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[PMC65]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

@PCM65 (can't quote on iTouch)

Incorrect on one count: rachni are not aggressive. Not unless threatened.

Again, you can justify killing anything and everything for posing a potential threat. That alone is not good enough reason to do so. Especially not when the subject is guilty of no crime anyway.

She not only promises to be civil (a promise that she's not really in a position to renege even after you free her) but also knows what happened to her ancestors for threatening the galaxy: they were wiped out completely. And acknowledges this in front of you. Ultimately, there isn't good enough excuse left to not take her word, unless you are just very untrusting of people in general.

Intelligent and highly aggressive is from the game, so if it is incorrect blame it on Bioware ... Either choice can bite you in the ass potentially. Question is do you risk countless lives and let her go? In a real life setting, I wouldn't free her. In the game I let her live 75% of the time since the consequences aren't real and I am figuring that BW will make her a nice fuzzy bunny who helps me kill the reapers.

[Cypher0020]

I let them live and killed them once... reloaded and spared the Queen.... ugh the look on her face when Shep ruthlessly dumps the acid....

Contary to that... I swear Shep and the Queen share look of support when you free her....and I like that

[corporal doody]

PMC65 wrote...



Intelligent and highly aggressive is from the game, so if it is incorrect blame it on Bioware ... Either choice can bite you in the ass potentially. Question is do you risk countless lives and let her go? In a real life setting, I wouldn't free her. In the game I let her live 75% of the time since the consequences aren't real and I am figuring that BW will make her a nice fuzzy bunny who helps me kill the reapers.

Intelligent and highly aggressive is the impression they got from their interaction with a INDOCTRINATED rachni. so i think the codex is biased against. which is kinda cool that BW didnt fluff it up

[KnightofPhoenix]

SalsaDMA wrote...

GodWood wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Had them exterminated. A regrettable necessity. But their very nature makes them very hard if impossible to integrate into a galactic community, and it makes them a very potential short and long term threat.

This

Pray tell what nature that is? Would it happen to be the same that we have seen evidenced in the Krogan and the Turians, or even the Batarians? 3 other species that are arguable 'integrated' into a galactic community?

Unless you're planing to have a Queen sit in an embassy (highly unlikely, unless you want a rachni infestation), there is virtually no way to conduct diplomacy and negotiations with them. Or unless you are planning to give them sentient pseudo-slaves, with little idea on the effects on their nervous system (and I had no idea this was even possible in ME1). That alone makes them very difficult to integrate. By comparision, Batarians and Krogans are individuals, they can be negotiated with and the reason relations fell apart was not solely their doing (though they had their fair share of idiocy). Relations can improve and they can be integrated. Furthermore, they can participate in galactic trade and other such activities. The Rachni provide nothing, but can reproduce even faster than Krogans.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 25 avril 2011 - 03:19 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

michaelrsa wrote...

Knight, if you had the option of handing the queen over to the Council and let them deal with her, would you?

I would consider it, but decide aganst it. I am almost certain that if that happened, the Salarians and Turians would conduct military experiments on it to try and clone cheap, worthless cannon fodder shock troopers.
Humanity will obviously not be invited to the party, thus weakening our relative power when we are already vulnerable. "That can't happen". 

[KnightofPhoenix]

michaelrsa wrote...
I'm not really that sure of that. Maybe it's the fact that I'm a Council supporter but I really can't see them making the exact same mistake that they made at the Peak. 

The extinction of the Rachni was an admitted regret by the galactic community. I'd like to think they'd like to have the chance to carefully and safely rectify that.

Or they would learn from the mistakes of the Peak and seek better ways to get the same results.

I'm sure they would keep the existence of the Rachni secret, so galactic sympathy (which I doubt exists in any significant way, it's ancient history) is not really an issue.

They may or may not do what I am suggesting. But because I do not trust them, I will not be giving them a potential weapon.

[PMC65]

corporal doody wrote...

PMC65 wrote...



Intelligent and highly aggressive is from the game, so if it is incorrect blame it on Bioware ... Either choice can bite you in the ass potentially. Question is do you risk countless lives and let her go? In a real life setting, I wouldn't free her. In the game I let her live 75% of the time since the consequences aren't real and I am figuring that BW will make her a nice fuzzy bunny who helps me kill the reapers.

