 'fake' and cheap. But then again, that seems to be what most of you want, so it sells without too much effort going into it...

Personally I'd take legends like Martin Scorsese and Curtis Hanson over a Zack Snyder or a Michael Bay any day of the week.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 25 avril 2011 - 05:47 .

[Mrbananagrabber]

My walk to the mailbox was more epic than DA2. I met a poodle.

[Karlojey]

Personally, it wasn't epic enough for me. I have to be attached to the story and to the people for me to understand what the threat is and determine how epic it is.

DA2 was lacking of it. Yeah there was a threat, but the whole game was a like a long side quest. When I finally got to the end I was like "WTF?"

[UltiPup]

Origins, you saved Ferelden.

DA2, you saved Kirkwall but helped start the war that will engulf the entire globe.

Didn't resolve something but rather we are the cause of a huge war. I like to think we can at least agree that is something.

Modifié par UltiPup, 25 avril 2011 - 06:02 .

[Lord Phoebus]

afhdjs wrote...

4. No giant armies. DAO had a LoTR feel, with armies marching, fighting. DA2 has none of it.

Should there be giant armies in high magic fantasy?  It makes sense in LotR because that's a world where magic is dying, and even wizards prefer fighting with swords to spells.  It's not like a D&D or DA:O setting where a handful of wizards would have the same effect as a gunship loaded with napalm on a phalanx of warriors.  Concentrating troops in a tight formation is not very wise when your enemy has artillery.  It seems like small unit skirmishes and economics would be the weapons of choice between nations in a setting like Thedas.  

This leads me to believe these games should have more of a cold war feel to them, which should provide more opportunities for the independent operator that often plays the protagonist in these games.  Not that I minded the LotR inspired Ostagar that much, but I never felt like a general in DA:O and I don't think the endgame  where you were a general worked in that regard either. 

[UltiPup]

afhdjs wrote...

It just lacks the same "epicness" compared to DAO, and here's my reasons:

1. No sense of urgency. Nothing is more epic than a sense that the end of the world is coming soon and you are the only one to stop it. A 10 year story, most of it about you making a name for yourself just doesn't show this.

2. No spectacular locations, lore, creatures etc. Think about it, DA2 almost didn't introduce any new creatures. I kinda thought from Witch Hunt that they were going to show us a great fabled location, like Arlathan or something, and they didn't. Nor did they really show us some great secret about Thedas (ex. Darkspawn were produced by Broodmothers etc.) either.

3. Qunari invasion mishandled. If they were going to show us an invasion, they should make a whole game about it. Maybe they could in a future DA, but with the arishok and a lot of aspects of the Qunari already shown it just doesn't seem as great anymore. Plus, qunari invasion could have been much better with you as the warden. You might have to face the uncomfortable choice of confronting Sten in battle and killing him.

4. No giant armies. DAO had a LoTR feel, with armies marching, fighting. DA2 has none of it.

5. No spectacular villain, or a central villain. Meredith (who is only one in a string of enemies) is no archdemon, and DA2 could have been much better with big supernatural villain.

Yeah, I know, they are setting DA2 up for a spectacular battle between mages and the chantry in DA3. However, they should have shown at least some sense of how big this battle is going to be at the end of the game.

And here I thought sequels were suppose to differ from the original game. It sounds like you wanted an Origins game. Hey! Guess what! That game exists. It is called DRAGON AGE ORIGINS

I take a chocolate egg

AND EAT IT

[Mezinger]

It was epic, as in epic failure.. Ha-ha that one never get's old.

[Kilshrek]

afhdjs wrote...

4. No giant armies. DAO had a LoTR feel, with armies marching, fighting. DA2 has none of it.

Careful there, people associate that to "generic fantasy world" these days. And while I readily concede that DAO borrowed heavily from the LOTR movies I don't see what that is such a bad thing, LOTR won a crap ton of Oscars. It was successful, people loved it.

DA 2, like ME 2, lacked epic. ME 2 gave you kind of a sense of urgency but killed it with all the loyalty quests stuck in between. You really only had Horizon, Collector trap and Collector base (with dead Reaper thrown in for "IFF" which didn't bleeding work anyway so that was just an excuse to get Legion) and not one of them lasted half as long as Noveria. I also call BS on the Mako hate because the Mako worked supremely well during the story missions, it was just sloppy world design that killed the fun for side-missions. The Hammerhead is a lousy substitute.

