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[Eternal Phoenix]

I got my 2 handed warrior Templar up to 45 strength, had an axe that dealt 37 (I think, if not, then it was 35) DPS and had an attack speed of 34% + did extra physical damage and still he seemed weak. My mage and rogue classes seem to deal more damage. When playing as Fenris in all my three playthroughs - I notice he seems just as weak and despite giving him high strength in one playthrough - his attacks don't deal the appropriate damage.

Is this some bug? Or is are two handed warriors underpowered now? Seems the mage is more powerful than rogue and warrior. I was going to go through in my 4th playthrough as a sword and shield warrior but through my 3rd playthrough - I struggled to continue as it felt so boring at times. Maybe it's just because the rogue class is boring.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 25 avril 2011 - 06:02 .

[Tigerman123]

Did you use the reaver talents?

[Sabotin]

Did you learn stuff from the vanguard tree? That's where most of the damage comes from.

[Eternal Phoenix]

I used the two handed and templar talents but damage still should have been good due to my strength (45) and weapon. With other classes - my damage has increased just by switching to a higher leveled weapon.

[Sabotin]

Well warriors have better defenses than those two classes and hit multiple targets with their swings, so you can't expect numbers to be that high if you're not willing to invest into damage increasing abilities. The weapon upgrade increases damage as much as for the other classes.

Really, check the vanguard guides and see for yourself that warriors are a force to be reckoned with. I think sabresandiego's would suit you since it includes the templar class.

[Urazz]

Elton John is dead wrote...

I used the two handed and templar talents but damage still should have been good due to my strength (45) and weapon. With other classes - my damage has increased just by switching to a higher leveled weapon.

First off, what is your level and hit %.  If you hit % is low your just going to do nothing but glacing blows.  Also, just relying on just the weapon and the amount of strength you have is only part of your damage.  Get Cleave and it's upgrade in the Vanguard tree as soon as possible and just keep hitting it when it comes off cooldown.  With the upgrade Cleave lasts 15 out of the 20 seconds if I recall and that greatly increases your damage if you only use your abilities when Cleave is active.

Modifié par Urazz, 26 avril 2011 - 01:59 .

[Haplose]

Elton John is dead wrote...

I used the two handed and templar talents but damage still should have been good due to my strength (45) and weapon. With other classes - my damage has increased just by switching to a higher leveled weapon.

Well other classes don't get Talents that boost the damage of their all attacks by +100% (Cleave/Claymore) +x (up to 99%, inverse proportion to health - Reaver Blood Frenzy, with possible x2 with Sacrificial Frenzy).
With attack speed increases of +30% (Reaver talent) + 50% (Berserker Barrage).

You need to pick those talents however to take advantage of their sick multipliers...
Nothing wrong with the damage output of the warrior class, but don't expect dealing huge damage if you only pick defensive talents. The two-handed and even Templar talents also benefit from those multipliers.

[swk3000]

Urazz wrote...
 Get Cleave and it's upgrade in the Vanguard tree as soon as possible and just keep hitting it when it comes off cooldown.  With the upgrade Cleave lasts 15 out of the 20 seconds if I recall and that greatly increases your damage if you only use your abilities when Cleave is active.

For weapons focused on raw damage, the Two-Handed weapon damage is rather unimpressive. Cleave is a solid step towards increasing your damage output, but it's only the first of two steps. The other is in the abilities provided by the Two-Handed tree. Mighty Blow, Scythe, and Whirlwind are powerful on their own; when used while Cleave is active, they're deadly.

The thing to understand about the Two-Handed Warrior is that it's not a DPS'er; it doesn't keep up a steady stream of damage like the Rogue is capable of. A Two-Handed Warrior is, instead, a master of Burst damage. In other words, they have moments where they deal large amounts of damage, after which their damage remains rather low until the abilities that allow them to do their damage come off of cool-down. Cleave does still increase damage even from basic attacks, and having Anders use Haste will also increase damage while your abilities are on cool-down; however, you'll not achieve the high levels of damage your abilities allow you to get while your abilities are on cool-down.

[swk3000]

Haplose wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

I used the two handed and templar talents but damage still should have been good due to my strength (45) and weapon. With other classes - my damage has increased just by switching to a higher leveled weapon.

Well other classes don't get Talents that boost the damage of their all attacks by +100% (Cleave/Claymore) +x (up to 99%, inverse proportion to health - Reaver Blood Frenzy, with possible x2 with Sacrificial Frenzy).
With attack speed increases of +30% (Reaver talent) + 50% (Berserker Barrage).

You need to pick those talents however to take advantage of their sick multipliers...
Nothing wrong with the damage output of the warrior class, but don't expect dealing huge damage if you only pick defensive talents. The two-handed and even Templar talents also benefit from those multipliers.

