1342 réponses à ce sujet

[General User]

dp

Modifié par General User, 06 mai 2011 - 08:54 .

[Seboist]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

After TIM's speech about their struggle against the Reapers, I doubt they'd be working with them willingly.

I keep tellin' people - Jack is an unwitting sleeper agent for them there Reapers. 

Harbinger's little brother Barbinger is controlling TIM and scheming for a coup in reaper leadership.

[008Zulu]

Nyoka wrote...
All conversations with TIM at the end of ME2 hinted a break of relations between Shepard and Cerberus, but who will attack first and why? TIM has no reason to attack Shepard, after all he resurrected her. Maybe Cerberus has something crucial to defeat the reapers, but they won't cooperate with the Council and the Alliance, so Shepard is sent to deal with the situation...with violent results.

TIM sees Shepard (both Renegade and Paragon) turning his back on him as a betrayal (Paragon by blowing up the base, Renegade by saying "Stay out of my way."). Cerberus has a fairly simple method of dealing with traitors. TIM is a very prideful man, either case will be seen as a personal attack against him.

[008Zulu]

ExtremeOne wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

TIM's character was interesting? Wow. I must've watched too many Bond movies or something, because I thought he was tame as hell.

All I can say is: Acta non verba.

   

to each his own on that . at least story of the Mass Effect games fiound its place in sci fi and its 3rd rate b level sh*t compared to Star Wars and Star Trek 

Dude, no one has a gun to your head forcing you to play. If you don't like it, just walk away from it.

[008Zulu]

Dave666 wrote...

Hackett:  Shepard, we've discovered the location of The Incompetent Man, we need you to sneak in and retrieve some vital intel.  Remember Shepard, this is a covert operation.

Queue the traditional explosions and mass destruction whenever Shepard is involved in 'covert operations'.

For Shepard, covert operation falls under "Destroy anythig that has colour on it"

If they tell him Covert and he goes and destroys everything in his field of vision, maybe they should tell him just to go nuts and maybe he will do the mission covertly.

[Dave666]

008Zulu wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

TIM's character was interesting? Wow. I must've watched too many Bond movies or something, because I thought he was tame as hell.

All I can say is: Acta non verba.

   

to each his own on that . at least story of the Mass Effect games fiound its place in sci fi and its 3rd rate b level sh*t compared to Star Wars and Star Trek 

Dude, no one has a gun to your head forcing you to play. If you don't like it, just walk away from it.

But walking away is not xtreeeeem enough...

[008Zulu]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Once again, here is TIM's rationale if you are a Renegade.

"Shepard had a tone in his voice the last time we spoke so I'm going to kill him."

We need more writers of your caliber on the team, 008Zulu.

I choose to take that as a compliment.

None of you may like it, but TIM and Cerberus are the bad guys. Your only deluding yourself if you think otherwise. There is no definative proof that Cerberus has done anything for the betterment of mankind. All they have done is make everything they get involved in, worse.

[DPSSOC]

Nyoka wrote...
All conversations with TIM at the end of ME2 hinted a break of relations between Shepard and Cerberus,

People keep saying this and it's not true.  I know for a fact there is at least one conversation where Shep and TIM end that conversation with a mutual understanding that they're going to keep working together.

I'll play through the Collector Base again so I can get it word for word but the convo ends with:

TIM: It's not that simple, we need each other Shepard
Shep: Yeah, we do. (that's what the dialogue wheel option is can't remember exactly what Shepard said)

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

If TIM is indoctrinated, it will be disappointing because TIM's been Reaper-influenced for the better part of the last several decades without showing any signs, deterioration, or actions of a hidden Reaper agent.

If TIM has freely and genuinely joined the Reapers, it will be disappointing because ME2 only existed because of TIM working to foil Reaper strategies, and siding with them now contradicts all prior categorization and material.


If TIM has joined the Reapers in order to stab them in the back... that may be acceptable depending on the quality of delivery.

Well put Dean.

008Zulu wrote...
I choose to take that as a compliment.

None
of you may like it, but TIM and Cerberus are the bad guys. Your only
deluding yourself if you think otherwise. There is no definative proof
that Cerberus has done anything for the betterment of mankind. All they
have done is make everything they get involved in, worse.

"Facepalm"

Modifié par Lizardviking, 07 mai 2011 - 12:45 .

[Seboist]

DPSSOC wrote...

Nyoka wrote...
All conversations with TIM at the end of ME2 hinted a break of relations between Shepard and Cerberus,

People keep saying this and it's not true.  I know for a fact there is at least one conversation where Shep and TIM end that conversation with a mutual understanding that they're going to keep working together.

I'll play through the Collector Base again so I can get it word for word but the convo ends with:

TIM: It's not that simple, we need each other Shepard
Shep: Yeah, we do. (that's what the dialogue wheel option is can't remember exactly what Shepard said)

Yeah and Shepard had just as much autonomy from TIM in ME2 as he did from the Council in ME1. TIM was just an advisor handling the strategic aspects of the mission and gave Shepard free reign to do a lot of things he himself admits he would have done differently (Legion,Grunt,etc).

This notion that TIM is some egomaniac and can't handle Shepard doing his own decisions is just freaking absurd.

[Bad King]

Saphra Deden wrote...

008Zulu wrote...

None of you may like it, but TIM and Cerberus are the bad guys. Your only deluding yourself if you think otherwise. There is no definative proof that Cerberus has done anything for the betterment of mankind. All they have done is make everything they get involved in, worse.

