193 réponses à ce sujet

[Eternal Phoenix]

AreleX wrote...

Holy ****...people are actually complaining about WARRIORS being weak now? Someone call Grumpy Old Wizard, the universe is incredibly out of balance, and I fear it might collapse upon itself.

The only thing going on here is your failure to change your mindset about the game and the way the class works, despite everyone and their mother telling you that you're wrong. That's why you look like a troll. Are all these people, backing up their arguments with facts, wrong? You're the only sane, intelligent one here? Not likely. You don't understand the game, apparently fail to realize that you don't understand the game, and are getting confrontational with people who are trying to help you.

You've already proven you're not going to think or approach the class differently, so I'm not going to waste my time in this thread, and neither should anyone else. You can continue being bad and ignoring good advice and having a terrible time playing Warrior, it's no skin off mine or anyone else's nose. When, or if, you're ready to stop this crusade of ignorance, you're free to talk to me, and I'd be happy to help you.

You already said you aren't coming back to this thread so you contradict yourself. Where are their theories proven by facts? Have you even read what the stat descriptions state? I disproved your stupid video and you haven't summoned up a defense about it because you couldn't. So me proving the warrior class is weak makes me a troll? And I'm the unintelligent one? Ha.



Want proof my statements are correct? Play the game and read the descriptions of the stats but you probably won't and even if you did, you still wouldn't admit to being wrong, so I'll write their descriptions for you:

Strength - increases attack value for WARRIOR class and damage.
Dexterity - increases attack value for ROGUE class and damage.
Magic - increases attack value for MAGE class and damage.

If my mage + rogue class turned out right based on that logic, then the warrior class should have as well. I've already proven how your warrior is weak. You employ abilities to increase damage, I don't and we both do the same damage. If anyone made a bad build, it was you. Unlike your or their arguments - my argument is supported by the game itself which even states what I said above about the strength, dexterity and magic stats.

When you defend your video, then we can talk.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 28 avril 2011 - 09:51 .

[Sallul]

Your entire argument is that because your auto attacks are weak, and passive/activated abilities are needed to increase damage, the warrior class is underpowered because strength and strength alone doesn't make them a powerhouse like, in your mind, rogues and mages benefit from their primary stats. If you choose not to use the tools given to you by the game, and think warriors are underpowered, go ahead and be my guest like Arelex said, I'll be over here doing 300+ dmg per auto swing to 5+ enemies near passively with 1 activated ability.

The fact that you think warriors are underpowered because they can't auto attack as powerfully as rogues and mages just made me realize how pointless trying to prove anything to you is. Keep sucking as a warrior and we'll keep being good with them.

Modifié par Sallul, 28 avril 2011 - 09:53 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

Rogues and mages benefit from their primary stats? So you admit that? Good because warriors should benefit from their primary stats as well. The rogue and mage stats are like that in every RPG I have played and Dragon Age 2 follows that, so why would it change it for the warrior class alone? Keep in mind that my warrior's weapon didn't increase his damage much whereas the weapons of my rogue and mage increased their damage even more. So if these two classes can function perfectly without activating abilities (which no warrior class in any decent RPG should have to do), then the warrior should to. Prove that logic wrong.

And no, I do not suck at being a warrior. Didn't I already explain that my warrior does as much damage as that other person's warrior in that video? My warrior doesn't even employ abilities so that makes your warrior and his warrior the worst builds ever if you need to use Anders' spells and activate abilities to actually defeat enemies (and do good damage) as a warrior which once again proves my point. Underpowered.

There's no logic in your argument whatsoever. Strength is what increases someone's power, their damage and what they can wield. You shouldn't need to activate demon powers to actually score good damage. Your weapon and strength should be what causes damage, the game even states that if you read the stat description but it doesn't appear to be the case.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 28 avril 2011 - 10:00 .

[Sallul]

I don't have to "prove" anything, there's literally a dozen videos that show warrior strength. You refuse to use in game abilities to make your character strong because in your warped logic you believe they shouldn't be necessary. That's your opinion, it's incredibly short sighted and wrong, but it's your opinion.

Post a video of 300+dmg auto attacks*non crits* with no cleave then.

Modifié par Sallul, 28 avril 2011 - 09:59 .

[Sallul]

Elton John is dead wrote...


