251 réponses à ce sujet

[WilliamShatner]

If I hear the word "nostalgia" used in reference to DA:O again I'm going to put a fist through a wall. It was released LESS THAN TWO YEARS AGO.

Shane makes me nostalgic. DA:O is very much current and relevant.

[Mad-Max90]

Those still aren't changes to the environment, all it does is make you start in a new location then limit you in the already explored location, this game is ****ty, deal with it

[Dragoonlordz]

I do find it amusing when I see people defending the game trying to convince others they are wrong about if they did not enjoy the game, as a few people in this thread have been doing. No amount of arguing will convince people they are wrong about not liking the game. They defend.. Correction, try to belittle what other dislike about the game with either trying to re-focus it on DAO or just plain through arrogance believe they can out-logic the other person via nit-picking on each sentence and aspect. A lot of people on here don't like DA2 for very valid reasons and some people like it but give up trying to convince others they are wrong already by saying incredably dumb things like "That's just your opinion..." Well no **** sherlock but in their opinion they did not like the game and you did. Deal with it and stop trying to belittle them and their 'opinions'. imh'opinion' the fans (of DA2) are far, far worse than the people who did not like it.

[Pandaman102]

Roxlimn wrote...

Frankly, I think the solution is that Bioware should make all their maps blander or more generic so that people don't notice the map reuse as much. I've noticed this from Bioware since, well, forever, but apparently most people didn't. Since blander maps appear to have been better, it stands to reason that people want blander, more generic maps.

No, people don't notice reused assets in other games as much because the developers made clever use of the tools they had to hide the recycling. DA2 didn't bother to hide anything and making maps bland without addressing the sloppy reuse of maps would just make it even worse.

Roxlimn wrote...

I think it's largely because of the short development time and the ambitious scope. ME2's a smaller game than ME1, even. It's really short. If DA2 had "followed" that lesson, it'd be 20 hours long or less. You think you wouldn't be shouting bloody murder if that happened? I doubt it.

What ambitious scope? I could understand if sacrifices had to be made to deliver a truly impressive and innovative new feature, but nothing DA2 does hasn't been done better in other games. The framed narrative is about the only "new" thing, but that should have absolutely no bearing on the teams in charge of quest scripting or modeling.

[Mad-Max90]

Actually the main story quests and all the character quests are a lot longer all together over mass effect 1. The only reason the first one took soo long was the needless mako using parts that were extremely long/annoying and had no real part of progressing the story, but I will admit the rpg elements were amazing in the first mass effect

[Melca36]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

I do find it amusing when I see people defending the game trying to convince others they are wrong about if they did not enjoy the game, as a few people in this thread have been doing. No amount of arguing will convince people they are wrong about not liking the game. They defend.. Correction, try to belittle what other dislike about the game with either trying to re-focus it on DAO or just plain through arrogance believe they can out-logic the other person via nit-picking on each sentence and aspect. A lot of people on here don't like DA2 for very valid reasons and some people like it but give up trying to convince others they are wrong already by saying incredably dumb things like "That's just your opinion..." Well no **** sherlock but in their opinion they did not like the game and you did. Deal with it and stop trying to belittle them and their 'opinions'. imh'opinion' the fans (of DA2) are far, far worse than the people who did not like it.

I actually have no problem with DA:2 fans liking the game but I do have issues with those defending these enemy waves that materialize out of nowhere..........



Theres just no excuse for that.

[SirGladiator]

It sounds like, from the interview, that Ray not only fully understands the main criticisms, but agrees with them as well, at least to a degree. And that's perfectly understandable, as they took their most popular game ever, made radical changes to it, and the sales tanked. Whatever the reason for it, you'd have to assume they'll be looking to make the next one more like the one that was the most successful, so I wouldn't be surprised to hear a lot more talk about returning to the 'spiritual successor to BG2' for DA3. Whether it ends up actually playing more like DAO or DA2 remains to be seen, but its only natural they'd want to at least move in that direction now. I imagine they'll try to make it the best of both worlds, not do the whole weird 'second wave out of nowhere' thing much if any, but keep the faster pace. Stuff like that, make it 'feel' more like DAO, even as it keeps the best of DA2, that's what will make DA3 the success that DA2 should've been.

[Elhanan]

Melca36 wrote...

I actually have no problem with DA:2 fans liking the game but I do have issues with those defending these enemy waves that materialize out of nowhere..........

Theres just no excuse for that.

Windows? Rooftops? Rogues? Sewers? Stealth? Shadows? Low flying swallows w/o coconuts?

[Lux]

Interesting statement. It's either those expecting more of the same or those embracing changes. There's no room for a third way?

