282 réponses à ce sujet

[heathxxx]

Basically, I pre-ordered on the basis of the game being a "sequel". Now although I'm not crying for "more of the same", I'm certainly not impressed with the turd that was shovelled in front of me.

That fact that characters from DA:O made pointless "cameo" appearances, made the whole thing even more laughable...

My biggest gripe, is that as a different IP, this game probably would have been ok. Not great, but ok. Riding on the back of DA:O and its success though... then to fail on aspects that mostly weren't DA:O related, is pretty poor.

[toggled]

To the OP:

There's nothing bizarre about Dragon Age 2. The entire concept of the game was to capitalize on the success of Origins and Bioware's sterling reputation in order to make a quick buck. It was a business decision... a decision that will haunt Bioware for years to come, but their decision to make nonetheless.

As for the interviews you cited, it's apparent that Bioware employees are in denial mode. I'm uncertain whether they are in denial because they have actually talked themselves into believing DA2 is a great game, or if certain high level individuals are engaging in a little CYA.

[Elhanan]

heathxxx wrote...

Basically, I pre-ordered on the basis of the game being a "sequel". Now although I'm not crying for "more of the same", I'm certainly not impressed with the turd that was shovelled in front of me.

That fact that characters from DA:O made pointless "cameo" appearances, made the whole thing even more laughable...

My biggest gripe, is that as a different IP, this game probably would have been ok. Not great, but ok. Riding on the back of DA:O and its success though... then to fail on aspects that mostly weren't DA:O related, is pretty poor.

Perhaps it was made to reflect the growing fan base seen posting here oif late?

[Dragoonlordz]

Morroian wrote...

Saintthanksgiving wrote...

I would like to know what I should have expected when I bought a game with a "2" at the end of the title. 

Do you expect Final Fantasy XII to be the same as Final Fantasy 1?

From the offset day one has been explained through development each time that every FF game was intended to tell a new story, both worlds/plots and characters with each game, out of the 14+ being/been made only 3 have/are sequels if i recall. The difference here is DA2 was supposed to be the same world and was even mentioned they kept all the best bits from DAO to keep fans happy while they tried new things to bring in new players. What they did was take away the best bits of DAO and gave us the things people were complaining about followed by vast changes in every regard from combat, skills, stats, customisation, party interaction, quests and plot/story etc.The only thing that stayed the same was being part of the DAO lore tbh.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 26 avril 2011 - 12:23 .

[Dragoonlordz]

Elhanan wrote...
Perhaps it was made to reflect the growing fan base seen posting here oif late?

The fanbase is not growing it is in fact shrinking, take a look at the sales figures (as close and accurate as people can get). Quick start due to pre-orders and dropping faster than DAO ever did. These new fans would come mainly after initial few weeks sales which given the sales slowing down at an amazing pace faster than I have seen in most recent games, shows that they are not attracting new fans but in reality just pissed off a large amount of the old ones.

There are around 5-10 people on these forums heavily defending DA2 but the majority at least on the (forums) here do not like DA2. DA2 made a good start due to the quality of DAO and baring the name Dragon Age in DA2 but it is dropping/slowing down faster than DAO ever did. Do you honestly believe that based off the reaction and sales of DA2 that the pre-orders and sales of DA3 will be better than the super fast dropping of sales happening right now as a follow up from DA2 as opposed to if had been a follow up of DAO instead.

[Brockololly]

Saintthanksgiving wrote...

Every time I read an interview with one of the developers there is some kind of reference to people being dissapointed in the game because they were expecting it to be:

"origins 2" or
"more like origins" or
"two archdemons stapled together" - my personal favorite

I would like to know what I should have expected when I bought a game with a "2" at the end of the title.  Why is this just accepted as an apparent oversight on the part of the consumer here? 

*snip*

  I just want some type of explanation from someone... anyone.... as to why I'm supposed to accept the fact that DA2 was a complete departure from its predecessor.  More than that, I would like to know why I was apparently expected to know about these drastic changes BEFORE I bought it.