There's no logic in your argument whatsoever. Strength is what increases someone's power, their damage and what they can wield. You shouldn't need to activate demon powers to actually score good damage. Your weapon and strength should be what causes damage, the game even states that if you read the stat description but it doesn't appear to be the case.

Lmfao. Done. Have fun believing you are awesome and every single other person is bad. Some people are too far gone to be saved apparently.

[swk3000]

Final thought for this thread: Two-Handed Warriors aren't DPS fighters; they're Burst Fighters. Trying to force them into a DPS role isn't going to work.

Later.

[Eternal Phoenix]

No. I was role playing as you should role play in a RPG. You may not understand it but if I'm playing as someone who hates mages because they could become vessels to demons - who my character also hates - why would he then learn the reaver skill tree where demons teach him these abilities? Was the reaver skill tree necessary to increase damage in DA:O? Besides, the reaver tree only increases damage when health is lowed which means your warriors must have been getting their asses handed back to them.

Your video:



Hawke does 100 (+) damage when having at least 7 bonuses. My warrior did 100 (+) without any abilities activated. Your 300 damage part is unachievable as my warrior, that character activates at least three abilities after the 7 initial bonuses to achieve that but those abilities last for a few seconds before wearing out. I also see you've got mighty offensive potion activated. So yes, your damage is going to be higher than mine if you're using potions and Anders' spells to increase your damage. Anders is using Heroic Aura as well which increases damage further more if I recall correctly. My mage and rogue don't even need to use such abilities, potions and spells to score high damage. Why does a warrior need to use such things to increase their damage? I don't have anything against the Heroic Aura but when mages and rogues do more damage than a warrior without those abilities activated and a warrior needs those abilities activated it points to the warrior being underpowered compared to those two classes.

Is that really too hard to accept? Everyone knows the rogue class in Origins was the weakest class and everyone knows the rogue class in DA2 is the best class to be if you want to get your ass handed back to you after two hits by a mature dragon but it has its bonuses. Now in DA2 - the warrior class is simply the best class to be if you wish to be a good defender but when it comes to damage - potions, spells, passive abilities and abilities are needed just to score 300 damage whereas a rogue or mage can score 300 damage without potions and spells which increase damage.

See what I'm saying?

[Eternal Phoenix]

swk3000 wrote...

Final thought for this thread: Two-Handed Warriors aren't DPS fighters; they're Burst Fighters. Trying to force them into a DPS role isn't going to work.

Later.

Strength gamer disagrees:

http://www.strengthg..._Abilities.html

[Eternal Phoenix]

Sallul wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...


There's no logic in your argument whatsoever. Strength is what increases someone's power, their damage and what they can wield. You shouldn't need to activate demon powers to actually score good damage. Your weapon and strength should be what causes damage, the game even states that if you read the stat description but it doesn't appear to be the case.

Lmfao. Done. Have fun believing you are awesome and every single other person is bad. Some people are too far gone to be saved apparently.

Whatever kid. Unlike you, I don't judge people over an opinion on a game. No one is bad for thinking the warrior class is powerful. Morality never came into this but if that's how you think about games and their arguments, very well. I feel sorry for you. You entered this thread holding a grudge against your "motivational posters" thread that got closed and were blaming it on me. Not my problem.

[Sallul]

I never once posted in the motivational thread. Your ego does you harm.

Modifié par Sallul, 28 avril 2011 - 10:37 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

"Lmfao. Done. Have fun believing you are awesome and every single other person is bad. Some people are too far gone to be saved apparently."

You really contradict yourself be coming back here. Is your ego that big that you can't leave this thread alone now that your theory has been crushed? (Which is obvious since you've made no attempt to defend it)

[Sallul]

Done debating your stupidity =/= done posting. Thanks for putting words in my mouth though it makes you look even better than you already do.

[Bones40]

This thread is hilarious.

Videos have been posted, guides have been linked, the damage formula from the game showing exactly how STR/DEX/MAG all effect damage in the exact same manner has been posted...

But a poorly built warrior trumps all hard evidence. It's over folks, you and the data are wrong.

Modifié par Bones40, 28 avril 2011 - 11:28 .

[Iyashi]

Elton John is dead wrote...

"Lmfao. Done. Have fun believing you are awesome and every single other person is bad. Some people are too far gone to be saved apparently."