I'm an "old" gamer but I like to play games as long as they are good. I got turned off by DA2 not because I was expecting DA:O (we who noticed had ample warning of the changes) but because of the rushed nature of the game.

What went wrong from someone NOT expecting DAO 2 in four basic points:

1) Lack of game world coherence and reactiveness
Some role-playing immersion from an RPG is a basic feature I'd expect from an RPG. However, as a mage I have nothing to worry about templars. There's a fight on the street and no one reacts...

2) Handling of dynamic combat
Faster is fine, minus the bland waves, bloody explosions for every single death blow, enemies appearing from thin air...

3) Reusing sets

4) Underwhelming Kirkwall

These statements from BioWare are almost like a reflection of the game's flaws with the reuse of over simplistic arguments in any given interview. Is BioWare that satisfied with the outcome of this game? I wouldn't think so, but trying to convey just how good their game came out to be while dismissing criticism to fans that expected more of the same is rather annoying.

One thing that can be said is that their message help foster divisiveness between fans and isn't that reassuring for the future.

Modifié par Merkar, 25 avril 2011 - 07:46 .

[Speakeasy13]

Shatterkiss wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Muzyka: Dragon Age II is selling faster than Dragon Age Origins.

If the game is selling faster than DAO then someone has got their facts wrong.

Actually that statement is true.  Looking at sales charts, DA2 is definitely outselling DAO in recent weeks.  Of course, DAO has been out for years...

Sources pls? Cuz the data available suggests the contrary.

[Dracotamer]

Yeah, they aren't acknowledging the fact that those "purists" are actually their hardcore fanbase and it's not just us who are disappointed.

Modifié par Dracotamer, 25 avril 2011 - 08:17 .

[AkiKishi]

Speakeasy13 wrote...

Shatterkiss wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Muzyka: Dragon Age II is selling faster than Dragon Age Origins.

If the game is selling faster than DAO then someone has got their facts wrong.

Actually that statement is true.  Looking at sales charts, DA2 is definitely outselling DAO in recent weeks.  Of course, DAO has been out for years...

Sources pls? Cuz the data available suggests the contrary.

It's a satarical statement. Dragon Age 2 is selling more than Dragon Age. But this is only because Dragon Age has been out for 2 years.

[Melca36]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Speakeasy13 wrote...

Shatterkiss wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Muzyka: Dragon Age II is selling faster than Dragon Age Origins.

If the game is selling faster than DAO then someone has got their facts wrong.

Actually that statement is true.  Looking at sales charts, DA2 is definitely outselling DAO in recent weeks.  Of course, DAO has been out for years...

Sources pls? Cuz the data available suggests the contrary.

It's a satarical statement. Dragon Age 2 is selling more than Dragon Age. But this is only because Dragon Age has been out for 2 years.

Wasn't Dragon Age released in November 2009? So it has not really been a full 2 years yet.

[Speakeasy13]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Speakeasy13 wrote...

Shatterkiss wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Muzyka: Dragon Age II is selling faster than Dragon Age Origins.

If the game is selling faster than DAO then someone has got their facts wrong.

Actually that statement is true.  Looking at sales charts, DA2 is definitely outselling DAO in recent weeks.  Of course, DAO has been out for years...

Sources pls? Cuz the data available suggests the contrary.

It's a satarical statement. Dragon Age 2 is selling more than Dragon Age. But this is only because Dragon Age has been out for 2 years.

Either you typo'd or you need better logic bro. Because that sentence contradicts itself.

There're semi-reliable week-to-week comparisons of the two games' sales, DA:O outsells DA2 in every week of release except the 1st one; and that 1st-week sales was obviously built on DA:O's momentum.

Not to mention ppl had to obviously buy the game b4 criticizing it. So all of these backlash doesn't 100% translate to DA2 sales; most likely it is DA3 that will suffer.

Modifié par Speakeasy13, 25 avril 2011 - 10:46 .

[Leanansidhe]

I keep seeing people **** about the reused maps, and yet, they hold BG and BG2 up as pristine examples of the genre.

Every inn, temple, tomb, wizard tower, cave, etc., ad nauseaum, looked EXACTLY THE SAME.

In Mass Effect, which lots of people hold up as being in every way superior to its sequel, *cough*whatever*cough* there were precisely, what, 3 different kinds of buildings on the uncharted worlds?

In NWN, pretty much everything looked the same, no matter where you were, because of the toolset used.

It takes a tremendous amount of money to make these games.  And, of course, being RPG players, we demand these character intensive, dialogue intensive, ridiculously long campaigns, and we scream when we don't get them.  If I have to sacrifice having 50 different kinds of dungeons, so I can have more dialogue, more characters, and a longer (and better) story, than that's a trade-off I'm more than happy to make.

