193 réponses à ce sujet

[Eternal Phoenix]

imadipp wrote...

-le sigh- i'll bite.

First of all, your argument is based on a fallacy of game design you proposed in the opening post. You believe strength does nothing, which is wrong. You then compound your argument on outdated "facts" and points that "disprove" those who wish to help you out. You suggest that rogues and mages do better single target damage than two-handed warriors, without the help of abilities. This is true, comparing a rogue's single target forte to a two-handers single target damage would put it in the favor of the rogue. The rogue however doesn't sweep it's attacks across 4-5 enemies at a time, leaving the warrior to excel against groups of melee enemies, something that happens in nearly every fight in the game.

Your "point" is that warriors weilding two handed weapons are weak against single targest, compared to a rogue or a mage. This is true.

You ignore all the benefits of two-handed warriors to whine about their lack of single target damage, or perhaps you want the same single target damage of the rogue, on the warrior, while also being able to hit extra enemies in the process.

Whatever the case, play a rogue or mage, and leave the real warriors to their pleasure.

They said many things had been changed since the demo. I guess in your version of DA2 there are no reused areas? Thought so. Call those quotes outdated if you must. Can you really call the in-game quotes wrong? I played the 2 handed warrior class the same way I played it as I did in Origins making a very powerful 2 handed warrior in the process. It seems damage was scraped for AoE damage in DA2. Which I have a problem with. I don't have a problem with the changes to the rogue or mage class. So in the end it seems people like having an 2 handed warrior who does AoE damage as opposed to doing heavy damage with all strikes like with Origins. I still think the Origins' 2 handed warrior is better but that's just my opinion.

What annoys me is how people thought I was trolling by creating this topic when I was simply asking a question and later pointing out what I think is a flaw with the warrior class. Just like I think a flaw with the mage class is that it's too powerful.

There's not much more I can say on this. This is just my opinion. You don't have to like it.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 02 mai 2011 - 11:52 .

[Sallul]

Elton John is dead wrote...
. A rogue shouldn't do more damage than a warrior. If you think that's how an RPG should be like, then enjoy your DA2.

Rogues do 50k + damage with one attack. I enjoy that

[Eternal Phoenix]

Sallul wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...
A rogue shouldn't do more damage than a warrior. If you think that's how an RPG should be like, then enjoy your DA2.

Rogues do 50k + damage with one attack. I enjoy that

Another flaw with the rogue class. Pretty much the point I've been making throughout the whole of this topic and you finally get it! This calls for celebration! 


You can kill boss characters with one hit as the rogue and once you get 100% critical hit chance, that's it. No enemy stands a chance.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 02 mai 2011 - 11:55 .

[imadipp]

But that's the point, damage isn't scrapped, it's actually quite high. You're trying to cut down a tree with a butter knife, and then complaining to the saw that it doesn't work. All you need to do is use the tools given to you, and you'd succeed. My two handed warrior did amazing but I agree that single target was a weakness. I went to a Sword and shield vanguard/reaver/SnS and it did wonders. Assault (upgraded to battery) is a great single target damager, and Assail from the vanguard tree (upgraded) is good to use while Cleave is on cooldown.

[Eternal Phoenix]

imadipp wrote...

But that's the point, damage isn't scrapped, it's actually quite high. You're trying to cut down a tree with a butter knife, and then complaining to the saw that it doesn't work. All you need to do is use the tools given to you, and you'd succeed. My two handed warrior did amazing but I agree that single target was a weakness. I went to a Sword and shield vanguard/reaver/SnS and it did wonders. Assault (upgraded to battery) is a great single target damager, and Assail from the vanguard tree (upgraded) is good to use while Cleave is on cooldown.

I understand you can make a powerful 2 handed warrior. I just believe what we got should have been more powerful. Whereas a sword and shield warrior should have been weaker from the 2 handed but better in defense but that's just me.

In any case. I think this thread has outlived itself.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 02 mai 2011 - 11:58 .