DAO gave you epic by giving you great big spaces and great big scale. DA 2, like ME 2, scaled everything back and then some. Kirkwall was claustrophobic but that wouldn't have been too bad had there been a little more depth to Kirkwall or if the populace had been a little more organic. DAO cleverly had very few fights in populated areas because it obviously looked stupid to have a great big scrap in the middle of a busy street with no one caring. I only remember the fight on the shore of Lake Calenhad where there were civilians standing about, and even then the Templar fellow came along to help if you got close enough. DA 2 has you fighting Fake bleeding Guardsmen right in front of proper Guardsment and they don't blink. They just stand there like the statues they are.

But yes, both sequels, and DA 2's case the word sequel is to be used loosely, took the epic out of their predecessors in favour of "Making Every Box You See Unique!". And then there's a random abandoned thaig near Sundermount. How or why is irrelevant, obviously, as even Varric doesn't care.

[Roxlimn]

Kilshrek:

In DA:O, you got knifed in the streets in Orzammar. No one cares. Even the criers keep crying. You even occasionally get ambushed in the streets in Denerim. Unlike in DA2, where you had actual streets and Guardsmen who don't care, in DA:O, the streets are barren, and the ambushers apparently liked always ambushing in the exact same nameless street.

To me, this is an improvement.

[ChengChung]

Roxlimn wrote...

Kilshrek:

In DA:O, you got knifed in the streets in Orzammar. No one cares. Even the criers keep crying. You even occasionally get ambushed in the streets in Denerim. Unlike in DA2, where you had actual streets and Guardsmen who don't care, in DA:O, the streets are barren, and the ambushers apparently liked always ambushing in the exact same nameless street.

To me, this is an improvement.

Comparing with the faults of others, it wouldn't let oneself  become excellent.

[Kilshrek]

Roxlimn wrote...

Kilshrek:

In DA:O, you got knifed in the streets in Orzammar. No one cares. Even the criers keep crying. You even occasionally get ambushed in the streets in Denerim. Unlike in DA2, where you had actual streets and Guardsmen who don't care, in DA:O, the streets are barren, and the ambushers apparently liked always ambushing in the exact same nameless street.

To me, this is an improvement.

Fair point in Orzammar, I don't remember that one though. But my point is that DAO kept combat in populated areas to a minimum, which you quite missed there.

Also in DA 2, you get to fight "mob" bosses in the exact same warehouse or house or street as you fought that mad person trying to kill a whole street. You can have three different fights in the exact same warehouse/house/empty street.

Improvement eh?

[Nightwriter]

DA2 felt less epic than DA:O in the same way ME2 felt less epic than ME1.

A localized threat will always be a step down from saving the world. Like ME2, DA2 attempts to make up for this by delivering a more personal story experience. And like ME2, I find myself enjoying that personal experience while at the same time lamenting that lack of epic importance.

It's just a spot of World Savior withdrawal. I'll get over it eventually, but right now the DT's are kicking me in the teeth.

[randName]

Anathemic wrote...

Guldor wrote...

From the free dictionary: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/epic
ep·ic
play_w2("E0174500")


 (pk)
n.
1. An extended narrative poem in elevated or dignified language, celebrating the feats of a legendary or traditional hero.
2. A literary or dramatic composition that resembles an extended narrative poem celebrating heroic feats.
3. A series of events considered appropriate to an epic: the epic of the Old West.
adj.
1. Of, constituting, having to do with, or suggestive of a literary epic: an epic poem.
2. Surpassing the usual or ordinary, particularly in scope or size: "A vast musical panorama . . . it requires an epic musical understanding to do it justice" (Tim Page).
3. Heroic and impressive in quality: "Here in the courtroom . . . there was more of that epic atmosphere, the extra amperage of a special moment" (Scott Turow).

Obviously NO!! Not sure finding owners of lost items fits in that definition.

However, DAO, BG1-2, KOTOR 1, NWN, DQ9, FF1-2-7, Icewindale IMHO would fit in that category.

Epic has really lost it's meaning throughout the times. Mostly Epic is substituted for awesome.

It has lost a lot of meaning, but when someone asks "Was the game epic enough" you can't just use it as if you meant "awesome" unless you know that by context that is what the one asking meant.

Or you can still use special, even if it indicates both something that is good and something that is bad, you just need to know by context. 

And you hardly have a good alternatives, it's not like you can go "so is this chanson de geste enough for you?"


& I would assume that the OP isn't asking "Is this game awesome enough for you?", but then I and friends mostly use awesome to indicate failure so perhaps that wasn't the best exchange.

Modifié par randName, 25 avril 2011 - 07:01 .

[Mrbananagrabber]

Roxlimn wrote...

Kilshrek:

In DA:O, you got knifed in the streets in Orzammar. No one cares. Even the criers keep crying. You even occasionally get ambushed in the streets in Denerim. Unlike in DA2, where you had actual streets and Guardsmen who don't care, in DA:O, the streets are barren, and the ambushers apparently liked always ambushing in the exact same nameless street.