Intelligent and highly aggressive is the impression they got from their interaction with a INDOCTRINATED rachni. so i think the codex is biased against. which is kinda cool that BW didnt fluff it up

 

Were they indoctrinated? Or was an alliance struck like we see with the Geth & the Thorian? Is the Queen playing Shepard? After all, she was there during the Shep / Benezia discussion and who knows what she experienced / discussed with Benezia. She is intelligent  so she could be manipulating Shep.

As a Queen, her soldiers are expendable so her saying kill my "children" doesn't really hold much weight for me. But it will be interesting to see how BW handles this in ME3. Will they go the "we warned you" route or say "surprise, she really is a fuzzy bunny"? No matter, the beauty of the game is that one can just replay and either hit acid or free once the veil is removed.

[nelly21]

PMC65 wrote...

As a Queen, her soldiers are expendable so her saying kill my "children" doesn't really hold much weight for me. But it will be interesting to see how BW handles this in ME3. Will they go the "we warned you" route or say "surprise, she really is a fuzzy bunny"? No matter, the beauty of the game is that one can just replay and either hit acid or free once the veil is removed.

This is what I'm most interested to see. I would love it if a lot of the choices we made had bad consequences. For example, my Adept Shep is kind of a jerk. He kept the Collector Base, let the Council die, made Udina a councilor and is pretty much a hardcore human supremecist. I would love it if a bunch of his decisions came back to bite him in the butt.

Same with my renegons (can't bring myself to be true paragon...yuck). I would like problems to occur based on certain decisions. I hate it when your decisions always end up being the "right" decision.

[PMC65]

nelly21 wrote...

PMC65 wrote...

As a Queen, her soldiers are expendable so her saying kill my "children" doesn't really hold much weight for me. But it will be interesting to see how BW handles this in ME3. Will they go the "we warned you" route or say "surprise, she really is a fuzzy bunny"? No matter, the beauty of the game is that one can just replay and either hit acid or free once the veil is removed.

This is what I'm most interested to see. I would love it if a lot of the choices we made had bad consequences. For example, my Adept Shep is kind of a jerk. He kept the Collector Base, let the Council die, made Udina a councilor and is pretty much a hardcore human supremecist. I would love it if a bunch of his decisions came back to bite him in the butt.

Same with my renegons (can't bring myself to be true paragon...yuck). I would like problems to occur based on certain decisions. I hate it when your decisions always end up being the "right" decision.

 

Totally agree with you .. I just hope that some decisions that seemed right (paragon) are also wrong. 
H
opefully BW has some real surprises for us that will force all players to  have both joy-joy and oh-****s in their game play at the end. That would be great story telling!

[Vicious]

Exterminating them is just stupid and dickish. They were clearly under Reaper control the first time around. Does that mean they are susceptible? Sure, but so is everyone.

their greatest strength is also their greatest weakness, but the kicker is that the surviving Queen KNOWS what indoctrination is, and how to avoid it. [hint, keep Queen away from anything Reaper-based.] as long as the Queen is safe and secure, the drones are completely incorruptible and can lay waste to pretty much anything.

And if you spare them, they like humans. Score!


As for 'the queen might have been lying' bit... really, this isn't a novel with millions of subplots or a fanfic. This is a simple heroic space fantasy.

Saving Rachni is good and will pay off. Kill them and it will be like they never existed. Like every Bioware game.

[Admoniter]

Vicious wrote...

Exterminating them is just stupid and dickish. They were clearly under Reaper control the first time around. Does that mean they are susceptible? Sure, but so is everyone.

Define clearly, and if you consider the Queen saying it wasn't her races fault then that doesn't count. She is the only hope for her races continued survival and someone is holding a gun to her head she has every motivation to live and what better way to do that than blame the Rachni war on something else.

their greatest strength is also their greatest weakness, but the kicker is that the surviving Queen KNOWS what indoctrination is, and how to avoid it. [hint, keep Queen away from anything Reaper-based.] as long as the Queen is safe and secure, the drones are completely incorruptible and can lay waste to pretty much anything.

What if the Reaper actively seek out the queen, what then? I mean contrary to what ME1-2 portrays the Reapers are intellegent; they would have to be after systematically exterminating life for 37 million years. Provided that they encited the Rachni War who is to say that they would not remeber how useful the Rachni are and do it all again?

And if you spare them, they like humans. Score!

And if you get rid of them who they like is a non issue.

