39 réponses à ce sujet

[WebShaman]

Sounds like you want a Melee Mage - http://nwn.bioware.c...463703&forum=42

This beast will handle any and all things that the OCs can throw at it solo. It can do everything.

If you want, you can also go dual wield (see the dual wielder MM in that thread) and deal out loads of damage.

I have used it to not only solo the OCs, but also to solo most PWs. It is tried and tested, my friend. There are even other variants based off it that may be more effective (add in some levels of Fighter, Ranger, etc for more flavor). Or perhaps Cleric (nothing like having an empowered Summons).

Enjoy!

[Elhanan]

ValKillYa wrote...

Hmmmm how? I knew that umd is to use class specific equipment without having that class chosen. Can you create
some wands? or other magical staff that may cast spells like improve insibility? :> How?

See here for UMD; much to explain, and varies according to Difficulty setting:

http://nwn.wikia.com...se_magic_device

As for item creation, those are using Feats assigned to Casters as a rule. For this kind of a PC, see Web's MM info above. As he mentioned, by adding for flavor, one may create a proper mix for indv taste. I love to play Wizard/ Rogue that uses UMD, thus gaining access to a makority of itms found in the game.

Modifié par Elhanan, 13 mai 2011 - 02:57 .

[MrZork]

If you play at hardcore or higher difficulty setting, keep in mind that using UMD to cast spells from scrolls isn't going to work consistently for this build in the OC. The UMD skill check DC for casting Improved Invisibility from a scroll is 29, which a character won't hit even half the time for almost all of the OC.

BTW, a non-pure melee mage (with a single level of fighter at level 2 or 3) is also very playable in the OC. A dwarf build along those lines plays well and the nice bump to fortitude save is helpful against all the poisoning and disease one is likely to encounter.

[qaerinju]

WebShaman wrote...

Sounds like you want a Melee Mage - http://nwn.bioware.c...463703&forum=42

I have used it to not only solo the OCs, but also to solo most PWs.

That's quite some claim. Even ignoring PWs that are no longer around that must amount to some serious game time.
Consider renaming the build from "Melee Mage" to "Mage". Though I can see the irony in using the word melee to describe a character with no discernable melee presence.

[Elhanan]

qaerinju wrote...

WebShaman wrote...

Sounds like you want a Melee Mage - http://nwn.bioware.c...463703&forum=42

I have used it to not only solo the OCs, but also to solo most PWs.

That's quite some claim. Even ignoring PWs that are no longer around that must amount to some serious game time.
Consider renaming the build from "Melee Mage" to "Mage". Though I can see the irony in using the word melee to describe a character with no discernable melee presence.

*winces; then sits back and waits while munching on popcorn*

HINT: This is a base design that has seen the light of day for quite a few years now.

[WebShaman]

qaerinju wrote...

WebShaman wrote...

Sounds like you want a Melee Mage - http://nwn.bioware.c...463703&forum=42

I have used it to not only solo the OCs, but also to solo most PWs.

That's quite some claim. Even ignoring PWs that are no longer around that must amount to some serious game time.
Consider renaming the build from "Melee Mage" to "Mage". Though I can see the irony in using the word melee to describe a character with no discernable melee presence.

I rather like this inquery.  It shows intelligence and is someone who is not gullible, or at least appears not to be.

Qaerinju, I have been playing NWN since it came out.  I have played on numerous PWs, and as I released the MM (Melee Mage) build to the public after years of playing it and refining it, many others tested the build on their respective PWs as well.  Feedback was favorable.  I know from experience, that many PWs had to change how things work to make things harder for this particular build, mostly due to the unbelievable effectiveness of it, especially as a Solo machine.

As I have been on the Staff of various PWs, we had to undertake changes to prevent such builds from "running the show" - and it proved fairly difficult to do so (especially as it is one of the Base classes!).  As anyone who has done building knows, nerfing spells, the combat system, etc., often results in a domino effect that unbalances the entire system, and creates more problems than it solves.

Note that as MrZork has pointed out, one can do variations on the build (varying from the "pure MM") by adding in levels of other classes (I believe that Kail pioneered this in the beginning, quite successfully I might add - correct me if I am wrong, please). 

@ Lowlander *sigh* - if the Player wants, they can include Rogue levels for some sneak attacks as well.  I would not recommend more than 3, however, for the OC.  YMMV.  At Epic levels, one can really have some fun with mixing levels.

