282 réponses à ce sujet

[Tommy6860]

XFemShepX wrote...

Mad-Max90 wrote...

InB4 the defenders rush in and call you a troll because of your opinions, which I agree with

lol

I agree, too, not that it means anything.

I agree with your assessment, it depicts near the same experience I had with two thorough runs of the game. For me though, it was even more than just the issues you listed. My main gripe is that it doesn't play like an RPG and I felt little connection to a story that just didn't form with all the disjointed fedex quests I was required to do. It plays like an action/adventure game in which very little of my decision making has anything to do with the plot states, if I can define a plot state im which I can have an impact. I have very little connection with my companions and expecially little emotion for my family during the course of the game, they were just there, talking when it was there time.

[Elhanan]

sub·jec·tive =  [suhb-jek-tiv]

–adjective
1. existing in the mind; belonging to the thinking subject rather than to the object of thought ( opposed to objective).

2. pertaining to or characteristic of an individual; personal; individual: a subjective evaluation.

3. placing excessive emphasis on one's own moods, attitudes, opinions, etc.; unduly egocentric.

Dictionary.com

[Ariella]

[quote]Gotholhorakh wrote...

[quote]Ariella wrote...

[quote]Gotholhorakh wrote...

[quote]Elhanan wrote...

Everyone is entitled to an informed opinion; even those that disagree with yours. [/quote]

Can I just say that I feel this is an unfair tone to end your response with, I don't think I've ever suggested that other people aren't entitled to disagree with me or anyone else - and in fact I was responding to someone telling me I don't have "legitimate gripes".

[/quote]

Then maybe one should not belittle a game breaking bug that keeps player from experiencing part of the game, and forces them to reload, while complaining about not liking the exploding bodies.


The legitmate, as in a factual, gripe is the repeated maps. A legitmate gripe is the bug that caused the Isabella problem. Those are facts to prove your accusation of the game being
slipshod. And if you're used those, I may have been willing to conceed a
possibility,
[/quote]

Thanks for your definition of what is a "legitimate" gripe for someone else to have. Most magnanimous of you.

With respect, it's obviously meaningless to "define" this for other people, your opinion is no more definitive than mine or anyone else's.
[/quote]

You were referring back to a post I personally made, and taking it out of the context in which is was made. You said that the game was slipshod: marked by carelessness, sloppyness, or slovenly. To prove that you require facts, not subjective criticism, thus a "legitimate" gripe in that context would be factual not an opinion.


{quote]
[quote]
 but most of your accusations are subjective,
[/quote]

and what is your opinion, objective fact?
[/quote]

We aren't discussing my opinion but yours here. I specifically asked you at the beginning of all this how much of your accusation was informed by fact and how much was informed by subjective opinion. You proceeded to give me a list, which I went through and point out that of that list there was one factual point which could be used to argue your accusation. You, then, decided to play semantic games, take things out of context and generally look to be insulted.

[quote]


[quote]
and don't prove that the game was in any way slip shod, just that you didn't like it. Your right, but it doesn't make for a legimate complaint that the game was slipshod in production.
[/quote]

You seem to be under the impression that you've successfully argued that DA2 isn''t slipshod, slapdash and half finished, or that viewing it as such is some outlandish fantasy, or that there's some kind of equivalence between it and DA:O for unimplemented stuff.

You haven't, you know.

If you want to do that, you're going to have to do a lot more than try and criticise my opinion for being subjective - the most blatant straw man argument ever, because everybody's opinion is subjective and I never said otherwise.

I'd be interested to see you bring a persuasive argument yourself as to why the vast numbers of people expressing the sentiment that this game is unfinished or a let down are wrong, rather than trying to argue with a position I haven't taken, and I think that you probably can't.

You may consider that a challenge if you like, I would be genuinely interested.

[/quote]

I don't have to do anything, my dear, but if you're going to make statements like slipshod, it's not up top anyone to prove you wrong, it up to you to prove you right.