I genuinely think BioWare royally screwed up by calling this game Dragon Age 2. They should have left it as they had it with:

At least then, you're not saddling the game with certain expectations you as the developer know won't be met for certain people in  your audience.

But it seems BioWare thought their audience was too stupid to figure out DA:Exodus was a new game and we'd need a giant number 2 to explain things. Still, doesn't explain why they didn't go the BG or Elder Scrolls route and just name it Dragon Age II: Exodus. Most of the issues with DA2 (IMO) stem from the developers simplifying things that didn't need to be simplified in part because it seemed they though the audience for the game (or the audience they were trying to reach) was to stupid or addled with ADHD to understand what was going on.


But on the subject of what makes a sequel, it seems clear BioWare didn't follow the rule of thirds for a sequel- Have one third old, one third new and one third improved. You read that article and one of the key things seems to be:

"We really knew we had to retain the soul of the original," said  Chilton. "...This is where we really knew we could **** it up." The  game's world was inviting, but "the content and the mechanics were  showing their age," said Chilton.

As a general rule, Chilton suggested the rule of thirds for an update or sequel to a game: 1/3 old, 1/3 improved and 1/3 new. In all, Chilton  advised not to forget what made your game great in the first place. "Know what was great about awesome game one, and keep that for awesome  game two," he said.

It just seemed to me that Laidlaw and Darrah didn't really get what made Origins "awesome." Which is worrying, seeing as they're the 2 guys most in charge of DA as a whole.
That and they misconstrued certain things they maybe saw as improvements like the voiced PC, when actually they were more something entirely different and new, all the while gutting old things like companion inventory, origin stories, finishing moves and so forth. The end result is a game which really doesn't retain very much of the "old," leaving so much "new" that it alienates fans of the "old" while much of the "improved" really isn't improved" but rather just more "new"- with much of the "new" and improved" being met with mixed reaction anyway.

Modifié par Brockololly, 26 avril 2011 - 12:23 .

[Elhanan]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

The fanbase is not growing it is in fact shrinking, take a look at the sales figures (as close and accurate as people can get). Quick start due to pre-orders and dropping faster than DAO ever did. These new fans would come mainly after initial few weeks sales which given the sales slowing down at an amazing pace faster than I have seen in most recent games, shows that they are not attracting new fans but in reality just pissed off a large amount of the old ones.

There are around 5-10 people on these forums heavily defending DA2 but the majority at least on the (forums) here do not like DA2. DA2 made a good start due to the quality of DAO and baring the name Dragon Age in DA2 but it is dropping/slowing down faster than DAO ever did. Do you honestly believe that based off the reaction and sales of DA2 that the pre-orders and sales of DA3 will be better than the super fast dropping of sales happening right now as a follow up from DA2 as opposed to if had been a follow up of DAO instead.

http://www.gamasutra..._March_2011.php

[Rockpopple]

Once again: It's not called Dragon Age: Origins 2.

So calling it Dragon Age: Kirkwall or Dragon Age: Exodus or Dragon Age: In my pants wouldn't have made a difference, since what links Dragon Age 2 to Dragon Age: Origins is Dragon Age.

[Dragoonlordz]

ROFL Nordic top of lists wow, what a nice drop in the ocean that is... How about you list Aprils which is this month. I can do that too, bestsellers on Amazon DA2 is way, way down at 38/100 on PC, on 360 it's 46/100 and PS3 it's not even in the top 100.

[Elhanan]

From Amazon.com current page:

Amazon Bestsellers Rank: #414 in Video Games (See Top 100 in Video Games)
#8 in Video Games > PC Games > Role-Playing
#33 in Video Games > PC Games > All Games

[Dragoonlordz]

Elhanan wrote...

From Amazon.com current page:

Amazon Bestsellers Rank: #414 in Video Games (See Top 100 in Video Games)
#8 in Video Games > PC Games > Role-Playing
#33 in Video Games > PC Games > All Games

Even in roleplaying only sections it's still not top, I looked too on all formats. Sorry to break it to you but it's not a run away success like you have convinced yourself of and your fooling noone.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 26 avril 2011 - 01:11 .