You really contradict yourself be coming back here. Is your ego that big that you can't leave this thread alone now that your theory has been crushed? (Which is obvious since you've made no attempt to defend it)

And now your complaining about "OH MY WARRIOR IS SO WEAK" or "YOUR VIDEO IS STUPID". Seriously? Just play the game for christ sake. No matter what answer any of us gives, you'll just complain even more.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Sallul wrote...

Done debating your stupidity =/= done posting. Thanks for putting words in my mouth though it makes you look even better than you already do.

Just like you quote out of context. Goodbye, come again.

[Eternal Phoenix]

And for you other two who aren't listening - my warrior does the damage the warriors in those videos do when they attack without any aid. My point was that WARRIORS ARE WEAKER THAN ROGUES AND MAGES. Show me a video where a warrior does more damage without using an active ability or by drinking a potion. Mages are more powerful and so are rogues. Despite the class screen calling the two handed warrior a powerful foe when this is not the case. Nuff said.

No one has proven me wrong and so the case is closed.

/End.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 29 avril 2011 - 12:38 .

[Catalol]

Kudos if you are trolling.. kudos...
However if you are being serious you should try a change of perspective. For starters the description for the Strength stat is not misleading you - it obviously just does not make you god mode auto attack crazy like what your expectations appear to be (based on the comments you've made).

The funny thing is that even after watching Arelex's video showing you a strong build for great sustained damage for a warrior - demonstrating a playstyle relying heavily on autoattacks (you should really try it out as you sound not too keen on the whole wait for abilities to recharge), you still deny the fact that warriors are actually really strong.

My firm belief is that 2hd Warriors are centered around burst - probably have the highest burst potential of the 3 classes. Read the abilities that you can pick up and utilize them; that's what great gems like cleave/claymore are there for. If you want to ignore those abilities - which is fine - don't argue that warrior damage is underpowered. As I stated above warrior damage is spiky and if you don't like that type of playstyle and you just want the sustained damage of a rogue, well I suggest you should play.... ummm.... a rogue?

If that's not good enough for you then try a different role for your warrior - doesn't have to be the best damage dealer around - you can spec them out for utility; setting up cross class combos (which the two stickied guides provide a build for which also does good damage at the same time) or you could build a mana/stamina **** (I can't remember the name of the ability that buffs teammates regeneration by silly amounts for a duration) damage is not always the end all be all.

Nonetheless if you are indeed trolling (which seems to be the case) well done for grabbing so much attention.

[Iyashi]

Elton John is dead wrote...

And for you other two who aren't listening - my warrior does the damage the warriors in those videos do when they attack without any aid. My point was that WARRIORS ARE WEAKER THAN ROGUES AND MAGES. Show me a video where a warrior does more damage without using an active ability or by drinking a potion. Mages are more powerful and so are rogues. Despite the class screen calling the two handed warrior a powerful foe when this is not the case. Nuff said.

No one has proven me wrong and so the case is closed.

/End.

... Rouges do more damage then a warrior, sure. On a single target. On Multiple? No. Your probably just testing your theory out on one person... Warriors can hit multiple enemies with average damage. Mages can do great AoE spells at the cost of killing their own teammate. Warriors can just swing their swords without killing anyone with great damage, and multiple enemies at once.

/I think I'm cool by ending my posts like this

[Urazz]

Iyashi wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

And for you other two who aren't listening - my warrior does the damage the warriors in those videos do when they attack without any aid. My point was that WARRIORS ARE WEAKER THAN ROGUES AND MAGES. Show me a video where a warrior does more damage without using an active ability or by drinking a potion. Mages are more powerful and so are rogues. Despite the class screen calling the two handed warrior a powerful foe when this is not the case. Nuff said.

No one has proven me wrong and so the case is closed.

/End.

... Rouges do more damage then a warrior, sure. On a single target. On Multiple? No. Your probably just testing your theory out on one person... Warriors can hit multiple enemies with average damage. Mages can do great AoE spells at the cost of killing their own teammate. Warriors can just swing their swords without killing anyone with great damage, and multiple enemies at once.

/I think I'm cool by ending my posts like this

Nah I gotta disagree on your point about mages.

Mages do the best AOE damage and have the best CC ability.  They do poor single target dps and are squishy.

