32 réponses à ce sujet

[Babi]

 When they do the rite of annulment, do they kill the kids in the circle too?

I know this might seem silly, but I figured there be more emphasis on how killing innocent children is wrong if this is indeed the case.

[Deztyn]

Children can be abominations too.

See: Connor Guerrin

Modifié par Deztyn, 25 avril 2011 - 06:28 .

[Babi]

Duh, but not everyone in the Circle is evil. I figured the purpose of annulment was the weed out the "dark influence" or whatever. Children are easy to appease, so wouldn't it be kind of pointless to kill all of them?

[Dio Demon]

Annulment is supposed to be a last resort (unless if Meredith of course) but yeah I guess they would, you never know a child may turn into a pride demon and squish Templars :3

[Deztyn]

The point is to kill them all and let the Maker sort them out. The templars can't tell who is a blood mage or abomination on sight. A child abomination is just as dangerous as an adult. And they're probably more likely to be possessed since they have less training. It's not very nice, but there it is.

[DeathStride]

Babi wrote...

 When they do the rite of annulment, do they kill the kids in the circle too?

I know this might seem silly, but I figured there be more emphasis on how killing innocent children is wrong if this is indeed the case.

Dunno if you've played Origins, but your answer lies in the Circle Tower questline from that game. You go in and Wynne is protecting some mages and children and says she'll fight you if you side with the Templars and propose the Right of Annulment because in addition to the innocent mages in the Tower, even the children would get killed. So yeah, RoA = complete annihilation regardless of age.

[LobselVith8]

Babi wrote...

When they do the rite of annulment, do they kill the kids in the circle too?

Of course. Every man, woman, and child who is a Circle mage is condemned to death.

Babi wrote...

I know this might seem silly, but I figured there be more emphasis on how killing innocent children is wrong if this is indeed the case.

This is addressed time and again in debates about the Right of Annulment, especially since Meredith invoked the Right of Annulment against the Circle of Kirkwall because of the actions of an apostate, but it doesn't sway some people at all.

[Plaintiff]

Yes, children are killed in the Right of Annulment.

[AlexXIV]

Oh no! Not the children!

[tausra]

The Rite cleanses a broken circle, killing every Mage to protect the average person. In the case of a circle like Kirkwall, it is a much needed tool.

[Rifneno]

tausra wrote...

The Rite cleanses a broken circle, killing every Mage to protect the average person. In the case of a circle like Kirkwall, it is a much needed tool.

In other words, yes.  The RoA involves armed soldiers butchering children begging for mercy.

[Snowship]

Crazy Eyed One wrote...

Annulment is supposed to be a last resort (unless if Meredith of course) but yeah I guess they would, you never know a child may turn into a pride demon and squish Templars :3

Bolded statement leaves me with a variation of the Bear Grylls Meme...
Suns Going Down
Better Annul the Circle

[tausra]

Rifneno wrote...

tausra wrote...

The Rite cleanses a broken circle, killing every Mage to protect the average person. In the case of a circle like Kirkwall, it is a much needed tool.

In other words, yes.  The RoA involves armed soldiers butchering children begging for mercy.

Children who could be demons. Demons capable to fling city destroying fireballs, wrap you in sheets of ice, or crush you with their mind.

[Babi]

Then, all that aside... aren't "average" people of inferior genes anyway? I figure that average joe is the one who needs to be weeded out to progress society. If we're sticking to practicality, anyway.
Throughout the game you hear "mages are too powerful" etc, etc. but if everyone where a mage, what would be the deal then?
In a world where magic, spirits, and mystical creatures exist, it would make most sense for people with more ability, good or bad, to co-exist.

[tausra]

Tevinter is that way--->

[Haristo]

yep... they purge the temple, everything dies : Childrens, adults and Grannies... this is why this is supposed to be an ''Emergency last resort''. However Meredith is a douche so she don't care of that...

[Rifneno]

tausra wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

tausra wrote...

The Rite cleanses a broken circle, killing every Mage to protect the average person. In the case of a circle like Kirkwall, it is a much needed tool.

In other words, yes.  The RoA involves armed soldiers butchering children begging for mercy.

Children who could be demons. Demons capable to fling city destroying fireballs, wrap you in sheets of ice, or crush you with their mind.