[Elhanan]

Presenting stats is almost always fooling someone; just trying to keep up with a pro....

[Dragoonlordz]

Elhanan wrote...

Presenting stats is almost always fooling someone; just trying to keep up with a pro....

You failed.

You are merely grasping at straws, unfortunately your constantly picking the short ones.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 26 avril 2011 - 01:18 .

[Ariella]

Elhanan wrote...

Presenting stats is almost always fooling someone; just trying to keep up with a pro....

Ouch....

[Dragoonlordz]

Ariella wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

Presenting stats is almost always fooling someone; just trying to keep up with a pro....

Ouch....

Given my reply was in relation to his introduction of stats via his beloved link like I said, he fails.

[Elhanan]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

You failed.

You are merely grasping at straws, unfortunately your constantly picking the short ones.

Simply attempting to match your wit....

As for the game, perhaps the Fundemental flaw is being released during a time of global crisis. With economic unrest and catastrophes seen around the world, all sales of games appear to be down a bit.


http://www.gamasutra...s_Worldwide.php

http://www.gamasutra...re_In_March.php

Modifié par Elhanan, 26 avril 2011 - 01:32 .

[Ariella]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Ariella wrote...

Elhanan wrote...

Presenting stats is almost always fooling someone; just trying to keep up with a pro....

Ouch....

Given my reply was in relation to his introduction of stats via his beloved link like I said, he fails.

I know exactly what your reply was to, I read it, and the old chestnut of lies, damn lies, and statistics seems to fit here.

[Dragoonlordz]

Elhanan wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

You failed.

You are merely grasping at straws, unfortunately your constantly picking the short ones.

Simply attempting to match your wit....

As for the game, perhaps the Fundemental flaw is being released during a time of global crisis. With economic unrest and catastrophes seen around the world, all sales of games appear to be down a bit.


http://www.gamasutra...s_Worldwide.php

http://www.gamasutra...re_In_March.php

Even in your 'new' links it shows that DA2 is not doing well, only place selling even near top is UK and thats on Amazon's UK sales, now try not to get confused by this but have you even looked at Amazon itself? I have to ask because if you did then you would see that the price in UK of DA2 has dropped faster than most recent games in all genres. It's half price on all formats (PS3 and 360) with PC version under £13 after a VERY short time it's been out. Keep in mind that for April when buy DA2 you get free PC copy of ME2, your buying 2 for 1 deal and the ME2 is by far more sought after than DA2 going by Amazons own lists stating that it (ME2) is higher on bestseller list than DA2 for all formats.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 26 avril 2011 - 01:48 .

[jds1bio]

You guys back-and-forth about the stats and sales are only lending creedence to the truth contained in the topic of this thread. You know, the truth that is the fundamental problems being ignored in favor of citing the (unmeasurable) size of the fanbase, dropping down sales stats which have nothing to do with total hours that DA2 has been played, ignoring most of the other threads on this forum that are talking about pertinent issues related to the DA games (past, present, and future), and topping it off by highlighting (alleged) failures of others during a period of time where you yourself have absolutely nothing better going on.

[Elhanan]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

Even in your 'new' links it shows that DA2 is not doing well, only place selling even near top is UK and thats on Amazon's UK sales, now try not to get confused by this but have you even looked at Amazon itself? I have to ask because if you did then you would see that the price in UK of DA2 has dropped faster than most recent games in all genres. It's half price on all formats (PS3 and 360) with PC version under £13 after a VERY short time it's been out. Keep in mind that for April when buy DA2 you get free PC copy of ME2, your buying 2 for 1 deal and the ME2 is by far more sought after than DA2 going by Amazons own lists stating that it (ME2) is higher on bestseller list than DA2 for all formats.

No; I managed to get the current Amazon.com standings for the game by osmosis....

