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[ExtremeOne]

[quote]HealthyGiraffe wrote...

Meh. If the Rachni come back to fight against Shepard in ME3, those who killed the Rachni Queen in ME1 will just be made to fight someone else. Or another type of Rachni.

Bioware won't make a game with one decision leading to extra battles. It will be equal, but different. [/quote




Then they will die as well 

[Casuist]

just for a general point that seems overly ignored in several posts:

The only reason the asari commando was susceptible to control in ME1 was her near-death state. One might make additional arguments regarding the messenger in ME2... but there's no clear evidence-in game that the Rachni can impose their will upon an unwilling sentient species except under extreme circumstances. The lack of such reports from the Rachni wars is evidence to the contrary.

[Clonedzero]

HealthyGiraffe wrote...

Meh. If the Rachni come back to fight against Shepard in ME3, those who killed the Rachni Queen in ME1 will just be made to fight someone else. Or another type of Rachni.

Bioware won't make a game with one decision leading to extra battles. It will be equal, but different.

im not argueing that.

im saying in context of purely what your shepard knows at the time of the choice, that killing the rachni makes far more sense than letting it live.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Killing what is presumably the last of an otherwise dead species hardly constitutes as genocide.

[Dean_the_Young]

michaelrsa wrote...

Genocide is genocide.

Even if the Reapers indoctrinate them all I won't change my decision in ME1.

My Shepard is not a monster.

So, uh, what do you call killing the Thorian, the Collectors, and Sovereign?

[Reapinger]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

michaelrsa wrote...

Genocide is genocide.

Even if the Reapers indoctrinate them all I won't change my decision in ME1.

My Shepard is not a monster.

So, uh, what do you call killing the Thorian, the Collectors, and Sovereign?

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[Dean_the_Young]

michaelrsa wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
So, uh, what do you call killing the Thorian, the Collectors, and Sovereign?

Sorry, I should have specified a species that does not want to kill/enslave/harvest me.

The Thorian was hardly going to track you down. The Collectors could have been quarantined in the galactic core. And would you have let Sovereign go free, to build more Reapers, if he promised you that he was different and wouldn't attack?


And as for the Rachni? The only source, in all galactic history, that the Rachni weren't what galactic history remembers them as, and what Shepard encountered, IE venom-spewing hyper-aggressive territorial bugs... is one queen who has every interest in persuading you that she won't be a threat, regardless of whether it's the truth or not.

[DrXenu]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

michaelrsa wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
So, uh, what do you call killing the Thorian, the Collectors, and Sovereign?

Sorry, I should have specified a species that does not want to kill/enslave/harvest me.

The Thorian was hardly going to track you down. The Collectors could have been quarantined in the galactic core. And would you have let Sovereign go free, to build more Reapers, if he promised you that he was different and wouldn't attack?


And as for the Rachni? The only source, in all galactic history, that the Rachni weren't what galactic history remembers them as, and what Shepard encountered, IE venom-spewing hyper-aggressive territorial bugs... is one queen who has every interest in persuading you that she won't be a threat, regardless of whether it's the truth or not.

These are completely different circumstances.  You were engaged in a battle for your life against the Thorian, what was Shepard supposed to do?  Walk away and let it's control kill the colonists destroying the entire Feros operation, leaving the problem for someone else to find? 

The Collectors also had to be dealt accordingly.  First off, quarantining an entire race?  The manpower and resources required to undergo such an endeavor would be astronomical, not to mention a waste. They were harvesting an entire race and using their liquified remains to build a supperweapon, not to mention another battle for survival.  Also, I must point out that Mordin reveals that the Collectors can barely be considered a sentient race.  No culture, no passion, no resaon to live they were not individual beings, just vegeatative slaves, the final insult to the Prothean's fall.  Killing them was as much an act of defense as simply humane.

Finally, I'm not sure the point you're trying to make with Sovereign.  It was on of its species not genocide.  Even if it was the last, it had to be destroyed.  Destroyed countless numbers of our ships, had no intent of peaceful resolution, and was a threat to the very defense of the universe.  It definitely would not have broken off his attack and asked to go back as much as it would not have kept its word.  Destruction of Sovereign was the only way, I hope you see that.  We're not stupid enough to let Sovereign go off like that.

My Shepard does not like the taste of genocide, and never will, but these instances were neccesary.  In all of them, it was an act of defense against a confirmed threat.  You are saying that this Rachni Queen, independent of the Rachni Wars, was guilty because its species was manipulate beyond their will.  That you are willing to kill innocent beings because the asylum you offer may, in a small posiblility, be a detriment to you.  I don't think this come close to justifying genocide.  The Queen's words seemed pretty true and forthright and it would have nothing to gain for lying to us except to lead more of her species to face a terrible and painful end, again.

This concludes my rant.

[CrazyCatDude]

 This is one of those decisions I can't play the other way.  The Rachni Queen always lives.  My Shepards are all raging jerks, but there is a limit to just how ruthless they can be.  