[imadipp]

That's exactly the case, though. You can't be good at everything in this game. A two handed warrior will do similar damage on one target, but hits more targets total, equalling out to higher damage. Just speaking of auto attacks, two handers are stronger, speaking of abilities, both have similar enhancements. Might blow = assault. Assail I dare say is better with two handers than a sword and board.

[blothulfur]

Come on Ejid it's basic physics that a six foot long effin huge claymore does a lot less damage than a pair of butter knives, it's bloody stupid that my reaver does less damage than a bandana stripper and for me totally devalues the whole warrior class.

[Amioran]

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Provide where they didn't say that. You've already said that they said the full game would be different from the demo. [/quote]

That's different than stating that the prologue will be different. Again, you don't read or don't comprehend what you read.

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Quotes or none of your comments are true. I provide game quotes, you provide nothing. You can't call me wrong until you use evidence. As always, it's just your opinion which is very very wrong.[/quote]

The "quotes" you provided are just ONE and it's neither a proof of nothing because it completely contradicts the point you are making.

I have no intention on losing time educating you providing quotes and whatnot, primarly because:

A) You will discard them altogheter as you've done before just because you want to be right also in front of evidence.
You will probably turn them around comprehending all another thing as you've already done.
C) There's no need of those because, again, it is a matter of logic.

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Calling someone an idiot and brain dead is an insult when no evidence backs this claim. I call you what is truth.[/quote]

It is not an insult if the person behaves that way, it is just how things are.

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
You say I do not read what people say but you obviously do not read what people say. I've already corrected you on your spelling before and you make a mistake again and spell support wrong even when I corrected you last time on the same spelling mistake. [/quote]

It was a joke, genius.

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Idiocy isn't getting a game feature wrong, idiocy is making spelling mistakes as you do. You provide a great example of irony here. It's too painful at times and really does you no justice. It's like an uneducated fool who can't speak correctly calling someone who was educated an idiot - it's too painful.[/quote]

See? Another missing connection. You couldn't get the sarcasm, completely missed the point, and now you are either trying to look good doing it.

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Warrior class is a great starter class means that it's easy. Did I ever deny that? Perhaps you should read my quote again. It still doesn't deny the fact that the 2 handed warrior does small damage. Did Stan ever say the damage was increased in his quote? No. Other bonuses were added and this was mentioned.[/quote]

It was implicit. Again, try to make connections for God's sake. There's a motive that brain is there, don't you know?

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Peter Thomas stated it? Where's his quote? You're a fool using the AoE argument as your support. [/quote]

He wrote extensively on various gameplay dynamics on a thread before the game went gold.

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Use mighty blow on a single enemy and it whipes him out (and gives him the most damage) and the people around him. [/quote]

That's an ability that does spike damage. You are mixing thing (as always). First you talk about base attacks and how you don't want abilities to do damage, then you mix in abilities to try to prove the exact contrary point.

You have a lot of confusion inside you it seems. Do you either grasp in reality what you are trying to prove and what you will want? You know, looking at what you write it doesn't seem so.

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Where's the logic that banging a sword into the ground would destroy (or harm) all enemies around you? [/quote]

LOL. So, let me guess: do you really think that if you swing an about 2 meters long sword around you don't hit more than a target in real life and the damage doesn't distrubute? You are a genius on physics it seems, as in many other things.

The animations of abilities are just for "scene" mechanics. Debating on thjeir "realism" is out of place, btw.

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Again. Another flaw in the game that I have pointed out. You will deny this though because you're a Biodrone.[/quote]

And so do you really think that "logic"? Sure, base attacks should do the same damage as abilities. Let's make also mage do the same damage via staff attacks as they do with spells.

OMG, but do you really understand what the hell you are saying?

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
A) Doesn't matter. You were obviously educated in it and when I corrected you on your spelling, you shouldn't have have made the same mistake again. [/quote]

Damn, it was a joke, a pun, in fact I corrected it in the edit with a smile apposedly for either you to understand it.

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Well you obviously don't know what truth is nor do you know what the word idiot means.[/quote]

Good. Another example of your supreme logic. "You don't know how a car works so you cannot understand nothing about painting". It makes a lot of sense, as all the rest.