But since I am here:

VA is tight (as in no studders caused by the game). no dropped lines and matches the subtitles.
Tech assistance is responsive and trying to be as transparent as possible (see below in the tech forums)
tech assistance has been decently quick considering the timeframe we're talking about (2 patches in a month for Pc and 1 patch for console)
Developement team, especially John Epler, have been responsive to discussing concerns with people on these boards( example):
http://social.biowar...ex/7234449&lf=8
Game runs even on lower power machines for PC (playing DA2 on a HP notebook windows 7  ATI Raedon 4200 series vid card)
Graphics are managable for lower powered machines.

These facts show don't show a slipshod attitude toward the game by the developer or that the game itself is slipshod.

My main issue is with your use of words. If you had expressed your dislike of the game in terms of that dislike, that would have been find, but you chose a word who's denotation and conotation require facts to back up its use, not opinions.

[HeliusOD]

"Game runs even on lower power machines for PC (playing DA2 on a HP notebook windows 7 ATI Raedon 4200 series vid card)
Graphics are managable for lower powered machines."


so its a mediocre game designed for mediocre pcs........

[Einherjar420]

HeliusOD wrote...

"Game runs even on lower power machines for PC (playing DA2 on a HP notebook windows 7 ATI Raedon 4200 series vid card)
Graphics are managable for lower powered machines."


so its a mediocre game designed for mediocre pcs........

Or a great game designed for anyone to play.

[Ariella]

HeliusOD wrote...

"Game runs even on lower power machines for PC (playing DA2 on a HP notebook windows 7 ATI Raedon 4200 series vid card)
Graphics are managable for lower powered machines."


so its a mediocre game designed for mediocre pcs........

Nope, it's a game that anyone can play without having to bankrupt themselves buying a high end machine, which is a GOOD thing because it opens up their market to more gamers.

[Dragoonlordz]

Ariella wrote...

HeliusOD wrote...

"Game runs even on lower power machines for PC (playing DA2 on a HP notebook windows 7 ATI Raedon 4200 series vid card)
Graphics are managable for lower powered machines."


so its a mediocre game designed for mediocre pcs........

Nope, it's a game that anyone can play without having to bankrupt themselves buying a high end machine, which is a GOOD thing because it opens up their market to more gamers.

But limiting the game quality and mechanics based on range of machines wish to play on, will and does only decrease the quality of the product itself. Where do you draw the line, would it be applicable to reduce the quality sufficient enough to play on 5 y/o machines or as far back as 10-15 just incase. A game should be designed to play on the highest spec machines with the ability to tone it down via graphics and sound settings to accommodate the lower end not reduce the title down to the lowest common denominator from the offset. 

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 04 mai 2011 - 05:12 .

[Inzhuna]

...This is a problem that is "constantly ignored"? People have been complaining about your "fundamental problem" long before the game was released.

[HeliusOD]

Einherjar420 wrote...

HeliusOD wrote...

"Game runs even on lower power machines for PC (playing DA2 on a HP notebook windows 7 ATI Raedon 4200 series vid card)
Graphics are managable for lower powered machines."


so its a mediocre game designed for mediocre pcs........

Or a great game designed for anyone to play.

yes thats right mr xbox the game was desgned for you.......

[Mad-Max90]

I think the real problem was in the "False Advertising" approach to marketing, you simply can't advertise one game then give us another

[Mad-Max90]

Oh and I play on the xbox, I hated this game, so please stop saying that all of us playing on console actually support this crap game

[Ariella]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Ariella wrote...

HeliusOD wrote...

"Game runs even on lower power machines for PC (playing DA2 on a HP notebook windows 7 ATI Raedon 4200 series vid card)
Graphics are managable for lower powered machines."


so its a mediocre game designed for mediocre pcs........

Nope, it's a game that anyone can play without having to bankrupt themselves buying a high end machine, which is a GOOD thing because it opens up their market to more gamers.

But limiting the game quality and mechanics based on range of machines wish to play on, will and does only decrease the quality of the product itself. Where do you draw the line, would it be applicable to reduce the quality sufficient enough to play on 5 y/o machines or as far back as 10-15 just incase. A game should be designed to play on the highest spec machines with the ability to tone it down via graphics and sound settings to accompodate the lower end not reduce the title down to the lowest common denominator from the offset. 