Huh.  I guess we agree on something after all.  The apparent oddly high capability for templars to become to be mass murderers and sexual predators is why, given the chance, I'd invoke a Right of Annulment on the templars.

[Babi]

tausra wrote...

Tevinter is that way--->

Kind of, but there is never an emphasis on mages procreating faster and/or with purpose.

In this scenario it's like how people with lower IQs generally spawn more quickly than people with higher IQs. 

[TJPags]

Oh yay, another one of these threads.

Answer to question - yes, the children are killed too.

It is a LAST resort - not the first thing you jump to do the first time a mage has a hissy fit.

[tausra]

Where do you conjure the idea of sexual predation?

[Rifneno]

tausra wrote...

Where do you conjure the idea of sexual predation?

  Seriously?

[Plaintiff]

tausra wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

tausra wrote...

The Rite cleanses a broken circle, killing every Mage to protect the average person. In the case of a circle like Kirkwall, it is a much needed tool.

In other words, yes.  The RoA involves armed soldiers butchering children begging for mercy.

Children who could be demons. Demons capable to fling city destroying fireballs, wrap you in sheets of ice, or crush you with their mind.

You know, people keep saying that, but we never actually see anything like the scale of destruction demons and/or mages are supposedly capable of. Uldred needed a whole team of bloodmages to take over the Ferelden Circle and had to let in a lot of demons. Anders had to go pretty far out of his way to make a bomb that would blow up even one decent-sized building. Connor, even as an abomination could only raise undead and had limited mind-control abilities.

Cullen has a big BAWWWW about how mages can "set a city aflame in a fit of pique" but seems to neglect the fact that said fit of pique would apparently have to last several weeks as the mage ran around setting each house on fire individually.

Seems to me the threat they pose is grossly misrepresented.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 26 avril 2011 - 01:38 .

[HogarthHughes 3]

If abominations were so gosh darn dangerous, how has Tevinter survived so long? How did they once have an empire across Thedas without keeping a tight leash on all their mages? It seems to me that situations similar to Connor or Merediths sister are extremely rare. There will always be apostates in a society that isn't extremely restrictive like the Qun. There will always be that danger of the big evil abomination that massacres many innocents. Mages are locked up because people fear something like the Imperium happening again.

Just one other thing I noticed, both Connor and Merediths sister were kept sheltered from the circle without proper training for fear of losing them. There has to be a better solution than either binding them to Templar jurisdiction for life or them becoming magisters.

Modifié par HogarthHughes 3, 26 avril 2011 - 01:40 .

[Plaintiff]

tausra wrote...

Where do you conjure the idea of sexual predation?

"Once you're tranquil, you'll do anything I ask."

Beatings and rapes can occur in any environment. The templars are taught to hate mages, to believe that they are less than human, and then they are given ultimate power of life and death over them. The potential for abuse is so overwhelmingly obvious that it would be reasonable to expect rape to occur, even without the several hints made in-game.

[Rifneno]

Plaintiff wrote...

tausra wrote...

Where do you conjure the idea of sexual predation?

"Once you're tranquil, you'll do anything I ask."

Beatings and rapes can occur in any environment. The templars are taught to hate mages, to believe that they are less than human, and then they are given ultimate power of life and death over them. The potential for abuse is so overwhelmingly obvious that it would be reasonable to expect rape to occur, even without the several hints made in-game.

That line by Ser Alrik is even more disturbing when you consider that Bethany, who is barely 20ish herself, refers to Ella as a kid.  So how old is this girl he's about to soul-steal and make his sex slave?

There's also Ser Karras, the templar that most people end up fighting at the end of Act of Mercy in Act I.  If left to live, Alain has extra dialogue in Act II saying something along the lines of "Karras... comes to my room at night."  Even if you kill Karras, in Act III Alain says with a bit of distant look that he joined the rebellion because of what the templars "make him do for them."  So apparently the poor guy has *multiple* rapists.  And he's male!  Imagine what it's like for the women!  Speaking of which, when FemHawke's group engages Karras's platoon he orders "kill the men, save the pretty one for questioning."  It didn't raise any eyebrows with me the first time I heard it, but after hearing Alain say the guy's a rapist...  yeah, I don't think "questioning" is why he wants FemHawke in chains.