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Yes, how the game works is an opinion. If I say "The warrior class is rubbish and should be different" that's an opinion and if you say "The warrior class is the best class and was better than Origins warrior class" that's an opinion. Before you reply, look up the definition of opinion.[/quote]

A) No, how the game works is not opinion. It simply how it works.
Your concept of "rubbish" is derived from the fact that you dont' either grasp what's really happening, how gameplay mechanics should be concepted or what's behind them, and you don't either grasp simple logic.
C) The warrior class is much better now, because it is more balanced in the context of the other choices.
D) The "solutiions" you propose are hilarious at best. It would be fun if you had a little programming ability trying to put them on a game, so you will finally see the idiocy of the things you say. Sadly this is not happening so you can fantasize on being a genius how much you want.

Modifié par Amioran, 03 mai 2011 - 09:40 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

[quote]blothulfur wrote...

Come on Ejid it's basic physics that a six foot long effin huge claymore does a lot less damage than a pair of butter knives, it's bloody stupid that my reaver does less damage than a bandana stripper and for me totally devalues the whole warrior class.[/quote]

Precisely my point. Fantasy RPGs aren't meant to be realistic but they should have some form of realism and normally do. 2 handed weapons in all RPGs (with DA2 being the exclusion on the account of it being "awesome!") normally do more damage than all other weapons - with the sacrifice of speed and defense. It's just a shame people think the DA2 two handed warrior is what a 2 handed should be like.

As for Amioran: just because the two handed does AoE damage doesn't mean it shouldn't be powerful. It was meant to be powerful but it seems Bioware failed with creating it powerful. Knives and rogues with hardly any strength do more damage and due to the fact that they become super fast, they can dispatch enemies quicker than it takes a 2 handed warrior to swing three hits with his sword. Get a rogue knife that does damage in 2 meters and you've got a powerful class than the 2 handed warrior that dispatches enemies quicker than the AoE attacks of the 2 handed.

[quote]Amioran wrote...

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Provide where they didn't say that. You've already said that they said the full game would be different from the demo. [/quote]

That's different than stating that the prologue will be different. Again, you don't read or don't comprehend what you read.

[/quote]

How is it different? You don't even give defense for your arguments. You just present them as fact without proof.

[quote]Amioran wrote...
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Quotes or none of your comments are true. I provide game quotes, you provide nothing. You can't call me wrong until you use evidence. As always, it's just your opinion which is very very wrong.[/quote]

The "quotes" you provided are just ONE and it's neither a proof of nothing because it completely contradicts the point you are making.

I have no intention on losing time educating you providing quotes and whatnot, primarly because:

A) You will discard them altogheter as you've done before just because you want to be right also in front of evidence.
You will probably turn them around comprehending all another thing as you've already done.
C) There's no need of those because, again, it is a matter of logic.

[/quote]

I provided three in-game quotes. You ignored all of them. You've already contradicted yourself here, so let's move on.

[quote]Amioran wrote...

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Calling someone an idiot and brain dead is an insult when no evidence backs this claim. I call you what is truth.[/quote]

It is not an insult if the person behaves that way, it is just how things are.

[/quote]

Another contradiction. Let's move on because this will be a waste of time.

[quote]Amioran wrote...

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
You say I do not read what people say but you obviously do not read what people say. I've already corrected you on your spelling before and you make a mistake again and spell support wrong even when I corrected you last time on the same spelling mistake. [/quote]

It was a joke, genius.

[/quote]

Sure. That's the worst excuse I've ever heard. Spelling something wrong is a joke. Last time you said English wasn't your native language.

[quote]Amioran wrote...

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Idiocy isn't getting a game feature wrong, idiocy is making spelling mistakes as you do. You provide a great example of irony here. It's too painful at times and really does you no justice. It's like an uneducated fool who can't speak correctly calling someone who was educated an idiot - it's too painful.[/quote]

See? Another missing connection. You couldn't get the sarcasm, completely missed the point, and now you are either trying to look good doing it.

[/quote]

Yet another contradiction. I won't waste time here.

[quote]Amioran wrote...