We'll have to agree to disagree here. Games should be able to be run on average machines without having to spend a fortune to play a game that's going to cost another 50-60 buck.

Stop the slippery slop before you fall down it.

[Boiny Bunny]

Ariella wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Ariella wrote...

HeliusOD wrote...

"Game runs even on lower power machines for PC (playing DA2 on a HP notebook windows 7 ATI Raedon 4200 series vid card)
Graphics are managable for lower powered machines."


so its a mediocre game designed for mediocre pcs........

Nope, it's a game that anyone can play without having to bankrupt themselves buying a high end machine, which is a GOOD thing because it opens up their market to more gamers.

But limiting the game quality and mechanics based on range of machines wish to play on, will and does only decrease the quality of the product itself. Where do you draw the line, would it be applicable to reduce the quality sufficient enough to play on 5 y/o machines or as far back as 10-15 just incase. A game should be designed to play on the highest spec machines with the ability to tone it down via graphics and sound settings to accompodate the lower end not reduce the title down to the lowest common denominator from the offset. 

We'll have to agree to disagree here. Games should be able to be run on average machines without having to spend a fortune to play a game that's going to cost another 50-60 buck.

Stop the slippery slop before you fall down it.

IMO a good, or rather, well designed game (I suppose the two can certainly be mutually exclusive), should be able to run on low-medium level PCs at the lowest settings, but have features that take advantage of very high end PCs as well.

It's no more fair to say games should be tailored to those without high end PCs than it is to say they should be tailored to those that do have high end PCs.

For example, in DA2, Bioware easily could have implemented a checkbox which filled Kirkwall up with hundreds more people and made it a more lively place, which would most likely only work well on higher end PCs (something Bioware themselves admitted to cutting from the game as it wouldn't work well on low end PCs or the consoles).

That said, Bioware games have never really been about pushing hardware to its limits.  I'm more than happy to play a fairly average looking game if it has a great plot.  The problem sets in when you get a city like Kirkwall that feels much more devoid of life than it should - which partly breaks the immersion factor (for me at least).

Modifié par Boiny Bunny, 03 mai 2011 - 04:48 .

[Mad-Max90]

Hmmmm... Consoles can have a lot more people packed into a city than you guys give credit just look at the assassin's creed games, it's not that hard they were just lazy, so please don't excuse bioware's laziness with oh consoles cant run well with a lot of people on screen, because assassin's creed ran without a hitch on the trusty ol' xbox

[Ariella]

Boiny Bunny wrote...

Ariella wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Ariella wrote...

HeliusOD wrote...

"Game runs even on lower power machines for PC (playing DA2 on a HP notebook windows 7 ATI Raedon 4200 series vid card)
Graphics are managable for lower powered machines."


so its a mediocre game designed for mediocre pcs........

Nope, it's a game that anyone can play without having to bankrupt themselves buying a high end machine, which is a GOOD thing because it opens up their market to more gamers.

But limiting the game quality and mechanics based on range of machines wish to play on, will and does only decrease the quality of the product itself. Where do you draw the line, would it be applicable to reduce the quality sufficient enough to play on 5 y/o machines or as far back as 10-15 just incase. A game should be designed to play on the highest spec machines with the ability to tone it down via graphics and sound settings to accompodate the lower end not reduce the title down to the lowest common denominator from the offset. 

We'll have to agree to disagree here. Games should be able to be run on average machines without having to spend a fortune to play a game that's going to cost another 50-60 buck.

Stop the slippery slop before you fall down it.

IMO a good, or rather, well designed game (I suppose the two can certainly be mutually exclusive), should be able to run on low-medium level PCs at the lowest settings, but have features that take advantage of very high end PCs as well.

It's no more fair to say games should be tailored to those without high end PCs than it is to say they should be tailored to those that do have high end PCs.

For example, in DA2, Bioware easily could have implemented a checkbox which filled Kirkwall up with hundreds more people and made it a more lively place, which would most likely only work well on higher end PCs (something Bioware themselves admitted to cutting from the game as it wouldn't work well on low end PCs or the consoles).