One thing that can be quite effective is including a level of Assassin to get access to Death Attack.  Since it is based on Int (partially, at least) and Mages are Int based classes, it can be quite effective, especially if one is using lots of Impr. Invis (make scrolls...fun, fun, fun!).

[qaerinju]

Sure pure mages can easily solo many PWs. But that's pretty much down to extreme casting power rather than melee prowess.

[Elhanan]

Lowlander wrote...

Now I understand why you think your beliefs are proven facts, everything you do is superior. You built a mage with some melee buffs and he was so powerful they had to change the PW after all. How your opinons be less than facts after that.   I am sure lone goblins trembled.

Imagine if you built a Cleric with some melee buffs the PW would have imploded because of your pure awesomeness. But I understand you holding back.

Ah yes, the condescending sigh, a sure sign of superiority if ever there was one.

He has been clear from the start and even reiterated a couple of times, he wants a build centered around sneak attacks and lots of them. Not a mage with 2d6 sneak and few of them, that will barely hit. He already played a mage.

If you could actually deign to read his posts, and actually give him build advice he was asking for, no doubt it would put our meager offerings to shame.

I can attest to the MM being nerfed on a PW, as I went there to play soon after Web left due to the changes.; goes more to prove the old saying about assumumption, and you.

And if you had read the prefacing posts, someone had asked about Item creation, and UMD while quite effective does not fit that bill. Context is a wonderful thing....

Modifié par Elhanan, 15 mai 2011 - 04:42 .

[MrZork]

Lowlander wrote...

According to the nwnwiki, the difficulty changes for scrolls was added in Hordes, it does not effect the Original Campaign.

Very true. I read earlier in the thread that the OP was thinking about a build that would work in Hordes as well. I'll admit I didn't read some of the later posts that closely and I agree that UMD for scrolls is fine for a pre-Hordes build (or one meant for play with a less-than-Hardcore difficulty setting).

BTW (unrelated to this build but related to UMD and scrolls), though the wiki entry mentions it briefly, the HotU UMD implementation can really nerf the scroll-using ability of a cleric, druid, or any non-bard/sorc/wiz caster. Basically, an 18th level cleric can take a level of rogue and put a point into UMD and suddenly find that s/he can't cast Cure Light Wounds from a scroll.

[WebShaman]

qaerinju wrote...

Sure pure mages can easily solo many PWs. But that's pretty much down to extreme casting power rather than melee prowess.

This is of course true - Mages do have the ultimate in casting power.  But this is balanced (supposedly) by a lack of melee prowess.  The MM (Melee Mage) build shatters this misconception.

So imagine that you have the ultimate in casting power, combined with a powerful melee prescence.  That is one of the main points of the Melee Mage.

The Melee Mage was basically created out of my desire to use my Mage solo to get through the mobs to the boss to kill it, and get back out.  I kept finding that trying to do so with just spells was resulting in me running out of spells that I was going to have to use against the boss.

An unsatisfactory result.

The Melee Mage can melee the mobs, saving spells to use on the boss (should it be necessary).  That was what it was created for, and it does this very well.  Refinements to this (such as adding in levels of other classes, etc) can and do make it even more effective.  It is a very versatile build.

@ Lowlander *sigh* - lots of venom in your post, so I will skip most of that.  The CoDzilla is a known and recognized lopsided part of 3.0 D&D.  No need to go there. 

As for the "most powerful build" - well, I believe that Cedaulopp (sp?) has that distinction - he created Puff the Magic Dragon (and succinctive versions).  It was so powerful that (supposedly) Bioware patched the engine to prevent it from being possible (I believe this was added in with the last patch iirc).  In any regards, since the last patch it is not possible to build a Puff the Magic Dragon ver 1 or 2 anymore due to rule changes in the engine.

It truly was an engine of destruction!  My MM has a much humbler claim to fame as such lofty builds (and I will readily admit that there are much more talented build builders as I!).

To the OP (original poster) - the MM does offer an alternative route to solo the OCs (and just about any mod, really).  Perhaps it will be something that you might wish to look into.  Wizards in general are pretty much "ready made" for item creation (just really need to obtain the feats).  They already come with Scribe Scroll as a bonus.

Have fun!

[SmkNThDrkNght]

Just wanted to say that Webs Melee Mage was suprisingly versitile and fun to play. I made a dexer version with 2 assassin and 1 shadow dancer levels pre epic and had a blast playing thru the o.c. , shadows and hordes. Now this was a few years ago now but im sure it still works. o.p. you could give it a shot it might suprise you.