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Warrior class is a great starter class means that it's easy. Did I ever deny that? Perhaps you should read my quote again. It still doesn't deny the fact that the 2 handed warrior does small damage. Did Stan ever say the damage was increased in his quote? No. Other bonuses were added and this was mentioned.[/quote]

It was implicit. Again, try to make connections for God's sake. There's a motive that brain is there, don't you know?

[/quote]

It wasn't implicit.

/End

[quote]Amioran wrote...

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Peter Thomas stated it? Where's his quote? You're a fool using the AoE argument as your support. [/quote]

He wrote extensively on various gameplay dynamics on a thread before the game went gold.

[/quote]

Thread please.

[quote]Amioran wrote...
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Use mighty blow on a single enemy and it whipes him out (and gives him the most damage) and the people around him. [/quote]

That's an ability that does spike damage. You are mixing thing (as always). First you talk about base attacks and how you don't want abilities to do damage, then you mix in abilities to try to prove the exact contrary point.

[/quote]

Wrong. You said a 2 handed warrior doesn't do high damage on one enemy, abilities do, so should basic attacks. If I hit the enemy in front of me, he should take more damage than the enemies around me because I'm focusing on him.

[quote]Amioran wrote...

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Where's the logic that banging a sword into the ground would destroy (or harm) all enemies around you? [/quote]

LOL. So, let me guess: do you really think that if you swing an about 2 meters long sword around you don't hit more than a target in real life and the damage doesn't distrubute? You are a genius on physics it seems, as in many other things.

[/quote]

If I swing a 2 meters long sword in real life, I can hit mutiple people with it but the one I focus on will get the most damage. You aren't a genius on physics obviously.

[quote]Amioran wrote...

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Again. Another flaw in the game that I have pointed out. You will deny this though because you're a Biodrone.[/quote]

And so do you really think that "logic"? Sure, base attacks should do the same damage as abilities. Let's make also mage do the same damage via staff attacks as they do with spells.

OMG, but do you really understand what the hell you are saying?

[/quote]

Twisting words and quoting out of context. You say the 2 handed warrior's basic attacks suck because he's doing AoE attacks but you accept that slaming a sword into the ground will do higher damage and pass this off as "animation" or perhaps that's the "awesome" button.

[quote]Amioran wrote...

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
A) Doesn't matter. You were obviously educated in it and when I corrected you on your spelling, you shouldn't have have made the same mistake again. [/quote]

Damn, it was a joke, a pun, in fact I corrected it in the edit with a smile apposedly for either you to understand it.

[/quote]

Probably after I corrected you yeah.

[quote]Amioran wrote...

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Well you obviously don't know what truth is nor do you know what the word idiot means.[/quote]

Good. Another example of your supreme logic. "You don't know how a car works so you cannot understand nothing about painting". It makes a lot of sense, as all the rest.

[/quote]

Yet another example that you can't argue.

[quote]Amioran wrote...

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Yes, how the game works is an opinion. If I say "The warrior class is rubbish and should be different" that's an opinion and if you say "The warrior class is the best class and was better than Origins warrior class" that's an opinion. Before you reply, look up the definition of opinion.[/quote]

A) No, how the game works is not opinion. It simply how it works.
Your concept of "rubbish" is derived from the fact that you dont' either grasp what's really happening, how gameplay mechanics should be concepted or what's behind them, and you don't either grasp simple logic.
C) The warrior class is much better now, because it is more balanced in the context of the other choices.
D) The "solutiions" you propose are hilarious at best. It would be fun if you had a little programming ability trying to put them on a game, so you will finally see the idiocy of the things you say. Sadly this is not happening so you can fantasize on being a genius how much you want.[/quote]

[/quote]

A) Yes. It's an opinion. If I say how the game works is rubbish. It's opinion. In your own words, you are implying I should like it because you do.
No. My concept of rubbish is that I've played all three classes and can see how the warrior is the weakest.
C) An opinion. It's much worst now. Seems you don't know what you're going on about.
D) Actually. It's already happened. I've modded games and if I could mod Dragon Age 2, increasing the damage a warrior does would be added. The best part is how you dismiss my arguments without providing evidence against them.