You've got the incorrect working for Blood Frenzy. Blood Frenzy does not decrease your damage at any time, but the way I'm understanding your reasoning, you're assuming that until your multiplier hits +101%, you're actually suffering from a damage decrease. This isn't the case. If it was, you'd have to be lower than 50% health at all times in order to get any sort of damage boost out of Blood Frenzy. This is dangerous, bordering on unplayable (especially on higher difficulties). The way you explained it (at least as I understand it), if your multiplier is at 50%, your damage is multiplied by 0.5, which is actually decreasing damage.

The key point is the + sign in front of the 200%. This is added on top of your base damage. In other words, if your multiplier is at 50%, you're getting an extra 50% bonus damage, which means that your damage multiplier is 1.5, not 0.5.

When all is said and done, the maximum damage multiplier is 199%. When added to the 100% damage you already inflict, you're final damage multiplier is 299% damage. So the maximum damage you can inflict is just shy of 3 times your normal damage.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Haplose wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

I used the two handed and templar talents but damage still should have been good due to my strength (45) and weapon. With other classes - my damage has increased just by switching to a higher leveled weapon.

Well other classes don't get Talents that boost the damage of their all attacks by +100% (Cleave/Claymore) +x (up to 99%, inverse proportion to health - Reaver Blood Frenzy, with possible x2 with Sacrificial Frenzy).
With attack speed increases of +30% (Reaver talent) + 50% (Berserker Barrage).

You need to pick those talents however to take advantage of their sick multipliers...
Nothing wrong with the damage output of the warrior class, but don't expect dealing huge damage if you only pick defensive talents. The two-handed and even Templar talents also benefit from those multipliers.

I can hardly pick aggressive or defensive abilities when I was focusing on the two handed and Templar skills. You can only fill up two trees and I was aiming for a two handed Templar warrior. My strength was high (45) and my weapon did at least 37 DPS. Yet my rogue (who had no passive skills which led to extra damage apart from critical strikes) did more damage and my mage (again who has no passive skills increasing the damage of the stave) did lots of damage with his 50 fire DPS stave (I think it was 50 DPS, it's Keeper Matheria's stave BTW).

In Origins, damage was based on the weapon and strength of your character. Don't know why it's different here and I didn't want the Reaver spec because it sounds like something for a character who would speak to demons. So I was role playing here when I chose to pick the templar spec.

Apart from his poor damage, his two handed and Templar abilities thankfully did good damage.

[swk3000]

The Reaver spec isn't needed for high damage output; it's simply extra damage. All you actually need is Cleave; Reaver is just icing on the cake.

[SmokeyNinjas]

Although the 2 handed swords are slightly weaker when compared to other weapons of the same lvl their ability to hit multiple enemies & access to a whole host of self damage boosting abilities well more then compensate if your 2 handed warrior feels weak it just means you built him badly

Even then the main job of your 2 handed warrior should be holding aggro & setting up staggers for the rest of the team to kill with

[Sabotin]

Well then here's another tip, you don't need to learn and upgrade all abilities in a tree. Sometimes it pays off to learn just a few specific ones that are useful for your character and spend the extra points on other useful skills.
And you should have enough pioints to fill up 3 trees or so untill the end of the game (lvl ~26 +tomes etc).
But yes as you have noticed, unless you build a warrior specifically with basic attacks in mind it will do damage mainly with skills. That is a bit different from DAO.

[Eternal Phoenix]

SmokeyNinjas wrote...

Although the 2 handed swords are slightly weaker when compared to other weapons of the same lvl their ability to hit multiple enemies & access to a whole host of self damage boosting abilities well more then compensate if your 2 handed warrior feels weak it just means you built him badly

Even then the main job of your 2 handed warrior should be holding aggro & setting up staggers for the rest of the team to kill with

Hardly. I built him as I built my first character in DA:O who happen to turn out alright. My final character in DA:O is a two handed warrior who deals more damage any character I have ever created. His damage is based on his strength (90) and his hammer.

DA2 is not the same and I didn't know you needed passive abilities. I thought the stats actually helped here, I was wrong. Maybe it's just like that with the warrior class and Bioware was trying to lower down the power of it for DA2 and instead build the power for the mage. What we got was an overpowered mage class and a weak warrior class.

[Sabotin]

Err are we talking about the same game? Warriors got a big boost in DA2 I think, while mages got their power spikes blunted down a bit in my opinion.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Sabotin wrote...

Err are we talking about the same game? Warriors got a big boost in DA2 I think, while mages got their power spikes blunted down a bit in my opinion.

Not sure about that. Mages in DA:O were strong enough but in DA2 - they become gods with rock armor, ice, fire and force magic spells. Most mages are incredibly stupid though which is why none of the mages use such spells against the Templar and resort to blood magic where health is drained by casting a spell.

I think the only class that needed improvement from DA was the rogue class. Warriors and mages were okay how they were with their current abilities and damages.

[Urazz]

swk3000 wrote...

