164 réponses à ce sujet

[Mr.House]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Loving cats is not a sign of manhood?

You're not a man.

[Lenimph]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Loving cats is not a sign of manhood?

Real men own dogs or wookies.

True fact.

Exceptions are not made for big cats.



 

Modifié par Lenimph, 25 avril 2011 - 06:49 .

[larry3]

nice like it

[Rifneno]

Lenimph wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Loving cats is not a sign of manhood?

Real men own dogs or wookies.

True fact. 

Large parrots > *.

[TheBlackBaron]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...
Do you think it is possible to have a male love interest that is both awesome and yet does not steal the spotlight from the protagonist? Maybe an example in media, either current or historical?

Yes, Garrus.

I don't know, KoP, sometimes my Shep gets pretty tired of everyone always hitting on Garrus instead of him. 

[KnightofPhoenix]

Lenimph wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Loving cats is not a sign of manhood?

Real men own dogs or wookies.

True fact.

You were saying?

[Zjarcal]

Maria Caliban wrote...

2. Lady Hawke has four romance choices. Dude Hawke has four romance choices. It's fine if you swing that way, but stop talking about Fenris and Anders as though they were the only options Lady Hawke has or as though Fenris and Anders romance problems were exclusive to Lady Hawke. A queer Guy Hawke can have the exact same thing happen.  

QFT.

I really hate when people ignore the fact that Lady Hawke can also go for the girls (or vice-versa).

And Aveline looks FINE. <_<

[Maria Caliban]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...
I don't recall Merrill or Isabela discussing personal issue in your first meeting with them. Isabela's focused on an external problem and if you question Merrill, she'll lie and obfuscate.

Isabela revealed she's into crime way too fast for her own good.
And I recall knowing that Merrill is a blood mage and pariah from the very beginning.

I'm not sure that those are issues.

Isabela tells you that she was a smuggler who set a bunch of slaves free. Why wouldn't she tell you this? Freeing slaves is fine in Kirkwall. The city guard isn't going to care that Isabela used to be a smuggler in another country.

The one problem that the authorities in Kirkwall would care about is the one that Isabela keeps from everyone.

Yes, Merrill shows you she's a blood mage and then leaves the Dalish. She doesn't tell you why these things happened or what the shiny mirror thing is or why her clan wants her out or that she's obsessed with reclaiming lost elven lore. Merrill keeps what she can from Hawke, unlike Fenris who decides to inform you of the hatred of mages that rules his life just to make conversation.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 25 avril 2011 - 06:58 .

[Lenimph]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Lenimph wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Loving cats is not a sign of manhood?

Real men own dogs or wookies.

True fact.

*snip*

You were saying?

Hmm now that I think about it Bill Clinton also owned a cat.

Fine some exceptions will be made 

[KnightofPhoenix]

@ Maria Caliban
I concede the point. Some in DA2 are more subtle than others.

I still see them as too abrupt though. Why would Isabela trust a stranger off the bat to watch her back?

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

hoorayforicecream wrote...
Do you think it is possible to have a male love interest that is both awesome and yet does not steal the spotlight from the protagonist? Maybe an example in media, either current or historical?

Yes, Garrus.

Another QFT. 

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Why would Isabela trust a stranger off the bat to watch her back? 

I do agree here. She claims that everyone else is useless so perhaps Hawke has an aura of greatness or something that makes her/him not seem useless, but it was still a bit jarring for her to place so much trust in a total stranger.

Then again, everyone does that in the DA universe. 

Modifié par Zjarcal, 25 avril 2011 - 07:05 .

[hoorayforicecream]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

@ Maria Caliban
I concede the point. Some in DA2 are more subtle than others.

I still see them as too abrupt though. Why would Isabela trust a stranger off the bat to watch her back?

Two reasons:

#1. Hawke had built a reputation in her year of servitude for getting things done.
#2. Hawke is hot.

[Lenimph]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Two reasons:

#1. Hawke had built a reputation in her year of servitude for getting things done.
#2. Hawke is hot.

QFT 

[chart4ever]

You can't be perfect in everything  .

Modifié par chart4ever, 25 avril 2011 - 07:06 .

[Mr.House]

hoorayforicecream wrote...

Two reasons:

#1. Hawke had built a reputation in her year of servitude for getting things done.
#2. Hawke is hot.

[Zjarcal]

hoorayforicecream wrote...
Two reasons:

#1. Hawke had built a reputation in her year of servitude for getting things done.
#2. Hawke is hot.

Emphasis on the hot part. 

[MoonGlow]

I have put my female hawke with Anders with no problem thank you very much in fact i won't put her with any one else why should I when it's going prfectly well between themI have finished all my female hawke play throughs mage warrior and Rouge and I for one enjoy Anders company with my female hawke so no complaints here with that romance in fact I think it's a nioce change from the obvious choices

[Maria Caliban]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

@ Maria Caliban
I concede the point. Some in DA2 are more subtle than others.

