1342 réponses à ce sujet

[AdmiralCheez]

Datas_12 wrote...

She looks like a sl*t

That's what happens when you talk to Jacob as a FemShep, unfortunately.

Usually Rowena is more serious business.

[AdmiralCheez]

Mesina2 wrote...

Even pony tail one?

Especially the pony tail one.

It's more of the way the modeled the hair than anything else.  Too "chunky."  Like a plastic wig, as someone called it.

Meh, enough hair-related shenanigans.

[KnightofPhoenix]

I see it as Cerberus is basically doing the same thing except that there is no cold war. The other species are not our enemies, at the worst they are a bit cold towards us. Their actions are going to have the same negative effect and there really is no reason to do it.

I strongly contest this. You don't need ideological competition to have a cold war.

Humanity, after 3 decades after first contact, is either dominating the council or is a part of it. That alone engendered a great amount of fear amongst the others. In the former situation, it's obviously a pseudo-cold war, with an arms race between the Turians and the Alliance, with Turians breaking the Farixen pact and the Asari giving away their share of forces to the Hierarchy. Furthermore, Humanity, according to the news, is gathering allies from the "lesser races", including Volus who are under Turian protectrion which of course angered them. The need for Cerberus in such a context is obvious.

But even in the context of humanity being in a paragon council, it's still a pseudo-cold war. Here's why. The Council before functionned like a "trinity". Salarians, Asari and Turians are almost perfectly complimentary.  Salarians provide the reconaissance, intelligence and scientific research. Asari provide the culture, diplomacy and biotics. Turians are the military arm. By introducing humanity, you're destabilizing that delicate balance. Humanity's main characteristic is the military, but it's also good with the rest. That means that the Turians and Alliance will have overlapping niches  or speciality. That is bound to cause an arms race to show which of the two is the better peace keeper. Also, it will axiomatically push the Turians and Alliance to try to get the other two to their side, and I will not be surprised to see the Salarians and Asari manipulating both to their advantage.

Let me give you an example of an already present arms race, even with a paragon human council:

Codex entry for Thanix Cannon:
"Following the Battle of the Citadel, human and turian volunteers
conducted a massive three-month survey effort to clear the station's
orbit of debris. Secretly, the Turian Office of Technological
Reconnaissance "volunteers" were technology recovery specialists
salvaging the main weapon of the geth flagship Sovereign, and large
amounts of its valuable element zero core."

In a cold war, you do not need explicit enemies. The USSR was not the enemy of the USA. They were rather rivals, but they both conducted trade, cooperated...etc. 

Cerberus, with a realist mindset, knows how vulnerable humanity is. That basing a foreign policy, nay the survival of an entire species, on the supposition that the others are harmless, is naive. But it does not seek to provoke a direct confrontation. Indeed, the whole point of assassinating a pope was to have a rapprochement with Salarians. It promoted the Normandy project and technological collaboration with the Turians.  So Cerberus also knows the value of allies.

As to before Humanity got in the council. Humanity was also vulnerable then. Their entire fate rested on the Salarians and Asari telling the Turians to stop. No one feels comfortable being at the complete mercy of others. And it was still feared and to an extent hated then, almost everyone mentions it.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 25 avril 2011 - 03:06 .

[didymos1120]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
  Like a plastic wig, as someone called it.

Yeah, you know what?  In terms of implementation, the hair really is a wig.  You can occasionally catch the engine glitching someone's hair so it's not properly aligned.  You'll see they have "stubble" of the same color underneath.

[Leonia]

Chewin3 wrote...



This thread is full of it

Best post ever.

[KnightofPhoenix]

michaelrsa wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
I strongly contest this. You don't need ideological competition to have a cold war.

You have a lot of good points that I'll concede to but one thing is true. The turians and humans are nowhere near as close to going to war with one another as the U.S. and the U.S.S.R were. I'd say that the Alliance and the Hierarchy get on better than Russia and the U.S. do today. At least for the Paragon example.

The USA and USSR only got really close in the Cuban Missile Crisis. After that, the period was called "Detente", where the relationsip was relaxed.

Furthermore, we have to take the long term into account. The Alliance is getting stronger and stronger (and need more and more colonies). That will axiomatically give more reasons to the Turians to be hostile (I don't blame them, I know I would). I'd say that a confrontation is almost inevitable, or at the very least very likely. You don't have to wait for it start, to empower Humanity. Better start as early as possible in anticipation of the inevitable / very likely.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 25 avril 2011 - 03:24 .