Urazz wrote...
 Get Cleave and it's upgrade in the Vanguard tree as soon as possible and just keep hitting it when it comes off cooldown.  With the upgrade Cleave lasts 15 out of the 20 seconds if I recall and that greatly increases your damage if you only use your abilities when Cleave is active.

For weapons focused on raw damage, the Two-Handed weapon damage is rather unimpressive. Cleave is a solid step towards increasing your damage output, but it's only the first of two steps. The other is in the abilities provided by the Two-Handed tree. Mighty Blow, Scythe, and Whirlwind are powerful on their own; when used while Cleave is active, they're deadly.

The thing to understand about the Two-Handed Warrior is that it's not a DPS'er; it doesn't keep up a steady stream of damage like the Rogue is capable of. A Two-Handed Warrior is, instead, a master of Burst damage. In other words, they have moments where they deal large amounts of damage, after which their damage remains rather low until the abilities that allow them to do their damage come off of cool-down. Cleave does still increase damage even from basic attacks, and having Anders use Haste will also increase damage while your abilities are on cool-down; however, you'll not achieve the high levels of damage your abilities allow you to get while your abilities are on cool-down.

Well, I figured if you are going with a 2hander warrior you are already going to get the Two-Handed tree by default.

I agree that a 2hander warrior is basically a master of burst damage but he/she also serves as a tank even if he/she doesn't get any defensive abilities. 

[Sallul]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Hardly. I built him as I built my first character in DA:O who happen to turn out alright. My final character in DA:O is a two handed warrior who deals more damage any character I have ever created. His damage is based on his strength (90) and his hammer.

DA2 is not the same and I didn't know you needed passive abilities. I thought the stats actually helped here, I was wrong. Maybe it's just like that with the warrior class and Bioware was trying to lower down the power of it for DA2 and instead build the power for the mage. What we got was an overpowered mage class and a weak warrior class.

Too much MS-Paint de-railing get to your brain or what?  Why would you not use any passive abilities? Theres at least two guides for 2h warriors on this forum right now. Guess what both focus on as the biggest source of damage? A passive and a near passive (15 second duration 20 second cooldown) abilities.

[Loc'n'lol]

Damage from stats was very inconsistent in DAO (one and two handed weapons got loads, archery a little less, dual wield a lot less and mages almost none).
In DA2 you get one point of damage for two points in your primary attribute, regardless of evrything else (which is also biased towards some character styles but less so than in Origins). That's a lot in the early levels, and not so much later on. Every point is good to take but that's not going to turn you into a monster on its own.

Modifié par _Loc_N_lol_, 27 avril 2011 - 01:11 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

Sallul wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Hardly. I built him as I built my first character in DA:O who happen to turn out alright. My final character in DA:O is a two handed warrior who deals more damage any character I have ever created. His damage is based on his strength (90) and his hammer.

DA2 is not the same and I didn't know you needed passive abilities. I thought the stats actually helped here, I was wrong. Maybe it's just like that with the warrior class and Bioware was trying to lower down the power of it for DA2 and instead build the power for the mage. What we got was an overpowered mage class and a weak warrior class.

Too much MS-Paint de-railing get to your brain or what?  Why would you not use any passive abilities? Theres at least two guides for 2h warriors on this forum right now. Guess what both focus on as the biggest source of damage? A passive and a near passive (15 second duration 20 second cooldown) abilities.

Paint? You mean art. And no, not for Origins and not for my mage and rogue class in DA2. You weren't listening. Strength doesn't seem to matter for the warrior class anymore and that's fail.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 27 avril 2011 - 01:25 .

[Sallul]

No I don't mean art. I mean the stupid **** you post in demotivational threads instead of where it belongs in fan "art" sections. Strength doesn't matter? Lmao not even gonna try anymore. Sorry you can't just pump one stat and be a god now and have to actually know how to do stuff.

Modifié par Sallul, 27 avril 2011 - 02:05 .

[Dio Demon]

Str for Warriors is mostly used for to increase your chance of hitting them. It only slightly increases you DPS, if you aren't doing enough damage get a better sword and some rings, amulets and belts that help increase damage.

[Haplose]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Paint? You mean art. And no, not for Origins and not for my mage and rogue class in DA2. You weren't listening. Strength doesn't seem to matter for the warrior class anymore and that's fail.

Warriors weak? Strength doesn't matter? I also get the feeling we aren't playing the same game.

[Paper420]

Somebody should post some stat calculator or something if theres such thing.

[mr_afk]

Paper420 wrote...

Somebody should post some stat calculator or something if theres such thing.

You could just dump values into excel...
If I can be bothered I'll see if I can setup an excel spreadsheet that labels everything nice and neatly for everyone to put in whatever potential values (and get dps/crit chance etc).

edit: If anyone is interested, here's a quick attempt at an excel calculator. It's put in terms of 100 hits and might have several formula issues though. http://www.mediafire...la331lshhvhxjjw

Modifié par mr_afk, 27 avril 2011 - 12:53 .