[ExtremeOne]

I could kill those bugs any day . My Shepard has no problem in killing aliens who get in his way .

[DrXenu]

ExtremeOne wrote...

I could kill those bugs any day . My Shepard has no problem in killing aliens who get in his way .

But they aren't in his/her way! They are asking to live and survive, to redeem their species.  They aren't just "bugs" y the way, they are living, conscious, and feeling creatures.  Not vermin only meant to be stepped on.

[DrXenu]

Double post

Modifié par DrXenu, 25 avril 2011 - 03:50 .

[DrXenu]

michaelrsa wrote...

DrXenu wrote...
But they aren't in his/her way! They are asking to live and survive, to redeem their species.  They aren't just "bugs" y the way, they are living, conscious, and feeling creatures.  Not vermin only meant to be stepped on.

Don't bother arguing with him. It's not going to work. Alien life has no worth to him.

Very true.

[ExtremeOne]

michaelrsa wrote...

DrXenu wrote...
But they aren't in his/her way! They are asking to live and survive, to redeem their species.  They aren't just "bugs" y the way, they are living, conscious, and feeling creatures.  Not vermin only meant to be stepped on.

Don't bother arguing with him. It's not going to work. Alien life has no worth to him.

  






That is not true I like the krogans  My Shepard would save them and protect them 

[Labrev]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

michaelrsa wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
So, uh, what do you call killing the Thorian, the Collectors, and Sovereign?

Sorry, I should have specified a species that does not want to kill/enslave/harvest me.

The Thorian was hardly going to track you down. The Collectors could have been quarantined in the galactic core. And would you have let Sovereign go free, to build more Reapers, if he promised you that he was different and wouldn't attack?


And as for the Rachni? The only source, in all galactic history, that the Rachni weren't what galactic history remembers them as, and what Shepard encountered, IE venom-spewing hyper-aggressive territorial bugs... is one queen who has every interest in persuading you that she won't be a threat, regardless of whether it's the truth or not.

Apples to oranges (or, an organic species to a machine/organic-hybrid warship). The Rachni Queen did nothing to be held against it. It was actually a victim. Sovereign just about established itself as a menace to the galaxy in every way.

The krogan threatened the galaxy once as well, on the same scale that the rachni once did. Should their species be eradicated? By that same logic, Legion should also be destroyed and the "real" geth all need to be terminated as well.

[Sebby]

DrXenu wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

I could kill those bugs any day . My Shepard has no problem in killing aliens who get in his way .

But they aren't in his/her way! They are asking to live and survive, to redeem their species.  They aren't just "bugs" y the way, they are living, conscious, and feeling creatures.  Not vermin only meant to be stepped on.

The Rachni Queen was stuck in a glass tube rigged with acid in a base that was going to experience neutron bust. What else could it say; "Yeah Shepard when I get out of here I'm gonna breed plenty of soldiers to go kill things".

It's extremely naive and foolish to let her go on the count of just her word and considering her situation where it's in her interest to BS of it if need be. She didn't even mention the possibility of Reaper indoctrination on her ancestors in ME1 and even if she did It's just her word and there's no solid evidence for it.

[Big I]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Killing what is presumably the last of an otherwise dead species hardly constitutes as genocide.

It is at the very least murder, and I would say it probably counts as a hate crime as well. If you kill her it's not because of anything she's done, it's because she's rachni.

[Kaiser Shepard]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Killing what is presumably the last of an otherwise dead species hardly constitutes as genocide.

It is at the very least murder, and I would say it probably counts as a hate crime as well. If you kill her it's not because of anything she's done, it's because she's rachni.

She's a potential danger and I didn't trust her, simple as that. If she were an asari, krogan or human, I would have done the exact same in that situation.

[DrXenu]

Seboist wrote...

The Rachni Queen was stuck in a glass tube rigged with acid in a base that was going to experience neutron bust. What else could it say; "Yeah Shepard when I get out of here I'm gonna breed plenty of soldiers to go kill things".

It's extremely naive and foolish to let her go on the count of just her word and considering her situation where it's in her interest to BS of it if need be. She didn't even mention the possibility of Reaper indoctrination on her ancestors in ME1 and even if she did It's just her word and there's no solid evidence for it.

It has nothing to gain from lying.  It told you to kill the former children because thye will cause harm, something it wouldn't do if it cared about the humans. Also, it doesn't know what occured during the Rachni Wars  It was born after the fact so it wouldn't know that they were tainted by indoctrination.  There is no evidence that it had negative intent nor motive for such intent.

[Skarwael]

My first playthrough, I killed the Rachni queen because it seemed like a big risk to galaxy.

However, now that I've gotten used to the "feel" of the game, I seriously doubt that you'd be punished for setting it free. I think paragons would throw a gigantic hissy fit and I doubt the writers would want that to happen.

I can't think of the appropriate word, but it seems like the right outcome to allow a formerly enslaved race it's freedom for them to fight the reapers in the final battle.

[KnightofPhoenix]

DrXenu wrote...
It has nothing to gain from lying.

Her life.