[Recon Member]

leonia42 wrote...

Chewin3 wrote...



This thread is full of it

Best post ever.

Aah, I just love the irony in this pic

[Lapis Lazuli]

GodWood wrote...

The Cerberus haters far out number the Cerberus sympathizers.

I'm not a Cerberus hater or a Cerberus sympathizer. I'm a "facts" sympathizer. The facts are that TIM will rot in jail or be executed if the authorities ever catch up to him.

[Lvl20DM]

Regardless of your decisions in ME1, the Alliance and the Heirarchy are performing joint operations training and swapping tech. The Alliance and Turians are also building dreadnoughts to use against someone else (Batarians? Reapers?).

Cerberus seems less evil in ME2 than anywhere else. I think some of this is a show for Shep - TIM knows that Shep needs to be made somewhat comfortable or he'll abandon the alliance with Cerberus. In ME2, most of the worst stuff is done by "rogue" agents - but Cerberus always benefits from those experiments. I think TIM wants the individual cells to go to extremes, but his distance from them gives him deniability when they torture kids or murder Admirals.

[KnightofPhoenix]

michaelrsa wrote...
Do the turians really need to worry about humans taking potential colonies from them? The turians are dextro-amino, they would want to colonize worlds with dextro-amino acid life, like Invictus, which humans can't really colonize effectively.

Besides, the galaxy still has room for growth, there are still plenty of undiscovered worlds out there.

Well barring competition for ressources, it's also a question of prestige and political / military power. If Humanity expands as to become larger than the Hierarchy, can extract a greater amount of ressources, and its population is growing as to surpass that of the Turians (meaning more in the military), naturally that would cause the Hierarchy to be on edge, or even more than they already are. 

It doesn't have to blow into all out war, though that's always a possibility. But it will inevitably create tensions as the competition escallates to rivalry. Add to that the political problems and delicacies of Humanity in the council or dominating it. For all we know, the Turians can decide to block human expansion, or restrict it to unsecure areas and refuse to provide any military assistance...oh wait, they actually did it before.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Lvl20DM wrote...

Regardless of your decisions in ME1, the Alliance and the Heirarchy are performing joint operations training and swapping tech. The Alliance and Turians are also building dreadnoughts to use against someone else (Batarians? Reapers?).

But the Turians are secretly developping far more dangerous tech at the same time. Those gestures are just that. Gestures with little use except symbolic. 

And they can always claim to be having a military build up for fighting others, but they will still be on edge. The USA didn't say that the Missile defense shield in Eastern Europe was against Russia, they said it was Iran. They may even be sincere (highly unlikely). That didn't stop Russia ffrom being incredibly pissed off and on edge.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 25 avril 2011 - 03:40 .

[Clonedzero]

of course cerberus is evil. thats part of what makes them so interesting.

also all we hear about is when cerberus screws up but the same can be said about the alliance. you clean up after the alliance ALOT.

personally i loved working for such a shady and "evil" group in ME2. it was an interesting dynamic where you're trying to be a good guy and hero and everyone reacts to you like you're a crazy school bomber or something.

[M-Sinistrari]

ExtremeOne wrote...

If you really think Cerberus is evil I suggest you read about the Germans from WW 2 . They are the enbodiment of what pure evil was .  Bioware made one huge problem with Cerberus and this is true they had no real idea on how to fit them into the franchise . They were part of the alliance in ME 1 and in 2 they are out to destroy the reapers and collectors . But in 3 its a big fat retcon on them. so either Bioware listened to the anti Cerberus fans or the paragons . but it makes no sense.  Its just stupid .  

I asked you in another thread what your opinion was about the Alliance and Cerberus in ME1, before ME2 was even a mention to exist and you never replied.  Ignoring my question leaves me with the thought that you don't want to answer it since it'll contradict your current stance, or that you lied as to having played ME1.  Despite all your comments about ME2 players getting shafted in some way and interpreting what's in game to suit you, it doesn't negate that Cerberus is essentially what could've happened had Unit 731 decided to separate from the Japanese army and strike out on it's own.

As much as I really did want to understand where you're coming from with your point of view, I'm coming to the conclusion that this defend Cerberus/insult the Alliance tangent of yours is just trolling for the entertainment.  And at this point, the troll's quite stale.