You're an idiot. Prove me wrong. See how that works?

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 03 mai 2011 - 03:07 .

[kcman5]

Sorry but I get amused very easily when people say that 2 handed Warriors lack in damage output. Rogues should be "IT" on single target dps period. But when it comes to multiple mobs, hands down the 2 Handed warrior is the KING..Period. If you are not getting the desired results, then you are 1) Speccing wrong 2) Not playing your PC right.
I play on Nightmare and spec incto cleave, blood frenzy and sacrificial frenzy and there is no other toon ingame, that can compare to it's damage..period. I actually put my party on "Hold", while this menace destroys packs of mobs, including Cotorie Rogues, assassins and the like, resulting in all being dead. Yes a Rogue may bring "ONE" down faster, but multiple; noway.

 P.S. And STRENGTH is the key modifier for basic attacks..Pay no attention to dps; pay attention to the max damage that you do by just adding one point of strength( for it effects damage and hit) to it and see how much damage it does go up. Btw my strength is at 80 atm.

Modifié par kcman5, 03 mai 2011 - 04:24 .

[blothulfur]

Good point kc that's another thing warriors should be able to take down the bosses not just the endless waves of "awesome" filler combat, the hero stuck to clean up duties while party members kill the big bad doesn't exactly endear Hawke the kirkwall janitor to me.

And the batting stance on a two hander looks effing terrible.

Modifié par blothulfur, 03 mai 2011 - 04:26 .

[kcman5]

blothulfur wrote...

Good point kc that's another thing warriors should be able to take down the bosses not just the endless waves of "awesome" filler combat, the hero stuck to clean up duties while party members kill the big bad doesn't exactly endear Hawke the kirkwall janitor to me.

And the batting stance on a two hander looks effing terrible.

 Not actually the case either..My tank died while fighting the Hight Dragon. so guess who was stuck on the big bad boy while an archer and mage were there for support duty. It actually worked faster, for the dang tank, got 1 shotted via a Mighty Blow..What can I say, she wanted to stick close to me, at her peril..lol

Modifié par kcman5, 03 mai 2011 - 04:31 .

[blothulfur]

Oh so two handers are better on bosses than rogues then, damn I bloody missed that.

[kcman5]

/sigh

[Amioran]

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
How is it different? You don't even give defense for your arguments. You just present them as fact without proof.[/quote]

So do you think that saying "don't judge everything in the full game from the demo" and "the prologue is not different from the demo" contradicts one another?

I really don't get sometime if you are serious or not.


[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
I provided three in-game quotes. You ignored all of them. You've already contradicted yourself here, so let's move on.[/quote]

A) I replied to all of them.
The "quotes" you posted were in reality only one, you just "divided" it for your convenience.
C) That quote contradicted your point completely.

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Another contradiction. Let's move on because this will be a waste of time.[/quote]

There's no contradiction in what I said, it is only that it seems you cannot comprehend even basic concepts.
If you say a stupid thing you demonstrate you are stupid in that moment. There's no contradiction in this simple logic.

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Sure. That's the worst excuse I've ever heard. Spelling something wrong is a joke. Last time you said English wasn't your native language.[/quote]

OMG. The first one was an error. The use of the same error later was a joke. Didn't the phrase "(edit: cannot stand, it is better now?)" ring a bell for you? No? Well, I'm not surprised.

Anyway think what you want.

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Yet another contradiction. I won't waste time here.[/quote]

Yes all contradictions in your fantasy world made of wasted time that you have in abundance. Ah, the irony...

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote..
Thread please.[/quote]

It was sticked many months ago, now no more. I will certainly not lose time searching it for you. If you care about it then you have hands.

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Wrong. You said a 2 handed warrior doesn't do high damage on one enemy, abilities do, so should basic attacks. If I hit the enemy in front of me, he should take more damage than the enemies around me because I'm focusing on him.[/quote]

An ability has spike damage. Do you get the difference from sustained and spike damage? You cannot use an ability all the time. So, in your logic, attacks that can be used all the time (and either with much more speed) should have the same damage of an ability that can get used only sparsely... Oh, well... great concept.