That said, Bioware games have never really been about pushing hardware to its limits.  I'm more than happy to play a fairly average looking game if it has a great plot.  The problem sets in when you get a city like Kirkwall that feels much more devoid of life than it should - which partly breaks the immersion factor (for me at least).

This I can accept, and is completely logical. My only object is to the idea that gaming should be a hobby for those who can afford 5000 USD gaming rigs.

And I've said again and again about Kirkwall, my immersion there was never really based on the number of bodies I saw walking around (though the huckster with the cure all was PRICELESS). I got it more from the cramped spaces, and just the feeling that there should be a sign over the main gate and at the Gallows: "Abandon hope all ye who enter here."  Kirkwall feels like a prison and the only two kinds of people who are there are those who can't get out, and those who are clinging to what power they have. I keep calling it a hellmouth. It's the corruption of 1920s Chicago meets Fantasy and a little horror too. It's a combination of things I can't put into words.

I want the genre of cRPGs to be open to anyone who loves RPGs, no matter what system they play.

[Ariella]

Mad-Max90 wrote...

Hmmmm... Consoles can have a lot more people packed into a city than you guys give credit just look at the assassin's creed games, it's not that hard they were just lazy, so please don't excuse bioware's laziness with oh consoles cant run well with a lot of people on screen, because assassin's creed ran without a hitch on the trusty ol' xbox

Both Fable 2 and 3 packed a lot of people into the cities, but that's not what made them live at the end of the day.

Not saying that maybe a few more people walking the streets would be welcome. More I think changing the audio cues through the year periods would do a better job with ambient noice or commentary.

[Boiny Bunny]

Ariella wrote...

I want the genre of cRPGs to be open to anyone who loves RPGs, no matter what system they play.

I absolutely agree! 

I wish developers would try and achieve this!  They could actually design a game that works well on nearly all systems, and takes full advantage of advanced hardware where present - making everybody happy!  (as opposed to fitting a rather poor line through the middle, resulting in a game that low end PCs still can't play, and is hardly improved at all on an extreme end PC).

[Mad-Max90]

I was just stating that it can be done on consoles too even mass effect 2's cities seemed more livelier in comparison to dragon age 2, even the first mass effect seemed more livelier than dragon age 2, it's all in the ambiance and the whitenoise, really, to have npcs trying to sell you goods or get money from you or even have conversations with other npcs, that would have greatly increased the value, hell even put in the rustling sounds of sails and the pulling rope sound when on the docks. You need more noise, you can have all the npcs you want but without noise it seems dead and lifeless, ofcourse more than 25 non changing npcs per area would have been nicer but hey what can I do

[Booger]

I agree totally with OP and especially Sabriana. They took out everything essential to RPGs and everything we love about them. The companion customization, exploring, epic story. I think they should all wash their hands of DA3 and put another team in charge. If their target audience is gamers who like to run around the same places and kill people, they should go make shooters. Please, leave the franchise to people who love CRPGs.

[graavigala85]

The thing I have noticed in these days games is that if something is whined and said it feels bad they dont tweak it, they go over the top and make it again, mostly to the bad and wrong. This happens most in western games, in eastern games they just slap more sparkle over it and keep it the same.

[Einherjar420]

HeliusOD wrote...

Einherjar420 wrote...

HeliusOD wrote...

"Game runs even on lower power machines for PC (playing DA2 on a HP notebook windows 7 ATI Raedon 4200 series vid card)
Graphics are managable for lower powered machines."


so its a mediocre game designed for mediocre pcs........

Or a great game designed for anyone to play.

yes thats right mr xbox the game was desgned for you.......

Do you have a point here? Or are you another one of those people who think that someone who owns a console doesn't know what's good for them?

I started playing video games on the Nintendo Entertainment System, and went from there. I spent from 2002 - 2007 playing video games on a computer, then switched back to consoles because I prefer the use of a controller.

I've seen the flaws of Dragon Age II. I've also seen the flaws of Dragon Age: Origins. I've seen the flaws of Fallout 3, Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion, Final Fantasy I - XIII, including the side projects, Resident Evil 1 - 5, including side projects, every Legend of Zelda(they can't exactly be numbered), Mega Man 4 - 9, including Mega Man 64, and many, many more. I've also seen what makes those games great. In my opinion, the pros in every game I listed far outweigh the cons.