Rogues do the best single target dps and have the most survival tools to lower threat and/or escape damage.  They do lousy AOE damage and are a bit squishy as well.

Warriors have great burst dps and are the best at tanking.  They are middle of the pack in sustainable dps in single target and AOE dps but have practically no CC.

Either way every class has it's own strength's and weaknesses and aren't really overpowered.

[Amioran]

Elton John is dead wrote...
Strength - increases attack value for WARRIOR class and damage.
Dexterity - increases attack value for ROGUE class and damage.
Magic - increases attack value for MAGE class and damage.

OMG, what part of
ALL THOSE ATTRIBUTES INCREASES DAMAGE BY 0.5 POINTS AFTER 10
don't you understand? It is not so difficult to comprehend, isn't it?

They all work the same. The damage output depends (in percentual) on the amount of base damage the weapon does. In fact, bows have the higher damage output (and so dexterity actuallly means LESS for them), DW second (taking both daggers in consideration) , staves third, two handed fourth, S&S fifth. This is for a motive: ALL OF THE FIRST THREE WEAPONS DO DAMAGE TO A SINGLE TARGET ONLY. 

Would you want a weapon that attacks in an AoE (and large for what it concerns 2handed) doing more base damage than weapons that hit only one enemy at a time? What complete idiocy that would be? What you say makes no sense, at all.

You have seriously an inability of comprehension, isn't it? Damage is increased IN THE SAME EXACT WAY, but the amount you see in the final calcualtion depends on the weapon you use. Since base damage of two-handed is low, strength has MORE impact, but it is still in percentual to the base damage the weapon does, so, in TOTAL, is lower. Since the base is low you need some boosting passives.

In DAO, instead, two-handed had the MOST RAW DAMAGE FROM WEAPON, for this the "discrepancy" you see and you cannot adapt to. BUT THE ATTRIBUTES, THEY WORKED EXACTLY IN THE SAME WAY for what it concerned boosting damage. The difference is that in DAO 2handed was single target only, for this the more raw damage on the weapon, or it would have been unbalanced (either more than it was already).

Was DAO the right approach? NO, IT WASN'T. In fact DA2 is much more balanced and makes much more sense.

This will be my last attempt on making you reason on your complete fallacy of your "argument", both from a logical and technical pow. You should really start to learn a bit of what you are talking about before complaining, don't you know?

Modifié par Amioran, 29 avril 2011 - 09:17 .

[Amioran]

Elton John is dead wrote...

And for you other two who aren't listening - my warrior does the damage the warriors in those videos do when they attack without any aid. My point was that WARRIORS ARE WEAKER THAN ROGUES AND MAGES.

Their base damage from the base weapon added to primary attribute is lower, and it should be, because they have AoE attacks (differently from mages and rogues). Same goes for S&S.

More, you can use ELEMENTAL weapons, that overcomes armor.

[Eternal Phoenix]

Catalol wrote...

Kudos if you are trolling.. kudos...
However if you are being serious you should try a change of perspective. For starters the description for the Strength stat is not misleading you - it obviously just does not make you god mode auto attack crazy like what your expectations appear to be (based on the comments you've made).

The funny thing is that even after watching Arelex's video showing you a strong build for great sustained damage for a warrior - demonstrating a playstyle relying heavily on autoattacks (you should really try it out as you sound not too keen on the whole wait for abilities to recharge), you still deny the fact that warriors are actually really strong.

My firm belief is that 2hd Warriors are centered around burst - probably have the highest burst potential of the 3 classes. Read the abilities that you can pick up and utilize them; that's what great gems like cleave/claymore are there for. If you want to ignore those abilities - which is fine - don't argue that warrior damage is underpowered. As I stated above warrior damage is spiky and if you don't like that type of playstyle and you just want the sustained damage of a rogue, well I suggest you should play.... ummm.... a rogue?

If that's not good enough for you then try a different role for your warrior - doesn't have to be the best damage dealer around - you can spec them out for utility; setting up cross class combos (which the two stickied guides provide a build for which also does good damage at the same time) or you could build a mana/stamina **** (I can't remember the name of the ability that buffs teammates regeneration by silly amounts for a duration) damage is not always the end all be all.

Nonetheless if you are indeed trolling (which seems to be the case) well done for grabbing so much attention.