As for the doing more damage on the enemy in front of you, this actually could make sense but it's not as easy as you think, firstly because if you go for "realism" then the damage changes in conformity on how the hit is directed, secondly because there are infinite parameters that alter the damage, arc and type of impact.

In an rpg that's not focused on "realistic" gameplay you should go for a contextualized gameplay, or nothing will work. Concepts are more important than "realism" because: A) the gameplay is not done specifically with that intention, the mechanics are too difficult to emulate in the setting, it would only become a mess.

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
If I swing a 2 meters long sword in real life, I can hit mutiple people with it but the one I focus on will get the most damage. You aren't a genius on physics obviously.[/quote]

You talk of "realism" and you are the first one that simplify. It depends on the arc of the hit, it depends on the way the blade impacts, it depends on the angle the target is impacted.

More, the momentum of the swing will probably do more harm to the LAST enemy on the group if the resistance doesn't block the impetus. Again, physics, and, again, as you see, a lot of things to take care of.

Gameplay mechanics and "realism" rarely go nice togheter. There are game that focus on "realism" but they have all another different context. 

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Twisting words and quoting out of context. You say the 2 handed warrior's basic attacks suck because he's doing AoE attacks but you accept that slaming a sword into the ground will do higher damage[/quote]

No, I accept that an ability does more damage than a base attack because it can be used only in spikes.
Another not so difficult concept to grasp, isn't it?

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Probably after I corrected you yeah.
[/quote]

Now I will let you see clearly what I mean when I say you don't clearly comprehend fully nor what you write, nor what you read.

You said I mistaken a thing for the SECOND time (implying so that I wrote it TWO TIMES, isn't it?). I replied that the SECOND TIME was a joke.

Now you reply that it wasn't because you CORRECTED me, but the fact that I say that it was a joke working on a correction already implied a second time to work on it, and the fact that you say that the joke is not a joke because you corrected me is totally inappropriate. In little words: the joke was based on your correcting so how can this same correction nullify it?

See what I mean when I tell you that you don't comprehend fully?

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
A) Yes. It's an opinion. If I say how the game works is rubbish. It's opinion. In your own words, you are implying I should like it because you do.
No. My concept of rubbish is that I've played all three classes and can see how the warrior is the weakest.
C) An opinion. It's much worst now. Seems you don't know what you're going on about.
D) Actually. It's already happened. I've modded games and if I could mod Dragon Age 2, increasing the damage a warrior does would be added. The best part is how you dismiss my arguments without providing evidence against them.

You're an idiot. Prove me wrong. See how that works?

[/quote]

A) I just replied to your sentence "how the game works is not opinion". In this sense, no it isn't. But, as you always do you just turn everything in another thing just to have a point.
A shame that what you say is wrong. More you base your "judgment" of the class on arbitrary limitations imposed by yourself. You don't want to use abilities to increase the damage on attacks but you are perfectly fine with mage's spells, and so on. Your "comparisions" don't make sense.
C) It's not just an "opinion". When you judge something you have to judge it in a context, not separated from the same as you do.
D) You can do it. Let's see how it will work. Want to make a bet? You will completely unbalance the game in favor of warriors if you give them the same damage as a single target based class on their base attacks.

As for proving you wrong on the fact that I'm an idiot that's really easy. Just read my concepts and how I reason, everybody can notice I'm not.

Modifié par Amioran, 03 mai 2011 - 04:47 .

[Cstriker01]

The reason you play a 2 Hand warrior has nothing to do with numbers, stats, or logic.

You play a 2 hand warrior because you enjoy swinging a mass of steel with brawn fueled by pure testosterone and beer. Warrior doesn't weave spells from a distance to stay safe, a warrior doesn't dance in the shadows (or dance at all) poking people in the back, and a warrior doesn't whine, he just gets more angry.

The key is to stop looking at the numbers and start smashing faces with steel and brawn. That is the warriors way...also, arelex's guides too...

[Wafodie]

TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL

[Eternal Phoenix]

Wafodie wrote...

TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL

Reported. Enjoy the ban.