[didymos1120]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

I asked you in another thread what your opinion was about the Alliance and Cerberus in ME1, before ME2 was even a mention to exist and you never replied. 

Extreme never played ME1 until well after ME2 came out.

[M-Sinistrari]

didymos1120 wrote...

Extreme never played ME1 until well after ME2 came out.

Then I guess someone completely skipped the Cerberus quest chain since it'd've gone against thier insistance that Cerberus is 'the bestest evar!1!'.

[CroGamer002]

Thekill_3 wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

Chewin3 wrote...



This thread is full of it

Best post ever.

Aah, I just love the irony in this pic

THAT is the best post ever.

[yummysoap]

People assume that anti-Cerberus means pro-Alliance.

Well **** that. I'm anti-cerberus and anti-alliance. They're both just as retarded as each other. Here's hoping Shepard is his own agent in ME3.

[KnightofPhoenix]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Extreme never played ME1 until well after ME2 came out.

Then I guess someone completely skipped the Cerberus quest chain since it'd've gone against thier insistance that Cerberus is 'the bestest evar!1!'.

Does it?
I personally don't say that Cerberus is "the bestest evar!1!" and I find Extreme's views....eh extreme to say the least.
But what was in ME1, if anything, made me more interested in knowing about the group and what they are doing. ME2 didn't dissapoint.

I understand that being difficult, though not impossible, with sole survivor.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 25 avril 2011 - 04:03 .

[M-Sinistrari]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Does it?
I personally don't say that Cerberus is "the bestest evar!1!" and I find Extreme's views....eh extreme to say the least.
But what was in ME1, if anything, made more interested in knowing about the group and what they are doing. ME2 didn't dissapoint.

I understand that being difficult, though not impossible, with sole survivor.

From your posting, it does make it a valid point.  I too was curious about the group since they came across as feeling thier actions were justified.  Pretty much in the same manner I get curious as to how a psychopath or sociopath's mind works because it's so different.  However just because I'm curious doesn't mean I'm defending them or going to pick up the rah-rah banner.

Really, even the Alliance has it's bs as well but not on the same level or scale as Cerberus.

[KnightofPhoenix]

michaelrsa wrote...

I don't like Cerberus but at the same time I still believe humanity needs an organization dedicated to it's interests.

The salarians have the STG and the turians and asari damn well have their own organization.

My issue with Cerberus is that they take his too far. If I could, I'd replace Cerberus with something along the lines of the STG for humans.

The main problem with that is that, unlike say the Turians, Humanity is not under one political organization. There are humans who are outside the Alliance.

Like Dean very nicely articulated in his AU Mass Effect 2, it's a question of Human interests vs National or state interests. Cerberus is focused on the former. The Alliance is arguably more concerned with the latter. The risk is, and we see this in ME2 when they virtually ignored human colonies outside their jurisdiction, is that the Alliance would use this secretive organization not for the good of humanity perse, but for its own state interests.  In that sense, Cerberus is kind of more idealistic, or committed to the idea of human advancement and not just the Alliance. Add to that, that the Alliance is an alliance of business interests as well. So the fear is that this shadow organization ends up representing the interest of corporations and politicians.

Of course both have their pros and cons. And I can certianly understand the desire to have a Cerberus that is accountable to a government.  Ideally, Cerberus should be accountable, but ideally the Alliance should also be different. And humans outside the Alliance should be brought closer or be annexed completely. Maybe a mix of both. 

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 25 avril 2011 - 04:10 .

[Merchant2006]

Oh my good god, what the hell is going on here.

I find it hilarious that some people are like BRO U NO NOTHIN CUZ UR SIDIN WITH THEM ALIENS ITS ALL ABOU HOW CERBUS IS EVIL BUYT U SUK CUZ CEBRUHSS IS NOT EVIL HUMANITY FOREVBER!

Get real people. Some of you keep on justifying Cerberus' actions but I think that falls within the category of **** no one cares about. Why all the hate for people who dislike Cerberus? OP is just stating that Cerberus is indeed evil.

But clearly a group that tortures and experiments on the mentally challenged is DOING IT FOR TEH BEST OF TEHE HUMMANS! *Raises fist into the air* because the way forward for humanity in the future is ripping apart the disabled and using them as human expriments! 

Feels good man.

Modifié par Merchant2006, 25 avril 2011 - 04:11 .