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[sonsonthebia07]

Probably the gauntlet...and Xebenkeck I suppose. The arishok duel I've only done as a s&s warrior, and it took FOREVER since he was resistant to my weapon. It wasn't exactly hard but it was my worst favorite fight in the game. I play on nightmare. Those are the only two fights that I do not believe I have ever fought in the actual room and have pulled them back, although it can still get messy doing it on the gauntlet. It really depends on who I have with me.

I do not advise attempting to kill off rage demons on nightmare with fire based weapons with a few physical rune slots. ><

[jbblue05]

ARW has become a joke with lightning reistantce runes HoT and haste

Fighting the two revenants at the same time is impossible unless your mabari draws a 100% aggro on one of them while you take the other one down

Bloom battleaxe maes the high dragon fight a lot easier and shorter

Xebenkeck is a pain in the ass with all those rage demons going only after your squishies.

[mr_afk]

What's HoT?

[Banky77]

HoT = Hex of Torment, I guess.

Xebenkeck it is for me. It's the only fight I need the Dog and a warrior on the team.

Modifié par Banky77, 25 mai 2011 - 04:02 .

[Luke Barrett]

Not that it's necessarily the hardest fight but I always get rage-faced when I'm doing the Secret Rendezvous quest in Docks Night in Act 1. For whatever reason the way I build my characters I dont have trouble with the Brekker fight but this one always gives me issues this early (even though its essentially the same type of fight)

[mr_afk]

@Banky77 - thanks! that makes sense. (also, btw.. hexes last ~4seconds or less on the ARW. not sure how much of a difference it makes unless you're speedrunning it)

@Luke - Haha me too, I always raged at the raiders who joined in - Ended up having 3-4 elites stealthing and capable of one-shotting my companions.

I think the main problem is that it is a lot harder to bottleneck them and typically destealthing abilities and damage CCCs aren't fully developed yet.

After the first few playthroughs I took to hunting down the raiders to extinction before doing the secret rendezvous. haha
Though my elemental warrior didn't come across any problems (it kills them fast enough that stealth-backstabs aren't an issue)


The hardest fight imo would probably be xebenkeck - I never figured out a way to stay in the room with a fully glass cannon party for my spirit-mage playthrough (no cold spells) as the rage demons were impossible to kill and could one-shot almost any party member...Of course if you leave the room it becomes one of the easiest fights..

Modifié par mr_afk, 25 mai 2011 - 04:26 .

[Luke Barrett]

mr_afk wrote...
The hardest fight imo would probably be xebenkeck - I never figured out a way to stay in the room with a fully glass cannon party for my spirit-mage playthrough (no cold spells) as the rage demons were impossible to kill and could one-shot almost any party member...Of course if you leave the room it becomes one of the easiest fights..

Agreed. I'm trying to push an initiative of locking down excessive kiting in boss fights going forward. Basically I want all our important boss fights (especially those side ones) to require you to fully plan your party ahead of time and have 0 chance of cheesing it out by kiting adds 4 rooms away.

Modifié par Luke Barrett, 25 mai 2011 - 07:23 .

[mesmerizedish]

"Planning your party ahead of time" is all well and good, but there needs to be in-game information to support it.

At the risk of sounding like Sylvius the Mad, no encounter should require meta-gaming to defeat, regardless of difficulty. That's bad design.

[BY-TOR STORMDRAGON]

None are difficult, really- it's the major assaults of demons, etc. that amass (or dragonlings/dragons) that prolong the bouts and really test the party over the fights. That High Dragon spews and the littleuns are buggers, it's just TIME consuming. The new weapons/armor DLC with Runes helped my high-level characters a lot...making it really a bit too easy actually.

[Zjarcal]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

"Planning your party ahead of time" is all well and good, but there needs to be in-game information to support it.

At the risk of sounding like Sylvius the Mad, no encounter should require meta-gaming to defeat, regardless of difficulty. That's bad design.

I kind of agree.

On Hard or Nightmare difficulty, the Rock Wraith was pretty much impossible for me until I came back with electricity warding runes equipped, at which point the fight became a trivality. It really sucked because I had to redo the entire Deep Roads just so I could come properly equipped.

I'm okay with ceratin equipment or items making life easier for you, but not to the point that it's all but impossible to win without them.

EDIT: Indeed, planning ahead is good so long as we can plan ahead without necessarily having to repeat long sections. So for instance, if there's a side boss that one can come back later, that's a case where I'm fine with planning ahead (example, the High Dragon). But in the case of the Rock Wraith it was very annoying for me.

SECOND EDIT: On topic, the hardest boss fight for me was... hmm, well, none of the boss fights felt too hard once I knew their trick (i.e., fire resistance for the High Dragon, electricity resistance for the Rock Wraith). The hardest battles for me were actually the ones that involved many assassins at once, like in Hubert's quest from Act 2 with the people stealing from the Bone Pit, or whenever you were facing dozens of demons at a time (of which there were plenty).

For the record, I haven't faced Xebenkeck yet (didn't destroy the tomes).

Modifié par Zjarcal, 25 mai 2011 - 08:22 .

[Master Shiori]

Zjarcal wrote...

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

"Planning your party ahead of time" is all well and good, but there needs to be in-game information to support it.

At the risk of sounding like Sylvius the Mad, no encounter should require meta-gaming to defeat, regardless of difficulty. That's bad design.

I kind of agree.

On Hard or Nightmare difficulty, the Rock Wraith was pretty much impossible for me until I came back with electricity warding runes equipped, at which point the fight became a trivality. It really sucked because I had to redo the entire Deep Roads just so I could come properly equipped.