Yes; all sales are down, including DA2. However, it still is within the top numbers given in a couple different areas. Now while some may wish to judge sales by price indicators, I leave this to others that dewll in the world of lies called stats.

Modifié par Elhanan, 26 avril 2011 - 01:55 .

[Elhanan]

jds1bio wrote...

You guys back-and-forth about the stats and sales are only lending creedence to the truth contained in the topic of this thread. You know, the truth that is the fundamental problems being ignored in favor of citing the (unmeasurable) size of the fanbase, dropping down sales stats which have nothing to do with total hours that DA2 has been played, ignoring most of the other threads on this forum that are talking about pertinent issues related to the DA games (past, present, and future), and topping it off by highlighting (alleged) failures of others during a period of time where you yourself have absolutely nothing better going on.

In part, you are correct: I have little better to do right now. I care little about stats and sales, and prefer to leave it to the number-crunchers. But when I see others posting stuff like 5/10 fans believe this and such, and post slanted info on the forums where I choose to spend my time, I believe giving a greater context may be the right call.

I contend the Fundemental flaw is not in the OP, but in the global market; just guessing, of course.

[Dragoonlordz]

Elhanan wrote...
No; I managed to get the current Amazon.com standings for the game by osmosis....

Yes; all sales are down, including DA2. However, it still is within the top numbers given in a couple different areas. Now while some may wish to judge sales by price indicators, I leave this to others that dewll in the world of lies called stats.

The difference is that you say sales down 'including' DA2, while I say 'especially' down more so with regard to DA2 even after taking into account of global economics by way of the facts that it's still quite a new release, the price has dropped faster than a lot of others and that it's relying right now for this month on a 2 for 1 offer.

[KLUME777]

OP is correct.

[jds1bio]

Elhanan wrote...

I contend the Fundemental flaw is not in the OP, but in the global market; just guessing, of course.

That could very well be.  There are so many things out there competing for our attention that it's become very difficult to know precisely when to release a new product, and at the proper price point.  Movies especially are released on physical media so soon after theatrical release, and within a few weeks their prices also drop significantly.  It doesn't mean that those movies are bad, they could actually be good, but perhaps overpriced given where the purchasers have ranked them in order of priority to purchase.  They have to be marked down in price in order for purchasers to move them up in their order of priority in order to execute the purchase.  Also given that new movies and games appear for sale on a weekly basis, a purchaser can easily end up ranking this week's most desired game out of priority range by next week.

Also, here in North America attendance for baseball games is markedly down overall this year, in some places over 20%.  There are some markets where attendance is up, but there are too many games broadcast on television with views of whole sections of empty seats.  When it can cost $20-$40 just to park your car at the stadium, factor in the increased prices of gas here, and you see people wanting to make the most of their cable bill rather than spend a day or evening outside at the ballpark that can total in the hundreds of dollars for a family outing.  A $60 game that contains 30-60 hours of playtime starts to look like a more economical option.

[Ariella]

KLUME777 wrote...

OP is correct.

The OP has an opinion, which is neither correct or incorrect.

Saintthanksgiving wrote:

What I am saying is, if the addition of voice acting to the player
character meant the complete elimination of an entire portion of the
game (ie. unique origin storylines, deeper roleplaying expierience, a personal investment in the character, REPLAYABILITY)   WHY was the new feature given preference?  I bought Dragon Age 2 becuase I enjoyed Dragon Age 1.  Why would you remove something that made the first game a hit, to add something that I might enjoy?

To answer your question, it's been pointed out by Bioware that many people never got past the Origins. And the origins existed in the DAO because it was supposed to be a snap shot to introduce you to the setting not the be all end all of the series.  The origins played a small part but were not the totality of the game. As for the new features, all I can say is look at the feedback that DAO got when it came out: too generic, too long, too boring, too slow. ...I think if you read over those posts made back when DAO came out in '09, you'll see why Bioware made the choices it did.

As for the other three points you make, those as subjective. I found as much attachment to my Hawke as to my Cousland and have several variant Hawkes running through different acts and classes right now.