164 réponses à ce sujet

[Rifneno]

Camenae wrote...

What's the matter Rifneno you don't appreciate a good ol' slightly (okay maybe very) cliche Romeo-and-Juliet romance???? : O

Honestly, I never read it.  I'm not even sure whether the analogy is towards Anders or Fenris.

[Camenae]

Fenris. There's no conflict of interest for a mage hawke to romance Anders

[halokitty]

I am a girl who is a fan of girls, and happily romanced the lesbian options in every Bioware game so far. Merrill, despite her own set of issues, was a wonderful romance in Dragon Age 2 and I love her to bits. That said, if Varric was a romance option, I would seriously consider him on a future playthrough. Charming, strong, noble (in his own way,) and not a hint of emo or brooding. The other men of DA2 just look even worse in his shadow.

Paragon of Manliness, indeed!

[Ryzaki]

Camenae wrote...

Fenris. There's no conflict of interest for a mage hawke to romance Anders

But there is a conflict of a interest for a pro-circle Hawke to romance Anders(mage or not). 

[ejoslin]

Rifneno wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

But is Fenris' view wrong?  When just about every mage you meet in the game ends up an abomination or making deals with demons, he has precious little reason to change his world views.  That he's not all, "ooooh, you're a strong mage, Hawke.  I guess I may be wrong about mages," would be weird to me when everything else you see are mages, who should be able to nuke people without resorting to blood magic, instead turn into demons.

Plus you see powerful mages turn templars into abominations as well.  He's right that mages are very powerful, and weak mages are a danger to everyone.  I think personally the mages were provoked in Kirkwell, but that doesn't mean that Fenris was given any reason to change his view of mages.  He doesn't think ALL mages are weak or make deals with demons, he says as much.  But from his experience, if mages are free, the ones who want power take it by whatever means possible, and the ones who don't are slaves as well.

Had Fenris had reason to change his point of view, had there been mages who were not corrupt actually fighting the ones who were, that would be a different story.  

Okay, totally not the thread for the mage debate.  We're discussing Hawke's relationship options and I was simply stating why I think a mage Hawke would be daft to get involved with Fenris.  There's a million other threads going on about the danger of mages and/or the necessity of the templars.  Can we please leave it out of this one?  This is a good thread.  Hate to see it ruined the same way as that Anders retcon thread got derailed into a sexuality debate (which admittedly I was partially responsible for =/).

I'm not trying to start a mage debate either -- I was responding to you calling him a bigot who never changes his mind about mages, and I was pointing out that he really wasn't given reasons to change his mind.  My own personal feelings is that both sides were wrong, but the mages are definitely provoked.  Not the point of what I was saying though.

The mage Hawke/Fenris dynamic is interesting, I think.  You're dealing with two people who fall in love despite themselves, who most likely will never be able to reconcile their differences but maybe can move beyond them anyway.  There are things I don't like about the romance, and things that strain credulity, but that's not one of them.

Modifié par ejoslin, 25 avril 2011 - 08:31 .

[Rifneno]

Ryzaki wrote...

Camenae wrote...

Fenris. There's no conflict of interest for a mage hawke to romance Anders

But there is a conflict of a interest for a pro-circle Hawke to romance Anders(mage or not). 

A pro-circle apostate.  Not stupid at all.

[Ryzaki]

Rifneno wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Camenae wrote...

Fenris. There's no conflict of interest for a mage hawke to romance Anders

But there is a conflict of a interest for a pro-circle Hawke to romance Anders(mage or not). 

A pro-circle apostate.  Not stupid at all.

Really depends on why you're pro-circle and to the degree that you are. I know I don't want idiots like Grace running around unchecked.

All circles aren't like Kirkwall's. 

[KnightofPhoenix]

Idiots like Grace should be tranquilized. She was obviously emotionally unstable when she was caught. Why didn't the Templars think? For all her supposed repression, Meredith sure does not know when to put it to good use.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 25 avril 2011 - 08:35 .

