194 réponses à ce sujet

[Nerevar-as]

Garrus didn´t fail, his father talked him out of it.

Ash or Kaiden as Spectres? As long as it is by merits and not politics I see no problem. Putting Sheppard as a standard is unfair, s/he´s the best of the age.

[Hatchetman77]

Nerevar-as wrote...

Garrus didn´t fail, his father talked him out of it.

Ash or Kaiden as Spectres? As long as it is by merits and not politics I see no problem. Putting Sheppard as a standard is unfair, s/he´s the best of the age.

I always got the impression that Shepard was the equal of Nhilus and Saren.  I think Shepard is the standard.

[Kronner]

JaegerBane wrote...

I think you have to be a little more realistic regarding the material, Kronner. It's all very well branding Kaidan soft and Ashley ordinary on the basis they didn't conquer the universe or whatever, but applying the same standards to Vasir would have her being depicted as someone who's only good at crashing cars and getting pwned, or Saren, who is now the very definition of someone who defeated the object of his job and one big embarassment to the Hierarchy.

Neither of these are fair comments because they don't take into account any factors beyond the immediate circumstances, and neither does decreeing Alenko as being 'soft' when he had the balls to stay at his post and do his job right up to the end, despite the full knowledge he was screwed, or Ash just being an 'ordinary' soldier who takes rockets to the face and doesn't bat an eyelid.

That said, I'm a little surprised Ash or Kaiden have been made Spectres when people like Garrus failed.

Obviously, that is just my biased opinion. I still do not think either of them is a good Spectre material. Perhaps I think of something different when I see or hear "Spectre" than you.

ADLegend21 wrote...
Um. Kaidan is a Staff Commander  in ME2, and outranks Shepard in the Alliance.../../../images/forum/emoticons/lol.png../../../images/forum/emoticons/whistling.png

Are you sure about that? It's been some time since I actually had Kaidan alive in ME2, but I never heard about this. If it's really true..then too bad for me LOL.

ADLegend21 wrote...
Ashley's an ordinary soldier eh? Her technical scores are exemplary and her record is spotless, but due to her family's blacklisting she's gotten all crap assignments up to her assignment on the Normandy and then she's
been trained in all weapons (Sniper, pistol, shotgun, Assault rifle, and possibly heavy with ME2) her unit lvoe dher as a tough but fair Leader and Anderson sees her potential and he's councilor in most games so it's reasonable that he'd put her up for the Spectre's. What was so special about Nihlus, Saren, or Tela Vasir? From the spectre's we've seen besides Shepard, they seem like they were just put there because their species is on the council. Ashley could have defeated Nihlus and Tela Vasir on her own (in my game she does all the work on Saren but
gameplay doesn't matter apparently) Seems like all Spectre's are just ordinary soldiers.

At least Vasir is a biotic and Saren is a ruthless (and capable) bastard with some infiltrator skills and advanced tactics (according to ME Revelation, at least)

We do not have much information beyond that, but it is safe to say both of them (were) are much more experienced (and older). Ashley and Kaidan are still young humans, and neither is a good Spectre IMHO. But as I mentioned above (in response to Jaeger), perhaps I just expect something else from Spectres.

IMHO:
Kaidan is a big softy with no leadership qualities (that he's shown), he is an ass-kisser

Ashley is ordinary soldier, with great bias against aliens..why would the Council make her a Spectre..unless she did something extraordinary (but we do not know about anything).

If it is indeed true, and Ash/Kaidan is a Spectre in ME3, then they might as well make Jack a Spectre too lol.

Modifié par Kronner, 26 avril 2011 - 09:18 .

[ADLegend21]

@Kronner
Yup Staff Commander Alenko. Check his page on the Mass Effect Wiki or talk to Adnerson on teh Citadel in a PT where he's alive.

you think the council wouldn't pick ashley for her Bias Against Aliens (which is non-existent) yet Saren tells Shepard that her species needs to learn it's place in front of the council!!! they obviously don't care that one of their spectre's who was under accusations off attacking a human colony, said something that demeaned humanity so why would they care that Ashley thought/thinks they'd sell humanity out to save their own asses.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Kronner wrote...