To me, this is an improvement.

See to me thats like saying My salary as a miner went from 5 bucks an hour to 5.50 bucks an hour, to me thats an improvement.

****ty improvement doesnt make a right.

[FellowerOfOdin]

DA:RtP was about as epic as the job of our local paperboy.

[Nightnight]

Roxlimn wrote...

The story part of DA2 was a good story that could have been amazing. Lost opportunity.
The story part of DA:O was a bad story that had no hope of being anything other than just another fairy tale. No lost opportunity.

I still prefer the DA2 approach. Definitely a change for the better there.

The gay romances in DA2's made the story come to life! Sadly Bioware didn't expand them further! Where's the hot steamy naked sex scenes? I mean rivalry romance should have hawke on top thrusting his partner and friendly romance should be the other way around!

Damn son! talk about lost opportunity. DAO has bad story because there's no gay romance. There, I said it for you, Roxlimn. 

[AkiKishi]

I liken the difference between epic and personal as the difference between writing a human character and an alien character.

Because people are that much more familiar with personal and human, the writing has to be better than for epic or alien.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Nightnight wrote...

Roxlimn wrote...

The story part of DA2 was a good story that could have been amazing. Lost opportunity.
The story part of DA:O was a bad story that had no hope of being anything other than just another fairy tale. No lost opportunity.

I still prefer the DA2 approach. Definitely a change for the better there.

The gay romances in DA2's made the story come to life! Sadly Bioware didn't expand them further! Where's the hot steamy naked sex scenes? I mean rivalry romance should have hawke on top thrusting his partner and friendly romance should be the other way around!

Damn son! talk about lost opportunity. DAO has bad story because there's no gay romance. There, I said it for you, Roxlimn. 

DA:O had gay romances.

Just sayin'.

[AkiKishi]

Roxlimn wrote...

Kilshrek:

In DA:O, you got knifed in the streets in Orzammar. No one cares. Even the criers keep crying. You even occasionally get ambushed in the streets in Denerim. Unlike in DA2, where you had actual streets and Guardsmen who don't care, in DA:O, the streets are barren, and the ambushers apparently liked always ambushing in the exact same nameless street.

To me, this is an improvement.

The Orzammar thing is part and parcel of the power struggle for the throne,no one cares because it's Dwarven politics in action. In Denerim they choose spots with no guards. That seems rather smart from their point of view and removes the total stupidity of having the Guard Captain fighting 5 feet away from a guard and the guard doing nothing.

[Melca36]

Roxlimn wrote...

Kilshrek:

In DA:O, you got knifed in the streets in Orzammar. No one cares. Even the criers keep crying. You even occasionally get ambushed in the streets in Denerim. Unlike in DA2, where you had actual streets and Guardsmen who don't care, in DA:O, the streets are barren, and the ambushers apparently liked always ambushing in the exact same nameless street.

To me, this is an improvement.

Having bad guys materialize from the ceiling is not an improvement

[randName]

Roxlimn wrote...

Kilshrek:

In DA:O, you got knifed in the streets in Orzammar. No one cares. Even the criers keep crying. You even occasionally get ambushed in the streets in Denerim. Unlike in DA2, where you had actual streets and Guardsmen who don't care, in DA:O, the streets are barren, and the ambushers apparently liked always ambushing in the exact same nameless street.

To me, this is an improvement.

As already pointed out Orzammar is in political turmoil and it's not bandits attacking you but people of Orzammar - and you get a handful once you have selected one king to promote or just post promotion. (outside the areas were you have no guards like the lower city in Orzammar, what ever it was called).

In Denerim you are even asked to go to the back ally for a fight, and never are you fighting while guards are doing nothing.

And again these fights are rather rare, while in DA2 you constantly fights on the streets of Kirkwall, and in half of them have either citizens will stand idly looking on, often smack in the middle of the fight, or guards will stand by doing nothing .

And even if it wasn't as good as in the Witcher in DA:O, DA2 managed to make it a lot worse.

[MorrigansLove]

I don't think anyone will be buying DA3 after this... (except for the few fanboys')

[Ryllen Laerth Kriel]

No, DA 2 did not feel epic to me. There was all this hype about "who is the hero of Kirkwall?" And the hero is kind of dull to me. A game revolving around a dull character isn't going to hold my interest no matter how many NPCs you have framing the narrative, trying to put a fun spin on it. It just ends up being somewhat of a gimick. You can sprinkle sugar on a dead, rotten vulture but at the end of the day you still ate a dead, rotten vulture.