[Eternal Phoenix]

[quote]kcman5 wrote...

Sorry but I get amused very easily when people say that 2 handed Warriors lack in damage output. Rogues should be "IT" on single target dps period. But when it comes to multiple mobs, hands down the 2 Handed warrior is the KING..Period. If you are not getting the desired results, then you are 1) Speccing wrong 2) Not playing your PC right.
I play on Nightmare and spec incto cleave, blood frenzy and sacrificial frenzy and there is no other toon ingame, that can compare to it's damage..period. I actually put my party on "Hold", while this menace destroys packs of mobs, including Cotorie Rogues, assassins and the like, resulting in all being dead. Yes a Rogue may bring "ONE" down faster, but multiple; noway.

 P.S. And STRENGTH is the key modifier for basic attacks..Pay no attention to dps; pay attention to the max damage that you do by just adding one point of strength( for it effects damage and hit) to it and see how much damage it does go up. Btw my strength is at 80 atm.[/quote]

Then you must be kniting. Have you even leveled up in consitution? A rogue attacks faster and fells enemies quicker, so yes, they do bring down multiple enemies.

[quote]Amioran wrote...

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
How is it different? You don't even give defense for your arguments. You just present them as fact without proof.[/quote]

So do you think that saying "don't judge everything in the full game from the demo" and "the prologue is not different from the demo" contradicts one another?

I really don't get sometime if you are serious or not.

[/quote]

Nice work changing my words and their words. They said many things had been changed from the demo and all of it remained the same. They said the prologue would be different and was it? No. So if you want to believe them, go ahead. It just shows that you are gullible when all others see that nothing has changed.

[quote]Amioran wrote...

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
I provided three in-game quotes. You ignored all of them. You've already contradicted yourself here, so let's move on.[/quote]

A) I replied to all of them.
The "quotes" you posted were in reality only one, you just "divided" it for your convenience.
C) That quote contradicted your point completely.

[/quote]

A) No you didn't. You denied them all. So if I say your B and C are wrong, is that me replying? Very well, if we work by that logic...

Wrong.
C) Wrong.

/Done.

[quote]Amioran wrote...

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Another contradiction. Let's move on because this will be a waste of time.[/quote]

There's no contradiction in what I said, it is only that it seems you cannot comprehend even basic concepts.
If you say a stupid thing you demonstrate you are stupid in that moment. There's no contradiction in this simple logic.

[/quote]

Yep, there is a contradiction but just like you, I won't point this out or even use any evidence. I'll just say it's wrong and leave you to try and disprove me. Let's move on. You contradicted yourself again.

[quote]Amioran wrote...

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Sure. That's the worst excuse I've ever heard. Spelling something wrong is a joke. Last time you said English wasn't your native language.[/quote]

OMG. The first one was an error. The use of the same error later was a joke. Didn't the phrase "(edit: cannot stand, it is better now?)" ring a bell for you? No? Well, I'm not surprised.

[/quote]

Spelling support as sopport isn't a joke when you've been corrected. It only proves how much of a fool you are to make the same mistake again when you were corrected. If acting like an uneducated fool is a joke where you come from, then I'm glad I don't live there.

[quote]Amioran wrote...

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Yet another contradiction. I won't waste time here.[/quote]

Yes all contradictions in your fantasy world made of wasted time that you have in abundance. Ah, the irony...

[/quote]

You didn't prove me wrong. So my point stands. Ironic indeed.

[quote]Amioran wrote...

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote..
Thread please.[/quote]

It was sticked many months ago, now no more. I will certainly not lose time searching it for you. If you care about it then you have hands.

[/quote]

Thread please.

[quote]Amioran wrote...

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Wrong. You said a 2 handed warrior doesn't do high damage on one enemy, abilities do, so should basic attacks. If I hit the enemy in front of me, he should take more damage than the enemies around me because I'm focusing on him.[/quote]

An ability has spike damage. Do you get the difference from sustained and spike damage? You cannot use an ability all the time. So, in your logic, attacks that can be used all the time (and either with much more speed) should have the same damage of an ability that can get used only sparsely... Oh, well... great concept.