We do not have much information beyond that, but it is safe to say both of them (were) are much more experienced. Ashley and Kaidan are still young humans, and neither is a good Spectre IMHO. But as I mentioned above (in response to Jaeger), perhaps I just expect something else from Spectres.

Kaidan is three years older than Shepard. Ash is only four years younger. It has been stated multiple times that Kaidan is one of the most powerful biotics in the alliance military - as powerful as an Asari Commando. It is also stated that Ash has an incredible service record, and was only not promoted higher because of politics around her family history.

Both of them served on Eden Prime, which is a huge deal, in universe. Both of them were on Virmire, also a huge deal.

Don't compare them to Shepard NOW. Compare them to Shepard before ME1 starts. He was just some dude with one single exceptional thing on his service record. Both Kaidan and Ashley have at least two impressive things on their service records (Eden Prime and Virmire, if not more).

[Kronner]

ADLegend21 wrote...

@Kronner
Yup Staff Commander Alenko. Check his page on the Mass Effect Wiki or talk to Adnerson on teh Citadel in a PT where he's alive.

Thanks!
I just read that. Well, at least I learned something new
Commander Alenko..damn, gonna take some time before I get used to it.

ADLegend21 wrote...
you think the council wouldn't pick ashley for her Bias Against Aliens (which is non-existent) yet Saren tells Shepard that her species needs to learn it's place in front of the council!!! they obviously don't care that one of their spectre's who was under accusations off attacking a human colony, said something that demeaned humanity so why would they care that Ashley thought/thinks they'd sell humanity out to save their own asses.

That's only one part of the whole picture..the other is that she's done nothing outside training (unless you count her experience under Shepard's command, and she may or may not be importan..depending on the player).

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Kaidan is three years older than Shepard. Ash is only four years younger. It has been stated multiple times that Kaidan is one of the most powerful biotics in the alliance military - as powerful as an Asari Commando. It is also stated that Ash has an incredible service record, and was only not promoted higher because of politics around her family history.

Both of them served on Eden Prime, which is a huge deal, in universe. Both of them were on Virmire, also a huge deal.

Don't compare them to Shepard NOW. Compare them to Shepard before ME1 starts. He was just some dude with one single exceptional thing on his service record. Both Kaidan and Ashley have at least two impressive things on their service records (Eden Prime and Virmire, if not more).

Shepard is the main guy/gal in his/her single exceptional thing.
Kaidan and Ashley are sidekicks.

And I agree about Kaidan, he is powerful enough, but his personality does not fit with the Spectres, IMHO at least.

I also agree about Ashley, she has been undeservingly punished for something she could not affect in any way, but again - not Spectre material IMHO.

As for Eden Prime..one of them activates the beacon, Shepard has to help.
Neither one is the leader in that mission, Shepard is.
This is hardly exceptional feat IMHO.

Virmire..I suppose this deserves some credit, but Tali, Garrus, Liara and Wrex were there too. Yet, Garrus has not made it to the Spectres (in ME2), and he had just as much (if not more) credentials and achievements as Ash or Kaidan.

Shepard proved (s)he can get the job done, before (s)he made it to the Spectres. Ashley and Kaidan have not demonstrated such ability anywhere in the game IMHO.

In any case, this appears to be a final decision..one of Ash/Kaidan is a Spectre in ME3..I do not really like it, but it is a very minor thing anyway. Maybe we'll get explanation in ME3.

Modifié par Kronner, 26 avril 2011 - 09:41 .

[Elvis_Mazur]

Kronner wrote...
I mean, Garrus has not made it to the Spectres (in ME2), and he had just as much, if not more, credentials and achievements.

As far as I know, Garrus abandoned the goal of being a spectre because of the bereaucracy in the Citadel.

Garrus isn't patient, I think.

[Urdnot Orrad]

Kronner wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

@Kronner
Yup Staff Commander Alenko. Check his page on the Mass Effect Wiki or talk to Adnerson on teh Citadel in a PT where he's alive.

Thanks!
I just read that. Well, at least I learned something new
Commander Alenko..damn, gonna take some time before I get used to it.

ADLegend21 wrote...
you think the council wouldn't pick ashley for her Bias Against Aliens (which is non-existent) yet Saren tells Shepard that her species needs to learn it's place in front of the council!!! they obviously don't care that one of their spectre's who was under accusations off attacking a human colony, said something that demeaned humanity so why would they care that Ashley thought/thinks they'd sell humanity out to save their own asses.