[Camenae]

I don't think there can be a pro-Circle mage Hawke in DA2, at least not a convincing one. I mean of course the player can be pro-Circle, but even if the player wants to play mage- Hawke that way, Hawke doesn't even get an option to join the Circle.  I would think a truly pro-Circle mage Hawke would want to lead by example, so it would seem a bit hypocritical to me for mage-Hawke to be like I'm a pro-circle mage!! but runs around completely free while telling the other apostates to just eat cake.

Modifié par Camenae, 25 avril 2011 - 08:35 .

[Ryzaki]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Idiots like Grace should be tranquilized. She was obviously emotionally unstable when she was caught. Why didn't the Templars think? For all this supposed repression, Meredith sure does not know when to put it to good use.

This is exactly what I thought. <_< 

Camenae wrote...

I don't think there can be a pro-Circle Hawke in DA2. I mean of course the player can be pro-Circle, but even if the player wants to play Hawke that way, Hawke doesn't even get an option to join the Circle. So it would seem a bit hypocritical to me for mage-Hawke to be like I'm a pro-circle mage!! but runs around completely free while telling the other apostates to just eat cake.

Mine worked out fine. I released people like Feynriel (because he had somewhere to go and would be safe and taken care of he also didn't turn into an abomination the second he was in danger (or turn to bloodmagic) idiots like Grace though were sent to the Circle for sheer virtue of being idiots. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 25 avril 2011 - 08:37 .

[Rifneno]

Ryzaki wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Ryzaki wrote...

Camenae wrote...

Fenris. There's no conflict of interest for a mage hawke to romance Anders

But there is a conflict of a interest for a pro-circle Hawke to romance Anders(mage or not). 

A pro-circle apostate.  Not stupid at all.

Really depends on why you're pro-circle and to the degree that you are. I know I don't want idiots like Grace running around unchecked.

All circles aren't like Kirkwall's. 

That's true, but Hawke wasn't in the Ferelden Circle either.  I mean I'm sure you can RP a pro-Circle mage Hawke, but I don't know why anyone would want to play a self-righteous hypocrite.

[Ryzaki]

Rifneno wrote..
That's true, but Hawke wasn't in the Ferelden Circle either.  I mean I'm sure you can RP a pro-Circle mage Hawke, but I don't know why anyone would want to play a self-righteous hypocrite.

Doesn't haveto be a self-righteous hypocrite. 

Mine worked out just fine. He was pro the circle for inexperienced mages that had nowhere else to turn to (or had turned to bloodmagic/forbidden arts). Feynriel was given to the Dalish because the keeper was gonna take care of him. Grace on the other hand had nowhere to go (and no real gameplan and had been consortin with a bloodmage). Tarohne showed herself willing to go to the Circle willingly.

My Hawke was extremely anti bloodmagic. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 25 avril 2011 - 08:40 .

[Camenae]

But if I were a pro-Circle mage Hawke I wouldn't feel right sending Grace and other mages to the Circle while I get to go back home to be with my family or traipse around town barhopping and killing bandits. If she asked me "Well if the Circle's so great, then why aren't you in it? We're both mages, why can't we do what you do?" Then I can't answer with anything other than "cuz I'm the hero of the story lol."

[Ryzaki]

Camenae wrote...


But if I were a pro-Circle mage Hawke I wouldn't feel right sending Grace and other mages to the Circle while I get to go back home to be with my family or traipse around town barhopping and killing bandits. If she asked me "Well if the Circle's so great, then why aren't you in it? We're both mages, why can't we do what you do?" Then I can't answer with anything other than "cuz I'm the hero of the story lol."

No I answer with "I'm not the one running around with a bloodmage boyfriend. LOL" 

And Merrill is left in her hovel in the alienage (and some of my Hawkes would turn her over to the templars but the plot demands that they can't). 

Then again the plot demands I can't kill Grace on sight either. Despite being able to kill others for less. <_< 

That said this style of play doesn't work for everyone. Worked fine for my PC though. 