I still see them as too abrupt though. Why would Isabela trust a stranger off the bat to watch her back?

In a perfect world, Isabela wouldn't.

At the same time, she had a duel with Hayder that evening. She suspects he'll bring back-up and she doesn't have any friends or acquaintances in the city. Isabela then meets a group of well-armed, skilled looking people in a tavern.

She might as well *ask.* It's not a great idea, but much of Isabela's interactions suggest she'd not big on planning, seeing the big picture, or guessing the consequences. It's very much 'what can I do right now to get me what I want right now?'

That said, I think a single 'I've heard about you' or 'a dwarf named Varric mentioned you' would have been invaluable.

Modifié par Maria Caliban, 25 avril 2011 - 07:29 .

[Oneiropolos]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Yes, Merrill shows you she's a blood mage and then leaves the Dalish. She doesn't tell you why these things happened or what the shiny mirror thing is or why her clan wants her out or that she's obsessed with reclaiming lost elven lore. Merrill keeps what she can from Hawke, unlike Fenris who decides to inform you of the hatred of mages that rules his life just to make conversation.

See, but I actually -didn't- see an issue in Fenris stating it upfront or it being odd of him to. Because to me, it'd be stupid for him not to. He's honest about his biases, and if you're a mage, he goes "I saw you flinging magic around in there." We know he's from Tevinter. We know he's being hunted down as a slave. That's a give away in the very first quest with him. He doesn't even have to say it, those hunting him basically say it so he explains. While people can get sick of Fenris bashing mages all the way through, I PREFERRED his honesty because it doesn't lead to "And now I'm going to go massacre all the mages in the circle." unless you really gave him no attention and even then, it's just because you sided with the mages and by not giving Fenris any attention, you did nothing to help his view change on how dangerous mages are. Fenris had an extremely limited world view. Hawke has the chance to expand it. 

He was a slave, he's been running from the slavers and mages this entire time. The Fog Warriors are the only memory he has of life outside of slavery and he felt so doomed when Denarius came that he felt compelled to kill them all. What's the point of him trying to hide his bias or his past? He barely remembers his past. Anders TRIES to state Fenris is letting 'one occasion' color his life.. but it's the only occasion Fenris really remembers and it was ALL of Fenris's life that he remembered. It's not one occasion. He consistently saw other magisters in Tevinter doing the samething. Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not saying the whole three years past and Fenris refuses to talk about it is RIGHT. I thought that extremely bad pacing and writing. Fenris on the whole is written well, but that little incident was totally WTF. But I don't think Fenris should be condemned for the fact he doesn't trust mages. If someone kept me as a slave, wiped my memories, and I constantly saw them kill people and they are STILL hunting me... based on the fact I had no prior memories, why would I think even for an instant that SOME people of that type are not that bad? No mage in Fenris's existence has ever shown kindness to Fenris until he meets Hawke. If you're not a mage, he sees Bethany. And he later says Bethany is NOT weak (willed), and that weak mages are the problem. He views Anders as one of those weak mages.. and oh look, Anders blows up a chantry.  Yet, I had no problem when I played my mage of actually siding with the mages but being 100% friendship with Fenris and him simply saying if he had a future, he wished it to be my side and his place was with me. And that wasn't even a romance playthrough, Anders was who I romanced in it.  I like the fact that Fenris doesn't actually have a hidden agenda. His issues are right there on the table. Again. He doesn't remember much of his past, he needs your help, his main issues are ones that you will run into consistently if you help him. So he's honest about them. It's not actually oddly-characterized for Fenris to be upfront immediately. He certainly has nothing to lose in being so. 

And not all that was directed at your particular comment. It just provoked a thought process in my brain. ><

Modifié par Oneiropolos, 25 avril 2011 - 07:30 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Maria Caliban wrote...
That said, I think a single 'I've heard about you' or 'a dwarf named Varric mentioned you' would have been invaluable.

Indeed.

[Rifneno]

MoonGlow wrote...

I have put my female hawke with Anders with no problem thank you very much in fact i won't put her with any one else why should I when it's going prfectly well between themI have finished all my female hawke play throughs mage warrior and Rouge and I for one enjoy Anders company with my female hawke so no complaints here with that romance in fact I think it's a nioce change from the obvious choices

While I'm an adamant Anders defender, I can see why people would be... less than pleased with the whole bombing thing.  And the betrayal of trust in keeping it a secret even from someone he's supposed to trust with anything (and whom he expects trust in return for, actually exploiting that fact to get help with the grand cleric).

Oneiropolos wrote...