That's only one part of the whole picture..the other is that she's done nothing outside training (unless you count her experience under Shepard's command - which may or may not actually happened, depending on the player).

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Kaidan is three years older than Shepard. Ash is only four years younger. It has been stated multiple times that Kaidan is one of the most powerful biotics in the alliance military - as powerful as an Asari Commando. It is also stated that Ash has an incredible service record, and was only not promoted higher because of politics around her family history.

Both of them served on Eden Prime, which is a huge deal, in universe. Both of them were on Virmire, also a huge deal.

Don't compare them to Shepard NOW. Compare them to Shepard before ME1 starts. He was just some dude with one single exceptional thing on his service record. Both Kaidan and Ashley have at least two impressive things on their service records (Eden Prime and Virmire, if not more).

Shepard is the main guy/gal in his/her single exceptional thing.
Kaidan and Ashley are sidekicks.

And I agree about Kaidan, he is powerful enough, but his personality does not fit with the Spectres, IMHO at least.

I also agree about Ashley, she has been undeservingly punished for something she could not affect in any way, but again - not Spectre material IMHO.

As for Eden Prime..one of them activates the beacon, Shepard has to help.
Neither one is the leader in that mission, Shepard is.
This is hardly exceptional feat IMHO.

Virmire..I suppose this deserves some credit, but Tali, Garrus, Liara and Wrex were there too. Yet, Garrus has not made it to the Spectres (in ME2), and he had just as much (if not more) credentials and achievements as Ash or Kaidan.

Shepard proved (s)he can get the job done, before (s)he made it to the Spectres. Ashley and Kaidan have not demonstrated such ability anywhere in the game IMHO.

If I recall, you can have Shepard be impressed when Garrus tells him/her in ME1 that he was considered for Spectre training. Garrus replies by saying that he was one out of 1000 potential turian Spectre recruits. So for the turians, being a Spectre is not as needing of an exemplary service record and credentials as it would be for a human. In addition, if you do convince him to re-apply for Spectre training in ME1, then in ME2 he says he quit that because the Citadel (and especially the Council itself) downplayed the Reaper threat, and thus he couldn't do anything to continue the work of (in his mind) his dead mentor-- because that's what Shepard was to Garrus in ME1, a mentor of sorts.

[Destroy Raiden_]

Turians train at 15 for military after that I think service is optional but society wise I think most Turians expect their children to be in some form of service related to or maintaining military like structure. So Garrus being considered for spectorship twice while not unusual for Turians is still a deal with any culture. But as we know he failed or didn't meet all requirements twice.

Comparing Ash and Kaiden's training at 18 into the military. Kaiden had more training due to his biotics but he also killed someone so that while not effecting his record officially weights on him mentally. Kaiden personally fits more Captain him being a Commander is barely believable for me and Spector is not a fit for his personality and emotional issues he carries guilt way to easily and can't free himself of it. A spector especially human must survive double duty to the Alliance and to the Council guilt comes with the job and Kaiden would crack under the pressue over time.

Ash has military issues marring her record will create controversy from those on Earth. She took military training at 18 most likely on Eden Prime the fact she served there is like the gas station of the world not a good place to start your military service. She was essentially a glorified rent a cop on that world little action and little stress until the attack occurred the fact she survived seemed to be by chance after meeting shep. It seems doubtful if she would've survived at all if shep's team didn't find her when they did. Now if strings were pulled and they needed to have a political enacted promotion of her she would do fine as a Captain not a Commander and not a Spector she like kaiden has an issue with guilt, but she also suffers from the inability to compromise on her principles which could cause major problems if she was a spector para shep also suffers from this issue and now we got 300,000 deaths to answer for.

Bottom line all three candidates Garrus, Kaiden, Ash are good in battle but not good enough or mentaly strong enough to be spectors.

Modifié par Destroy Raiden , 27 avril 2011 - 02:32 .

[lolwut666]

so i herd u liek spectrez

[Antivenger]

Destroy Raiden wrote...
Bottom line all three candidates Garrus, Kaiden, Ash are good in battle but not good enough or mentaly strong enough to be spectors.

I think their combat abilities are good enough for SpecTRe candidacy, but maybe not their character.