You guys can just keep complaining.  I'm going to start my 10th playthrough of DAII.

[AkiKishi]

Speakeasy13 wrote...
Either you typo'd or you need better logic bro. Because that sentence contradicts itself.

There're semi-reliable week-to-week comparisons of the two games' sales, DA:O outsells DA2 in every week of release except the 1st one; and that 1st-week sales was obviously built on DA:O's momentum.

Not to mention ppl had to obviously buy the game b4 criticizing it. So all of these backlash doesn't 100% translate to DA2 sales; most likely it is DA3 that will suffer.

I'll explain the satire.

We are comparing current sales of DA to current sales of DA2. Not the week 1 sales of DA to the week 1 sales of DA2.

[Uzaik]

SKRemaks wrote...

I keep seeing people **** about the reused maps, and yet, they hold BG and BG2 up as pristine examples of the genre.

Every inn, temple, tomb, wizard tower, cave, etc., ad nauseaum, looked EXACTLY THE SAME.

In Mass Effect, which lots of people hold up as being in every way superior to its sequel, *cough*whatever*cough* there were precisely, what, 3 different kinds of buildings on the uncharted worlds?

In NWN, pretty much everything looked the same, no matter where you were, because of the toolset used.

It takes a tremendous amount of money to make these games.  And, of course, being RPG players, we demand these character intensive, dialogue intensive, ridiculously long campaigns, and we scream when we don't get them.  If I have to sacrifice having 50 different kinds of dungeons, so I can have more dialogue, more characters, and a longer (and better) story, than that's a trade-off I'm more than happy to make.

You guys can just keep complaining.  I'm going to start my 10th playthrough of DAII.

Are you really that dense? Criticism should always be done in context. 1999 and 2011 are quite different, don't know if you've noticed. By today's quality standards (meaning, what we've been expected to receive in recent games) the amount of repeated scenarios (not to mention, how ridiculously dead is Kirkwall if you consider it's the only city) is unbearable.

[nopho]

SKRemaks wrote...

I keep seeing people **** about the reused maps, and yet, they hold BG and BG2 up as pristine examples of the genre.

Every inn, temple, tomb, wizard tower, cave, etc., ad nauseaum, looked EXACTLY THE SAME.

baldurs gate release 1998, DA2 release 2011

In Mass Effect, which lots of people hold up as being in every way superior to its sequel, *cough*whatever*cough* there were precisely, what, 3 different kinds of buildings on the uncharted worlds?

1: 3 different kinds of buildings in uncharted worlds vs. 3ish differen kinds of caves for the whole effing story
2: takeing one of the few things people didn't like about the game and makeing that a comparison to the next game and takeing "people said it was in every way superior" as an argument...you do not buy that yourself, do you?

It takes a tremendous amount of money to make these games.  And, of course, being RPG players, we demand these character intensive, dialogue intensive, ridiculously long campaigns, and we scream when we don't get them.  If I have to sacrifice having 50 different kinds of dungeons, so I can have more dialogue, more characters, and a longer (and better) story, than that's a trade-off I'm more than happy to make.

cool so you got the DA2 version with lots of good dialoge many characters and a long and good storyline?
damn, i just got the version with much reduced choiced where my character said the same in 3 different ways, 2different characters for each class and 3 short storylines wich were streched by waves and pointless sidequests.

You guys can just keep complaining.  I'm going to start my 10th playthrough of DAII.

9 playthroughs in 6weeks makes 1.5 playthroughs a week, takeing 40hours per playthrough means you played 8.5 hours of dragon age each day. since it is out.

[Johnny20]

It has nothing to do with "wanting more Origins" for me at least. I like change, change is good. I'll embrace it. But trying to justify the cheap rush job that was Dragon Age 2 because they "didn't want to sit on their laurels" and "wanted to change things up" is ridiculous. It's personally insulting when they talk such tripe.

Bioware Dude 1: "Hey, lets use the same dungeon over and over and over, that'll shake things up!""

Bioware Dude 2: "Why we're here, lets cut loads of other crap out too. Lets face it, who really enjoyed talking with their companions or changing their gear?

Bioware Dude!: "Great idea! this game is going to be nothing like Origins, good work!"

We all know why the changes were made, Bioware. Jesus, do you think we're children? Stop lying in interviews. You're making yourselves look even worse.

The changes were made to rush the game out. It is that simple. And you know what? Looking at the alternative, I'd happily take another "Origins".

Modifié par Johnny20, 25 avril 2011 - 11:54 .

[LyndseyCousland]

I wholeheartedly agree with the OP.

[Sidney]

SirGladiator wrote...