See, but I actually -didn't- see an issue in Fenris stating it upfront or it being odd of him to. Because to me, it'd be stupid for him not to. He's honest about his biases, and if you're a mage, he goes "I saw you flinging magic around in there." We know he's from Tevinter. We know he's being hunted down as a slave. That's a give away in the very first quest with him. He doesn't even have to say it, those hunting him basically say it so he explains. While people can get sick of Fenris bashing mages all the way through, I PREFERRED his honesty because it doesn't lead to "And now I'm going to go massacre all the mages in the circle." unless you really gave him no attention and even then, it's just because you sided with the mages and by not giving Fenris any attention, you did nothing to help his view change on how dangerous mages are. Fenris had an extremely limited world view. Hawke has the chance to expand it.

That's the thing though.  You don't change his view.  No matter what, he's still a broody bigot, the only thing you can change is that he may have enough loyalty for Hawke to stand with him/her even in something he thinks is wrong.

[ejoslin]

Rifneno wrote...

That's the thing though.  You don't change his view.  No matter what, he's still a broody bigot, the only thing you can change is that he may have enough loyalty for Hawke to stand with him/her even in something he thinks is wrong.

But is Fenris' view wrong?  When just about every mage you meet in the game ends up an abomination or making deals with demons, he has precious little reason to change his world views.  That he's not all, "ooooh, you're a strong mage, Hawke.  I guess I may be wrong about mages," is something I like as it would be weird to me when everything else you see are mages, who should be able to nuke people without resorting to blood magic, instead turn into demons.

Plus you see powerful mages turn templars into abominations as well.  He's right that mages are very powerful, and weak mages are a danger to everyone.  I think personally the mages were provoked in Kirkwell, but that doesn't mean that Fenris was given any reason to change his view of mages.  He doesn't think ALL mages are weak or make deals with demons, he says as much.  But from his experience, if mages are free, the ones who want power take it by whatever means possible, and the ones who don't are slaves as well.

Had Fenris had reason to change his point of view, had there been mages who were not corrupt actually fighting the ones who were, that would be a different story.  

Modifié par ejoslin, 25 avril 2011 - 08:06 .

[Woodstock-TC]

Rifneno wrote...

While I'm an adamant Anders defender, I can see why people would be... less than pleased with the whole bombing thing.  And the betrayal of trust in keeping it a secret even from someone he's supposed to trust with anything (and whom he expects trust in return for, actually exploiting that fact to get help with the grand cleric).

my femHawke mage usually ends up killing both @ endgame. Anders for his treason of friendship (even as sarcastic hawke, killing thousands of innocents is completely unjust and unforgivable and i cant think of any fitting sarcastic remark to it. the best i can offer a former friend is to execute him myself with dignity. Besides that my femhawk appreciates the grand cleric and even though the chantry is basically an indirect foe she generally believes in the maker in a most agnostic way. (thus never invites sebastian in the party either as his babling is disturbing)

I dont court Fenris as mage or try to please him, thus although we help him out with every little hassle he has in all these years and bear and tolerate his annoying self righthous comments and verbal attacks against Merril and other party members, at the end we reach a final confrontation while he sides wiht the templars..
He usually dies in 2 seconds. What a relief.  I miss there a renegade action while he holds his final & short speech, as i would wish one after killing the Arishok instead letting him finish his final words.

greets,
wood ^^

Modifié par Woodstock-TC, 25 avril 2011 - 08:17 .

[Rifneno]

ejoslin wrote...

But is Fenris' view wrong?  When just about every mage you meet in the game ends up an abomination or making deals with demons, he has precious little reason to change his world views.  That he's not all, "ooooh, you're a strong mage, Hawke.  I guess I may be wrong about mages," would be weird to me when everything else you see are mages, who should be able to nuke people without resorting to blood magic, instead turn into demons.

Plus you see powerful mages turn templars into abominations as well.  He's right that mages are very powerful, and weak mages are a danger to everyone.  I think personally the mages were provoked in Kirkwell, but that doesn't mean that Fenris was given any reason to change his view of mages.  He doesn't think ALL mages are weak or make deals with demons, he says as much.  But from his experience, if mages are free, the ones who want power take it by whatever means possible, and the ones who don't are slaves as well.

Had Fenris had reason to change his point of view, had there been mages who were not corrupt actually fighting the ones who were, that would be a different story.  

Okay, totally not the thread for the mage debate.  We're discussing Hawke's relationship options and I was simply stating why I think a mage Hawke would be daft to get involved with Fenris.  There's a million other threads going on about the danger of mages and/or the necessity of the templars.  Can we please leave it out of this one?  This is a good thread.  Hate to see it ruined the same way as that Anders retcon thread got derailed into a sexuality debate (which admittedly I was partially responsible for =/).

[Camenae]

What's the matter Rifneno you don't appreciate a good ol' slightly (okay maybe very) cliche Romeo-and-Juliet romance???? : O