I think it's all comparative, though. If you see SpecTRes as Shepard, charismatic, self-sufficient, (diplomatic and patient for a Para!Shep and ruthlessly efficient and decisive for a Regade!Shep) the embodiment of a strong soldier then no, all three of them wouldn't even make it past their first evaluation.

But if you are willing to make a few exceptions, such as Garrus and Ashley's hot-headed and impatient nature for example, then they would probably be good enough.

Modifié par Antivenger, 27 avril 2011 - 02:59 .

[100k]

Hatchetman77 wrote...

Nerevar-as wrote...

Garrus didn´t fail, his father talked him out of it.

Ash or Kaiden as Spectres? As long as it is by merits and not politics I see no problem. Putting Sheppard as a standard is unfair, s/he´s the best of the age.

I always got the impression that Shepard was the equal of Nhilus and Saren.  I think Shepard is the standard.

Saren > Shepard > Nihilus > Vasir is how I see it. 

Shepard was never able to beat Saren in a one on one when they fought, and only killed Saren when he had two extremely skilled squad mates with him/her. 

[lolwut666]

I'm sure Shepard has surpassed Saren by the time of ME2.

Plus Saren was full of Reaper tech on him, while Shepard was a mostly a normal person by then.

[PrinceLionheart]

lolwut666 wrote...

I'm sure Shepard has surpassed Saren by the time of ME2.

Plus Saren was full of Reaper tech on him, while Shepard was a mostly a normal person by then.

Technically, Shepard has his own implants thanks to Cerberus, so he isn't exactly normal anymore either. 

[Mynoot]

He/she is probably made a spectre to go after Shepherd.

[corporal doody]

the L2 implant might make Kaidan less than a attractive candidate.
Ashley has her father's reputation to contend with. besides...she is loyal to the alliance not shep or the council.


i see neither as spectres. N7 or intelligence or whtever the S is....but not spectre. only way id be cool with it is if they were made spectres in ME3..not before. nothing i have seen or read justifies it. on the contrary...everything says ash is not a spectre. i hope bioware clears this up soon.

[lolwut666]

If a hot-head like Garrus could be considered a Spectre candidate, than so can Ashley. She is just as good a fighter as he is, and she is not much more impulsive.

Kaidan is also a powerful fighter, being one of the strongest human biotics and a top soldier, and he has a very professional attitude, so I don't see why he couldn't be considered for the Spectres.

Remember that, by the time Shepard was made a Spectre, just convincing the Council to consider a human to the position seemed like an impossible dream. Now that humanity has a spot on the Council, Spectre candidates don't need to be on the same level as Shepard.

[Ultai]

lolwut666 wrote...

If a hot-head like Garrus could be considered a Spectre candidate, than so can Ashley. She is just as good a fighter as he is, and she is not much more impulsive.

Kaidan is also a powerful fighter, being one of the strongest human biotics and a top soldier, and he has a very professional attitude, so I don't see why he couldn't be considered for the Spectres.

Remember that, by the time Shepard was made a Spectre, just convincing the Council to consider a human to the position seemed like an impossible dream. Now that humanity has a spot on the Council, Spectre candidates don't need to be on the same level as Shepard.

Have to agree, also no one knows what the hell they've been up to for the, oh you know, 2 YEARS you've been gone.  You could add to that depending on the time frame ME2 starts and ends, thus beginning the next time skip to ME3.

Garrus is too impatient and brash to be a Spectre, since he quit because of the red tape and decided to try and be a super hero on Omega.  I'm not sure what he expected to come out of that, except getting his pals and himself killed eventually (he probably thought he was lucky Cerberus got their eyes on him).  It would have been just a small blip in Omega's history.  Hopefully in ME3 he's matured a bit, since he's one of my favorites.

[Gabey5]

i'm proud of ashley and kaiden

[corporal doody]

wouldnt sending VS after Shep...especially if they were an LI be considered a conflict of interest? i dont see it happening.send a poison pill's lover to hunt a poison pill? nah

VS still members of the alliance assigned to a division investigating Cerberus happen to be following up on a tip regarding Cerberus activities in a area of space the Council WILL NOT get involved in and bump into Shep. That i can see.  

Modifié par corporal doody, 27 avril 2011 - 08:17 .