He didn't give Michael Lang orders to assassinate the two Earth presidents, and the difference isn't slight. He could have inferred it just as much as he shut down the project entirely.Moiaussi wrote...
And your evidence that is anything other than wishful thinking on your part is what, exactly? If TIM is Cerberus and Cerberus is Humanity, where does that leave the rest of us who normally consider us humanity? And he didn't just assassinate a Terra Firma guy, he assassinated two Earth presidents just to make it easier to get some legislation through. Assassinating those who vote against your policies is not democracy.
This whole thread is about wishful thinking moi, 'get with the program.' My response is predicated by the fact that he's a moderate in terms of international politics, he could have done much 'worse' than just the Terra Firma party, which makes me think he isn't out for blood.
It's not wishful thinking, it's based on the whole idea of diplomacy and 'mutual advantage' to which diplomacy represents, no matter how much you 'wish' otherwise. The entire reason why the volus went to the Turian's in the first place is because they 'don't have the bodies for it' (slight paraphrasing), which seems to me that they're very much 'locked in contract.'Moi wrote...
Pardon? More rampant wishful thinking on your part? If the Volus ever did get their own fleet, they could offer financial guidance to the Council as their specialty, just as the Turians specialize in military, Asari in diplomacy, and Salarians in espionage. The Turians would still benefit economicly. The Volus just haven't been willing to put their own lives on the line in ships so far.
The Volus indeed does the things you mentioned, remember they're responsible for the standardised galactic economy, but it's only the Turian's that supposedly give them support (and only apparently when it's convenient for the Turian's to do so, you can't tell me that the entire Turian Hierarchy fleet was involved with the Taetrus campaign because well, that's just plain stupid moi). This means to me at least that if the Volus wants to change it would be exceptionally difficult to do so (and I doubt it would be plain sailing) because of numerous factors; most notably the fact that the Turian's economic might is largely dependent upon the Volus.
So, I don't see it as 'rampant wishful thinking' but rather extrapolation from what I see as part of the galactic community and my knowledge that diplomacy isn't really cut and dried. Let me put it this way; do you really think that politicians are the ones who plan out diplomatic trade etc? Because you're woefully naive if you do, that stuff is handled by trained negotiators.
What does the Terminus systems have to do with Eden Prime really? I know what was said at the start of ME1, but Eden Prime falls officially within the domain of Citadel space. Nihilus says however that it's the discovery of the Prothean beacon that might tempt the Terminus Systems from making a grab for it.Moi wrote...
The Terminus systems get away with a lot simply by playing hardball with the Council. Udina on the other hand has made a career out of licking their boots. And as for the Volus, they would obviously build the fleets first with a clean transition of power. They might even start by buying up surplus Turian vessels and refitting the controls to be more volus-friendly. Of course the council wouldn't step in, but that doesn't mean the Volus would be idiots about it either.
As to Terra Nova, I can't remember if it was ever mentioned if it was in or near the Terminus Systems, but remember that slavers make frequent attacks outside batarian space (for what should hopefully be painfully obvious reasons).
I really hope you aren't undergoing studies to become a lawyer moiMoi wrote...
v2 wasn't genocide either though, and Krogan society is indeed stabilizing under Wrex (or his stand-in)'s guidance. There was no intent at all to eliminate the race, merely to stabilize population growth.
Let me try and illustrate an example; if the genophage was deployed against us, would you be so quick to say it isn't genocide? Or is genocide to you only limited to the (mass) killing of the current standing population?
Lets say there is usually a birth rate of 10 million each well breeding cycle (however long that may be), considering the fact that the genophage reduces the rate to 1:1000, then there is only about 10,000 new infants that survives birth. That's a pretty staggering fact imo. And you say it's okay because it's 'stabilizing to pre-industrial levels'? Well unfortunately, the Krogan aren't in their 'pre-industrial levels' anymore, so the point is kinda, well, utter bs. It's kinda amazing to me that I consider war to be actually more 'ethical' in comparison. Genophage v1 fair enough considering the mark of the times, but v2 was putting the boot in when they're down.
But look at the facts moi. Look at the circumstance and look at the result.Moi wrote...
It isn't genocide because there is neither intent to eliminate the race, nor is that effect in place.
Forgive me moi but... you're an idiot. Tell me you aren't actually using this flimsy 'excuse'. Genocide is the killing of members, if a child is unable to be conceived but shows an eventual inverse to the standard population levels (adults dying for whatever reason), then you're obviously making 'less' people appear, which is well... kinda 'genocide by proxy'. Pre-industrial levels is a buzzword used by Mordin to convince himself, mainly because no one (not even the Krogan) are living in pre-industrial levels anymore. Krogan are still an 'uplifted species.'Moi wrote...
If that distinction isn't important, everyone who ever kills anyone regardless of circumstances is committing genocide.
This does not compute. How are the Krogan 'recovering and evolving' when the Genophage is as still prevalent (well, technically more so considering Mordin made it immune to the effects of evolution) now as when it was when Mordin, Maelon and the crew of Kirrahe deployed it? The Krogan are in as much of the same place now as before really. Even Wrex says he wont change his people from 'the way they are' even if he does make sweeping changes in their breeding program (which in all honesty just makes it sound like he's getting rid of insular breeding practices by enforcing increased genetic diversity, because the females will be 'shared around.' This doesn't mean that somehow they're going to circumvent the 1:1000 magic number).Moi wrote...
And Krogan society is recovering and evolving. Pre-genophage, the Krogan killed themselves and anyone/anything else they could find as a challenge, as a birth control method. That sure sounds like a lot more suffering than this to me.
Moi, you keep on ignoring the obvious. The krogan no longer live in pre-industrial levels or society. Rapid population growth is a problem, but doesn't require 'genocide by proxy' to fix, namely because you rob the Krogan of tackling the problem themselves. It doesn't 'stabilize' the population because the Krogan keep on moving away from Tuchanka and their worlds to experience mercenary work because they've collectively thrown up their hands in despair. You ignore that the Volus' own words (I think in ME1, Barla Von?) say that they don't have the bodies for essentially rough and tumble work (which sorta means that even if they wanted to move from the Turian's they'd be resistances -- and I think this is even touched upon in ME2 in a renegade playthrough, the Volus wants to move from the Turian's to the Alliance).Moi wrote...
You keep ignoring context. You ignore the Krogan situation pre-genophage and the effects of unrestrained rapid population growth. You ignore the fact that the genophage stabilizes populations. You assume the Volus, who are portrayed as managerial geniuses could not handle a simply implementation and transition to their own fleets. Experimenting on creepers and husks wasn't evil in its own right, but the experiments on Toombs as part of a plan to create 'geneticly enhanced super soldiers' implies taking the data from such studies and crossing it with human DNA.
I'm not going to really touch upon your 'implication' point, because that's incredibly nebulous by definition, which is something you've taken to me above. Supersoldier program was 'confirmed' by Kahoku (and what would he really know?) but why is a supersoldier program necessarily bad in and of itself? That sort of mentality honestly makes me think of people who are resistant to the idea of AI research in the real world because they fear that AI's will completely go SkyNet on us (without fail). And the Toombs thing is still pretty lose in its facts.
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