I'm okay with ceratin equipment or items making life easier for you, but not to the point that it's all but impossible to win without them.

EDIT: Indeed, planning ahead is good so long as we can plan ahead without necessarily having to repeat long sections. So for instance, if there's a side boss that one can come back later, that's a case where I'm fine with planning ahead (example, the High Dragon). But in the case of the Rock Wraith it was very annoying for me.

Agreed.

And Xebenkeck was by far the hardest fight for me, even on lower difficulties. 

 

[Luke Barrett]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

"Planning your party ahead of time" is all well and good, but there needs to be in-game information to support it.

At the risk of sounding like Sylvius the Mad, no encounter should require meta-gaming to defeat, regardless of difficulty. That's bad design.

I actually disagree quite a bit. The in-game information is provided when you find the boss and get facerolled by it; you adapt and try again with a well thought out strategy based on what you learned. Aside from that you've got the tell-tale signs such as fire resist for dragons, disables for mages, spirit resist whenever dealing with ANY type of demons/blood mages.

Now, crit path bosses obviously shouldn't require you to completely reinvent the wheel but those optional bosses, such as Xeben or the Arwegian bosses are not mandatory and thus can have the difficulty heavily increased. They are also usually in a side area which allows you to easily go back and reset your party (unlike core bosses which are dug way deeper in to a dungeon or other such areas usually.

I would like to stress that this is specific to Nightmare play, lower difficulties than this are a separate issue (and obviously everything is balanced for Normal)

[Luke Barrett]

Also, every encounter in the game is doable without resists on Nightmare - I just wouldn't recommend trying unless you're a masochist like me

Modifié par Luke Barrett, 25 mai 2011 - 08:34 .

[Zjarcal]

Luke Barrett wrote...
Now, crit path bosses obviously shouldn't require you to completely reinvent the wheel but those optional bosses, such as Xeben or the Arwegian bosses are not mandatory and thus can have the difficulty heavily increased. They are also usually in a side area which allows you to easily go back and reset your party (unlike core bosses which are dug way deeper in to a dungeon or other such areas usually.

Yep, and that's why I made an edit to my post saying that for side bosses, I am perfectly fine with the "planning ahead" mentality, or for any fight that is part of a side quest.

So long as it's not applied to mandatory bosses (especially those that require to do a lot before reaching them), then it's all good in my view.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 25 mai 2011 - 08:37 .

[mesmerizedish]

I thought he had meant taking specific companions along.

If all he meant was picking good talents, then I'm okay with that.

But these fights that require certain resistances, or certain damage types... I'm okay with that as well. But there needs to be some in-character information from which I can deduce how I need to plan ahead. If my options are doing the fight and re-loading after I've seen it, reading a guide or forum post, and getting lucky and having the right damage type/resistance by chance, that's terrible design.

Varric should be telling me stories about lightning monsters in the deep roads if the deep roads boss requires me to have lightning immunity to defeat, as an example.

[Zjarcal]

Luke Barrett wrote...

Also, every encounter in the game is doable without resists on Nightmare - I just wouldn't recommend trying unless you're a masochist like me

Yeah... I spent about 1 hour on the Rock Wraith without resistances and I had it on the brink of death. But this was after my whole party had been wiped out and I was the only left... and then I got stuck in a wall and died. <_<

Modifié par Zjarcal, 25 mai 2011 - 08:37 .

[sonsonthebia07]

Luke Barrett wrote...

mr_afk wrote...
The hardest fight imo would probably be xebenkeck - I never figured out a way to stay in the room with a fully glass cannon party for my spirit-mage playthrough (no cold spells) as the rage demons were impossible to kill and could one-shot almost any party member...Of course if you leave the room it becomes one of the easiest fights..

Agreed. I'm trying to push an initiative of locking down excessive kiting in boss fights going forward. Basically I want all our important boss fights (especially those side ones) to require you to fully plan your party ahead of time and have 0 chance of cheesing it out by kiting adds 4 rooms away.

You have no idea how much I abused cheesing and kiting in my first run through on nightmare.

[Mr.House]

Xebenkeck felt like the developer who did the fight wanted to troll the player so they made a very powerful demon with ALOT of waves. >.>

[KnightofPhoenix]

I beat the Rock Wraith on hard on my very first playthrough (no reload), with no metagaming, no resistance, very easily. It was just tedious, long and too mechanical. You can avoid the lightning if you put yourself and squaddies right next to those blue barriers.

[Sylvius the Mad]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

"Planning your party ahead of time" is all well and good, but there needs to be in-game information to support it.

At the risk of sounding like Sylvius the Mad, no encounter should require meta-gaming to defeat, regardless of difficulty. That's bad design.

I generally expect Nightmare to break that rule, though, so I wouldn't really complain.

And that's why I objected so strongly to FF being limited to Nightmare.  You're right that I don't ever want to need metagame information to defeat an opponent (especially in these newer games that have completely abandoned strategic planning in favour of tactical planning), but that means never playing Nightmare (which is fine by me - I don't really see why difficulty is desirable).  And yet, I also think the game mechanics don't make any sense with FF.

Anyway, back on topic, I don't see a problem with the setting that 's primarily designed to be a challenge for the player - which is essentially already a metagame concern - requiring metagaming on the part of that player.

[thendcomes]

ARW doesn't require lightning resist at all, and neither does High Dragon unless you're playing solo. Resistance stacking makes both encounters trivial. The one thing against ARW is that it's very unfriendly to melee, but I agree with Luke. You see what works and what doesn't, adjust your strategy, and come back.

[ipgd]

I didn't even realize resistance runes did anything significant until I'd already gone through the game twice on nightmare :<