Modifié par Ryzaki, 25 avril 2011 - 08:46 .

[Deztyn]

Fenris works fine with Mage Hawke. He thinks mages are inherently dangerous in a way mundanes aren't. He's right. He thinks weak willed mages can cause great suffering to the people around them. He's right. He does understand that not all mages are weak or evil and acknowledges it. I like that he can put aside his prejudices and come to love and respect a mage. It shows that he isn't just a "broody bigot".

Now, if you play your mage Hawke as a pro-mage zealot, it doesn't make much sense. Just like it doesn't make sense for an anti-mage extremist to romance Anders or Merrill. I'd call that a flaw in the overall rivalry system, it's not unique to Fenris and the romance options.

[_Somebody]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Idiots like Grace should be tranquilized. She was obviously emotionally unstable when she was caught. Why didn't the Templars think? For all her supposed repression, Meredith sure does not know when to put it to good use.

I think the death of that lover of hers just really messed Grace up even more.

[NitaW]

My first mage romanced (?) Anders and gotten bitten pretty badly. She was bitter after the blackmail and left him alive only so he could realize fully what he had done and live with his regret (if that was at all possible at that point in his, er, "non-possession" by Justice/Vengeance). I am in the throes of attempting to romance Fenris so I can apparently be broken-hearted afterward, but I do like his voice ... my only problem is that I keep getting rivalry points to match the happy points. *sigh* If only Cullen was romanceable ... he actually has a decent head on his shoulders in DA2 as opposed to his DA:O iteration. Plus, is it just me, or is his hotness factor raised just a tad?

[Addai]

Camenae wrote...

But if I were a pro-Circle mage Hawke I wouldn't feel right sending Grace and other mages to the Circle while I get to go back home to be with my family or traipse around town barhopping and killing bandits. If she asked me "Well if the Circle's so great, then why aren't you in it? We're both mages, why can't we do what you do?" Then I can't answer with anything other than "cuz I'm the hero of the story lol."

You can rationalize it that Malcolm started out in the Circle and you had the benefit of his training, but that not all mages do or show themselves responsible with their power.

[Addai]

Rifneno wrote...

Both of those relahionships should've set off some major warning bells beforehand.  A mage getting involved with Fenris is fairly akin to asking OJ Simpson out on a date.  I mean seriously, the guy has more issues than Time Magazine and he focuses them all into a seething hatred against the minority she belongs to. 

Eh, no.  In your first conversation you can niggle him about his attitude toward mages and he says "You are not Danarius.  If you're anything like him remains to be seen."  In the act 2 romance dialogue, you can say "but I'm a mage" and he answers "you bring up a good point, I'll have to think about it."  There's no seething rage.  He's careful, as you would expect from someone who'd been manipulated and tortured by mages- he's not O.J.

[yoshibb]

I don't like "manly men." I love action movies but I have to deal constantly with generic male hero #1563 with no faults coming into a battlefield of like a hundred guys and killing them all with his fists because he's just that good. Watched the Expendables recently and while I enjoyed the movie, I wouldn't date any one of those meatbags. I like a little drama, emotion. I like men to have weaknesses. Honestly, if in some AU ManShep and MaleHawke were dateable, I'd think I'd pass. Especially on ManShep.

It seems like discussing weaknesses or problems is directly equated to whining. I never felt like any of the Bioware LI got to the point where they should be called whiny. Even if they do complain, I understand why they are doing it. It feels like every single male LI has been saddled with the 'whiny' attribute at some point and I just don't see it.

[Addai]

Maria Caliban wrote...

1. It's Lady Hawke, not FemHawke. This isn't ME. That said, at least you didn't use Fem!Hawke.

Is this some sort of law?  People can call her what they want.

2. Lady Hawke has four romance choices. Dude Hawke has four romance choices. It's fine if you swing that way, but stop talking about Fenris and Anders as though they were the only options Lady Hawke has or as though Fenris and Anders romance problems were exclusive to Lady Hawke. A queer Guy Hawke can have the exact same thing happen.