As for 'the queen might have been lying' bit... really, this isn't a novel with millions of subplots or a fanfic. This is a simple heroic space fantasy.

NO the reason the queen probably isn't lying is that if Bioware did make it so that paragon choice occasionaly had negative consequences all the hyper idealists would declare a holy war against BW. Some people just can't handle the fact that making quick judgement calls could backfire. That would be like some mass murder asking for a pardon based on the fact that "The Leprechaun made me do it." Would you let them go? How is it any different with the Rachni? Fact is being as idealistic as full paragon is only works if everyone else is as idealistic as you and not many people are because putting your blind faith in the word of someone is asking for something to backfire.

Modifié par Admoniter, 25 avril 2011 - 09:10 .

[Lvl20DM]

I only killed the queen in one my six play-throughs. I guess she could've been lying, but that would have violated certain concepts of narrative convention.

[thesuperdarkone]

I wonder, what would all your opinions be if Bioware made sparing the Queen the best choice while killing her is a very bad choice?

[Eudaemonium]

thesuperdarkone wrote...

I wonder, what would all your opinions be if Bioware made sparing the Queen the best choice while killing her is a very bad choice?

There would be 50,000 posts about how Bioware favours paragon players.

[thesuperdarkone]

Eudaemonium wrote...

thesuperdarkone wrote...

I wonder, what would all your opinions be if Bioware made sparing the Queen the best choice while killing her is a very bad choice?

There would be 50,000 posts about how Bioware favours paragon players.

 

lol true. It seems like Paragons are getting most of the good stuff.

[PMC65]

thesuperdarkone wrote...

I wonder, what would all your opinions be if Bioware made sparing the Queen the best choice while killing her is a very bad choice?

One of my 4 Sheps would be bummed and the other 3 Sheps will be pointing at him saying "I told you so idiot!"

[Autoclave]

I think that killing the rachni queen is both a paragon and renegade choice at the same time. Why?

Paragon: You are merely holding onto the decision that has been done earlier before you: the council deciding to exterminate the rachni. You have not allowed them to emerge again and do all this damage to the council species.

Renegade: Killing the queen of an annoying species I've just had a lot of trouble with? HELL YES!

If you remember the rachni queen, she controlled a dead asari body! This is more than dangerous to allow to live. 

Modifié par Autoclave, 25 avril 2011 - 10:08 .

[massive_effect]

LookingGlass93 wrote...

The first and only peacefult contact with the rachni in history, and we should respond by killing them?

If you kill the rachni you make Shepard a party to genocide, because you're wiping out the only free rachni the krogan missed.

EDIT: It's also cold blooded murder for something the queen didn't do. She didn't start any war, and is begging for her life.

It's a giant bug that must be squashed.

The rachni are not intelligent beings. They simply emit a wave pattern that interferes with the Asari brain. The victimized Asari falls into a state of nirvana and spouts mystical rhetoric. She will defend the rachni like a mother to her child. All of her speech is from her own imagination. This is just to lure the Asari close enough to be eaten. If a rachni tries this on an Ardat-Yakshi, the rachni will spontaneously combust.

[Dean_the_Young]

Vicious wrote...

Exterminating them is just stupid and dickish. They were clearly under Reaper control the first time around. Does that mean they are susceptible? Sure, but so is everyone.

Clearly how? Can you recognize signs of indoctrination? Do you have any support for the position that the past rachni were indoctrinated?

Moreover, what proof do you have that indoctrination even exists? Have you been to Virmire? Otherwise, why believe in Indoctrination as opposed to the self-defense of a few traitors and criminals?

their greatest strength is also their greatest weakness, but the kicker is that the surviving Queen KNOWS what indoctrination is, and how to avoid it. [hint, keep Queen away from anything Reaper-based.] as long as the Queen is safe and secure, the drones are completely incorruptible and can lay waste to pretty much anything.

Why can't the drones be indoctrinated? And if the drones are indoctrinated, why couldn't they bring an indoctrination device to the queen, to which she wouldn't realize until it's too late?

And if you spare them, they like humans. Score!

Or do they just like Shepard?

[KnightofPhoenix]

For the sake of argument. I don't see how it will be hard for Reapers to indoctrinate a single Queen, if one supposedly managed to indoctrinate them all in the past. I would not be surprised if the Reapers can figure out its location by indoctrinating a drone.