Like that time they took out the Collectors.

It's true. Without Cerberus funding, information and planning, the Collectors would have killed millions more.

[General User]

008Zulu wrote...
None of you may like it, but TIM and Cerberus are the bad guys. Your only deluding yourself if you think otherwise. There is no definative proof that Cerberus has done anything for the betterment of mankind. All they have done is make everything they get involved in, worse.

Mankind?, that depends on perspective. I’ll leave that one to rest for now, after all everyone has different ideas on the matter. 

But if you mean something like ruthlessly advancing the cause of the human race, Cerberus has certainly done that.

And if you mean somehting closer to helping to bring humanity into common league with alien cultures, well..Cerberus did save the Council from a batarian attack.

Modifié par General User, 07 mai 2011 - 02:16 .

[DPSSOC]

DPSSOC wrote...

Nyoka wrote...
All conversations with TIM at the end of ME2 hinted a break of relations between Shepard and Cerberus,

People keep saying this and it's not true.  I know for a fact there is at least one conversation where Shep and TIM end that conversation with a mutual understanding that they're going to keep working together.

I'll play through the Collector Base again so I can get it word for word but the convo ends with:

TIM: It's not that simple, we need each other Shepard
Shep: Yeah, we do. (that's what the dialogue wheel option is can't remember exactly what Shepard said)

Ok just got it, still paraphrasing slightly.

TIM: This technology will help secure our dominance, against the Reapers and beyond.
Shep: Human dominance, or just Cerberus?
TIM: They're one and the same, my mission has always been to secure humanity's continued strength.  Don't let idealism blind you using this base to it's fullest potential is the best way to achieve ours.
Shep: We have to commit all resources to fighting the Reapers; nothing can interfere with that.  You forget that, and you're out.
TIM: It's not that easy Shepard.  We need each other...
Shep: I'm going to stop the Reapers, but I won't sacrifice the soul of our species to do it.  Remember that.

Now it certainly isn't buddy buddy but it also doesn't hint that they're not still working together.  Shepard's merely stating the terms of their continued cooperation.  As long as TIM focuses on the Reapers and doesn't cross Shepard's line in the sand then they can work together.  Now there are any number of reasons between ME2 and 3 that the relationship could fall apart (TIM could find the terms unreasonable or Shepard could find TIM's compliance lacking) but there's nothing in that conversation to suggest, "I'm not working with you anymore you rotten lying bastard."

[Dean_the_Young]

008Zulu wrote...

None of you may like it, but TIM and Cerberus are the bad guys. Your only deluding yourself if you think otherwise.

Ye gods, someone on the internet claims to know the one true position and that all other views are deluded!

Quite convincing, really. A true master of objectivity.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 07 mai 2011 - 02:11 .

[Someone With Mass]

008Zulu wrote...
Dude, no one has a gun to your head forcing you to play. If you don't like it, just walk away from it.

But that goes against the code of the b!tch. B!tch if possible, when possible.

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...

That line is still so terrible and doesn't gel with the kind of smart person who'd save the base.

Yeah, because the smart person gives the enemy the equivalent of a nuclear bomb or worse, which they're certainly going to use against you later.[sarcasm] I can see the logic in that.[/sarcasm]

[Almostfaceman]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

008Zulu wrote...

None of you may like it, but TIM and Cerberus are the bad guys. Your only deluding yourself if you think otherwise.

Ye gods, someone on the internet claims to know the one true position and that all other views are deluded!

Quite convincing, really. A true master of objectivity.

Pot, meet kettle.

[Dean_the_Young]

Almostfaceman wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

008Zulu wrote...

None of you may like it, but TIM and Cerberus are the bad guys. Your only deluding yourself if you think otherwise.

Ye gods, someone on the internet claims to know the one true position and that all other views are deluded!

Quite convincing, really. A true master of objectivity.

Pot, meet kettle.

Hi pan. I'm afraid I don't recall when I last declared that everyone who disagreed with me on a moral position were deluded.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 07 mai 2011 - 02:21 .

[DPSSOC]

@Saphra
Yeah I think they could have done better just having Shepard say, "Yeah we do." in a tone that suggests "for now".  Which still conveys the idea that their continued cooperation is conditional, as all cooperation should be.  The "I won't sacrifice..." bit only serves to establish that Shepard has a line he/she won't cross but it's meaningless because it gives only the vaguest idea of where that line is.  It's like saying, "I'll work with you but if I don't like where this is going I'm out."  That's usually a given, most people accept that your willing cooperation will only go so far as you feel comfortable with what is being done; saying so is unnecessary.

Someone With Mass wrote...
Yeah, because the smart person gives the enemy the equivalent of a nuclear bomb or worse, which they're certainly going to use against you later.[sarcasm] I can see the logic in that.[/sarcasm]

Yes but Cerberus isn't the enemy at that point, and that conversation line reinforces that this particular Shepard sees no reason for them to be enemies.  Note that Shepard doesn't say, "If you forget that I'm coming after you." which would suggest a play by my rules or I'll put you down mentality.  Instead Shepard says that if TIM can't stop scheming to focus on the Reapers then they can't be allies.  Not being an ally is not the same as being an enemy, unless you're a "with us or against us" kinda Shepard then I guess it does.

[Someone With Mass]

Cerberus isn't your goodie good-shoes buddy just because you say so. It's very clear what they'd do with that base. The galaxy is a better place without it.

Modifié par Someone With Mass, 07 mai 2011 - 02:24 .