If you're not into roleplaying a bi romance, there are only two options.  The OP is talking about her game.

A bit nitpicky there, again.

Modifié par Addai67, 25 avril 2011 - 09:00 .

[hoorayforicecream]

Addai67 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

2. Lady Hawke has four romance choices. Dude Hawke has four romance choices. It's fine if you swing that way, but stop talking about Fenris and Anders as though they were the only options Lady Hawke has or as though Fenris and Anders romance problems were exclusive to Lady Hawke. A queer Guy Hawke can have the exact same thing happen.

If you're not into roleplaying a bi romance, there are only two options.  The OP is talking about her game.

A bit nitpicky there, again.

Why are we commenting if this is only talking about the OP's game? None of us have played it beside the OP. 

[AlexXIV]

Addai67 wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

1. It's Lady Hawke, not FemHawke. This isn't ME. That said, at least you didn't use Fem!Hawke.

Is this some sort of law?  People can call her what they want.

2. Lady Hawke has four romance choices. Dude Hawke has four romance choices. It's fine if you swing that way, but stop talking about Fenris and Anders as though they were the only options Lady Hawke has or as though Fenris and Anders romance problems were exclusive to Lady Hawke. A queer Guy Hawke can have the exact same thing happen.

If you're not into roleplaying a bi romance, there are only two options.  The OP is talking about her game.

A bit nitpicky there, again.

Yes there is a law. It says it's femHawke, not Lady Hawke.

[Rifneno]

Addai67 wrote...

Camenae wrote...

But if I were a pro-Circle mage Hawke I wouldn't feel right sending Grace and other mages to the Circle while I get to go back home to be with my family or traipse around town barhopping and killing bandits. If she asked me "Well if the Circle's so great, then why aren't you in it? We're both mages, why can't we do what you do?" Then I can't answer with anything other than "cuz I'm the hero of the story lol."

You can rationalize it that Malcolm started out in the Circle and you had the benefit of his training, but that not all mages do or show themselves responsible with their power.

Which is exactly what it is: rationalizing.  The crux of that argument is that the Circle isn't necessary, good training is necessary and the Circle keeps a monopoly on it by use of force.

Addai67 wrote...

Rifneno wrote...

Both of those relahionships should've set off some major warning bells beforehand.  A mage getting involved with Fenris is fairly akin to asking OJ Simpson out on a date.  I mean seriously, the guy has more issues than Time Magazine and he focuses them all into a seething hatred against the minority she belongs to. 

Eh, no.  In your first conversation you can niggle him about his attitude toward mages and he says "You are not Danarius.  If you're anything like him remains to be seen."  In the act 2 romance dialogue, you can say "but I'm a mage" and he answers "you bring up a good point, I'll have to think about it."  There's no seething rage.  He's careful, as you would expect from someone who'd been manipulated and tortured by mages- he's not O.J.

After helping him with Hadriana and being nothing but good to him and anyone else that's not a criminal, he screams that may she rot and all the other mages.  Mage Hawke responds, "Don't forget who you're talking to" and he rages back "I haven't forgotten!"  Yes, I deem him a bigot.

yoshibb wrote...

It seems like discussing weaknesses or problems is directly equated to whining. I never felt like any of the Bioware LI got to the point where they should be called whiny. Even if they do complain, I understand why they are doing it. It feels like every single male LI has been saddled with the 'whiny' attribute at some point and I just don't see it.

Ugh, tell me about it.  If a character in any game voices dissatisfation with anything, they're a massive crybaby.  No matter what they've been through, if you're a stoic robot then you're a "whiner."  It's ridiculous.  And half the gamers hate the "whiners" more than the characters who eat the souls of babies.  I'll never understand the "I hate complainers, so I'm going to complain about them as loudly as I can" mindset of so many gamers.

[Sons of Horus]

Has anyone tried Rival Sebastian Relationship yet?