Thanks. You are quite polite. You seem like a good man and if I was trolling, I would certainly PM you with every troll topic I make but that's not the case here. I made this topic because I noticed my warrior was weaker than my rogue and mage. You claim strength can't make my character into an "god mode auto attack crazy like my expectations appear to be" but when my this happened with my rogue and mage, am I not to think my warrior should be more powerful? I'm fine with using abilities but stamina runs out eventually and that's when I have to mash the A button while waiting for my stamina potion to recharge and then for those abilities to recharge. So during that time of button mashing, I should expect at least some good damage to be done. 

For those of you still arguing against me. Simply start a new game and look at what the game says about the warrior class. Shield and sword for defense, two handed for high damage. Yet I found the mage and rogue did more damage with abilities and without abilities. Is it so wrong that I believe the mage and rogue class are more powerful in damage than the warrior class?

[Eternal Phoenix]

Amioran wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...
Strength - increases attack value for WARRIOR class and damage.
Dexterity - increases attack value for ROGUE class and damage.
Magic - increases attack value for MAGE class and damage.

OMG, what part of
ALL THOSE ATTRIBUTES INCREASES DAMAGE BY 0.5 POINTS AFTER 10
don't you understand? It is not so difficult to comprehend, isn't it?

They all work the same. The damage output depends (in percentual) on the amount of base damage the weapon does. In fact, bows have the higher damage output (and so dexterity actuallly means LESS for them), DW second (taking both daggers in consideration) , staves third, two handed fourth, S&S fifth. This is for a motive: ALL OF THE FIRST THREE WEAPONS DO DAMAGE TO A SINGLE TARGET ONLY. 

Would you want a weapon that attacks in an AoE (and large for what it concerns 2handed) doing more base damage than weapons that hit only one enemy at a time? What complete idiocy that would be? What you say makes no sense, at all.

You have seriously an inability of comprehension, isn't it? Damage is increased IN THE SAME EXACT WAY, but the amount you see in the final calcualtion depends on the weapon you use. Since base damage of two-handed is low, strength has MORE impact, but it is still in percentual to the base damage the weapon does, so, in TOTAL, is lower. Since the base is low you need some boosting passives.

In DAO, instead, two-handed had the MOST RAW DAMAGE FROM WEAPON, for this the "discrepancy" you see and you cannot adapt to. BUT THE ATTRIBUTES, THEY WORKED EXACTLY IN THE SAME WAY for what it concerned boosting damage. The difference is that in DAO 2handed was single target only, for this the more raw damage on the weapon, or it would have been unbalanced (either more than it was already).

Was DAO the right approach? NO, IT WASN'T. In fact DA2 is much more balanced and makes much more sense.

This will be my last attempt on making you reason on your complete fallacy of your "argument", both from a logical and technical pow. You should really start to learn a bit of what you are talking about before complaining, don't you know?

Read my last post and check your game. The game clearly states two handed warriors deal more damage than all classes but like another user above you stated - mages and rogues are more powerful. People have already said that dexterity and magic increase that class' damage more than strength does for a warrior. In my opinion, warrior are weak. If you can't accept my opinion then that's your own fault but calling my argument fallacy when you can't support yours is just poor.

So either you're playing a totally different game or you didn't check the class screen.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 29 avril 2011 - 02:05 .

[Sabotin]

Where in the game does it state that two handed warriors deal more damage than all classes, I can't find that?

And actually they do indeed make the most damage, just not the highest. Remember they can hit 4+ targets at once, while a rogue or mage just 1. If you add that up, mages and rogues don't come close.

[Amioran]

Elton John is dead wrote...
Read my last post and check your game. The game clearly states two handed warriors deal more damage than all classes but like another user above you stated - mages and rogues are more powerful.

Ok, good to know you clearly avoided all I've said, and totally missed the point.

Sorry but with someone that doesn't want to hear no word will suffice.

Oh, and, btw, 38 damage (2handed) vs 4 targets at once (minimum), is more damage than 110 (bow, highest damage weapon) vs one target only. Math it's not your greatest trait it seems, as it is not comprehension nor knowledge. The game tooltips are correct, in fact, it is only you that don't understand how things works.

I leave you to your great IQ.

"Try to talk sense in a fool and he will think you foolish" - Discorides.

Modifié par Amioran, 29 avril 2011 - 04:33 .