Computers and Consoles also have their pros and cons. I'm currently saving up for a new computer to play Star Wars: the Old Republic and Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim, and also hoping those games support a controller. The only thing that I enjoy more about a computer than a console, are the mods that can be done. it's quite fascinating to see what some people can do. However, if it weren't for the mods, I'd stick to consoles.

I know my video games, and I am a proud gamer. So please, tell me what the point of your quote was. I'm interested.

[planed scaped]

All the developer interviews just lead me to beleive that Bioware is either completely out of touch. Or more likely, they don't give a flying **** about older fans because newer fans are easier to please and worth more profitz.

Origins was a game both older and newer gamers could love, hence why it sold so much. DA2 was a pile of **** that no one loves(except rabid Biofluffers). Hence why it hasn't sold that great.

Yet Bioware are only going to go down the DA2 path more with future games from everything I have read and seen.

Modifié par planed scaped, 04 mai 2011 - 05:03 .

[Haexpane]

Rockpopple wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

Reinveil wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

W-wait, I thought Mass Effect 1 had more sex/nudity than Mass Effect 2... o_O

It did.  Naked blue ass says hi!

Maybe it had more PG-13 skin, but ME2 was more sexually charged.  The entire story of ME2 is "don't forget to bone the hawties before you fight the big bad!" 

Did... did I play a tamer version of ME2 than you? Cuz I'd like your sexy version. In my version I had the option not to have Shepard bone anyone...and I took it. 

Come on, I think a reasonable conversation can be had without resorting to hyperbole. :happy:

You have  a Sisko from Deep Space 9 avatar... YOU WIN!  The real Hawke has spoken.  Spencer Baby

[Cochy]

Getting back to what the OP was saying. I think this tidbit from Wikipedia entry for DA2 says it all:

"During the pre-development of the game, Brent Knowles, a veteran lead designer who had been with Bioware for a decade and the central figurehead behind Dragon Age: Origins, decided to resign during the designing process of Dragon Age 2 and eventually left the company, stating “I’m not the same person I was when I started, and BioWare isn’t the same company.”[11] He later went on to clarify his decision to leave, elaborating "I never thought Dragon Age 2 would be a terrible game. It was just that a highly cinematic, action-leaning RPG wasn’t what I wanted to work on. That is all."[12] After playing the game's demo, he praised how polished and immersive it was, but mentioned that its combat had identity issues and did not seem to fit properly into either the action or RPG genre. In an overall assessment he felt that it was a strong title, especially considering the short development cycle, and called the demo "promising", though the amount of changes from the first title in the series seemed excessive to him, citing gameplay issues and the lack of ability to play as another race than human.[13]"

I guess Bioware isn't the same dev we all loved. What a shame it would be to ruin some of the best original content (Dragon Age) I've seen in a long time.

[Haexpane]

Rockpopple wrote...

@ Haex - So you're problem with Mass Effect 2 was with Miranda. She wasn't the focus of the whole game, though. Heck, you could choose to not interact with her at all as soon as you have another teammember that can fill in her place. To say that Mass Effect 2 revolved around sex because of Miranda's booty is a little ridiculous. It's still hyperbole, so I'm sticking with my original comment. 

 .

Should I post "Jack" pics too?  I actually liked Miranda's character.  Jack was the typical annoying "I was abused, so na0 I'm a ****, but I really want love, OMG I don't know how to love" trope... half nekkid of course.

I like sex, I like sexually charged videogames.  The female form is my favorite thing to look at, IN THE WORLD.

But ME1 had better gameplay, it was more like an RPG, stats affected combat, levels were more open, the story was not "go talk to your bros then fight the bad guy" as much etc...

I didn't dislike ME2, it's just meh to me.  I LOVED ME1 like it was a kitten.  ME2 was just A very pretty cover shooter with LOTS of talking and annoying stereotypical takes on females.

• The sexy admin assistant for anyone who wants to get all Mad Men
• The crazy abused chick for people who like rescue cases
• The plastic surgery hollywood chick for megan fox fans