It sounds like, from the interview, that Ray not only fully understands the main criticisms, but agrees with them as well, at least to a degree. And that's perfectly understandable, as they took their most popular game ever, made radical changes to it, and the sales tanked.

...except they didn't make radical changes. They made small changes in the game and people have blown them up to be radical. I thought the ME2 criticisms were overblown but people have lost their minds on DA2. There are a lot of legit gripes about the game but so much has been made over meaningless or minor changes that it is silly. The game wasn't a stunning success in total but it also wasn't the spectacular failure some people seem to think and at the core of it is still a lot more of of a pure RPG than anything else on the market.

[Sidney]

Hammer6767 wrote...

*  Recycled environments, which are a result of either too short a design cycle, limited resources or laziness.
*  Spawning enemies...should have been implemented better than ninjas dropping from the sky.  This has nothing to do with DAO.
*  Inventory junk.  Just pointless waste of space.
*  Kirkwall did not feel alive (should have felt like cities in the Assassin's Creed series).  Templars didn't notice mages casting spells in the streets, guards didn't join battles, etc.
*  All of the quest bugs.  Technical glitches are there for any game, but DA2 had so many quest bugs that it was ridiculous for an AAA game.
.

Yeah but recall the attacks on the game started long before any of these were known. The holy warriors were on about race selection, companion armor, "action RPG" and other things long before the real issues with the game were found. If the game was just DAO with all the same issues you mentioned above there would have been a lot fewer gripes out of people.

[LyndseyCousland]

Also, instead of reading future interviews I'll just pay someone to urinate on me. I'll get the same amount of satisfaction from it.

[PSUHammer]

SirGladiator wrote...

It sounds like, from the interview, that Ray not only fully understands the main criticisms, but agrees with them as well, at least to a degree. And that's perfectly understandable, as they took their most popular game ever, made radical changes to it, and the sales tanked. Whatever the reason for it, you'd have to assume they'll be looking to make the next one more like the one that was the most successful, so I wouldn't be surprised to hear a lot more talk about returning to the 'spiritual successor to BG2' for DA3. Whether it ends up actually playing more like DAO or DA2 remains to be seen, but its only natural they'd want to at least move in that direction now. I imagine they'll try to make it the best of both worlds, not do the whole weird 'second wave out of nowhere' thing much if any, but keep the faster pace. Stuff like that, make it 'feel' more like DAO, even as it keeps the best of DA2, that's what will make DA3 the success that DA2 should've been.

I think most would be fine with that.  Or, at least Bioware designers try to cover the fact they are recycling areas.  For the most part, I don't need Origins 2.  I would be fine with another different DA game.  I just hope they keep advancing the game dynamics in a smart way and not remove some of the things that made DAO successful.  I am all about evolution, but some of the changes to DA2 were not evolution.

I hope your are right, though.

Sidney wrote...

Hammer6767 wrote...

* Recycled environments, which are a result of either too short a design cycle, limited resources or laziness.
* Spawning enemies...should have been implemented better than ninjas dropping from the sky. This has nothing to do with DAO.
* Inventory junk. Just pointless waste of space.
* Kirkwall did not feel alive (should have felt like cities in the Assassin's Creed series). Templars didn't notice mages casting spells in the streets, guards didn't join battles, etc.
* All of the quest bugs. Technical glitches are there for any game, but DA2 had so many quest bugs that it was ridiculous for an AAA game.
.

Yeah but recall the attacks on the game started long before any of these were known. The holy warriors were on about race selection, companion armor, "action RPG" and other things long before the real issues with the game were found. If the game was just DAO with all the same issues you mentioned above there would have been a lot fewer gripes out of people.

I remember. I am just saying that not all criticism is founded in those beliefs. I didn't care about the things you outlined. I preordered the game and was highly intrigued by the changes advertised in advance. The items I mentioned would be crappy even if DA2 was a stand alone game, though, and not a sequal.

Modifié par Hammer6767, 25 avril 2011 - 12:11 .

[Shadowbanner]

BobSmith101 wrote...

Speakeasy13 wrote...
Either you typo'd or you need better logic bro. Because that sentence contradicts itself.

There're semi-reliable week-to-week comparisons of the two games' sales, DA:O outsells DA2 in every week of release except the 1st one; and that 1st-week sales was obviously built on DA:O's momentum.

Not to mention ppl had to obviously buy the game b4 criticizing it. So all of these backlash doesn't 100% translate to DA2 sales; most likely it is DA3 that will suffer.

I'll explain the satire.

We are comparing current sales of DA to current sales of DA2. Not the week 1 sales of DA to the week 1 sales of DA2.

Point, game and match awarded to Mr Smith.