As for the doing more damage on the enemy in front of you, this actually could make sense but it's not as easy as you think, firstly because if you go for "realism" then the damage changes in conformity on how the hit is directed, secondly because there are infinite parameters that alter the damage, arc and type of impact.

In an rpg that's not focused on "realistic" gameplay you should go for a contextualized gameplay, or nothing will work. Concepts are more important than "realism" because: A) the gameplay is not done specifically with that intention, the mechanics are too difficult to emulate in the setting, it would only become a mess.

[/quote]

I never said the basic attacks should have the same damage as an ability. I said they should be higher. Stop spewing lies from your mouth. Give me the page number where I said that. Thought so, I never said. The fact that you use lies now prove that you know you're wrong.

Actually, the enemy in front of you taking more damage is as easy as you think. That enemy takes the most damage, while the enemies around him take damage but not as much. That's how it worked for the mighty blow if I recall. Nearer enemies suffered more damage. They could easily have made basic attacks hurt the enemy you focus on.

[quote]Amioran wrote...

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
If I swing a 2 meters long sword in real life, I can hit mutiple people with it but the one I focus on will get the most damage. You aren't a genius on physics obviously.[/quote]

You talk of "realism" and you are the first one that simplify. It depends on the arc of the hit, it depends on the way the blade impacts, it depends on the angle the target is impacted.

More, the momentum of the swing will probably do more harm to the LAST enemy on the group if the resistance doesn't block the impetus. Again, physics, and, again, as you see, a lot of things to take care of.

Gameplay mechanics and "realism" rarely go nice togheter. There are game that focus on "realism" but they have all another different context. 

[/quote]

It doesn't matter how the swing is done or how it looks like. When you attack as your 2 handed, he focuses on one enemy. This enemy should take the most damage.

[quote]Amioran wrote...
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Twisting words and quoting out of context. You say the 2 handed warrior's basic attacks suck because he's doing AoE attacks but you accept that slaming a sword into the ground will do higher damage[/quote]

No, I accept that an ability does more damage than a base attack because it can be used only in spikes.
Another not so difficult concept to grasp, isn't it?

[/quote]

Again. Another quote out of context. I never claimed basic attacks should be stronger than abilities. Only that they should be stronger than what they are right now.

[quote]Amioran wrote...

[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
Probably after I corrected you yeah.
[/quote]

Now I will let you see clearly what I mean when I say you don't clearly comprehend fully nor what you write, nor what you read.

You said I mistaken a thing for the SECOND time (implying so that I wrote it TWO TIMES, isn't it?). I replied that the SECOND TIME was a joke.

Now you reply that it wasn't because you CORRECTED me, but the fact that I say that it was a joke working on a correction already implied a second time to work on it, and the fact that you say that the joke is not a joke because you corrected me is totally inappropriate. In little words: the joke was based on your correcting so how can this same correction nullify it?

[/quote]

Saying something is a joke when you get called out on it doesn't support your case. I could make tons of spelling errors and then call it a joke. No one is going to laugh. It wasn't a joke and you know it.

[quote]Amioran wrote...
[quote]Elton John is dead wrote...
A) Yes. It's an opinion. If I say how the game works is rubbish. It's opinion. In your own words, you are implying I should like it because you do.
No. My concept of rubbish is that I've played all three classes and can see how the warrior is the weakest.
C) An opinion. It's much worst now. Seems you don't know what you're going on about.
D) Actually. It's already happened. I've modded games and if I could mod Dragon Age 2, increasing the damage a warrior does would be added. The best part is how you dismiss my arguments without providing evidence against them.

You're an idiot. Prove me wrong. See how that works?

[/quote]

A) I just replied to your sentence "how the game works is not opinion". In this sense, no it isn't. But, as you always do you just turn everything in another thing just to have a point.
A shame that what you say is wrong. More you base your "judgment" of the class on arbitrary limitations imposed by yourself. You don't want to use abilities to increase the damage on attacks but you are perfectly fine with mage's spells, and so on. Your "comparisions" don't make sense.
C) It's not just an "opinion". When you judge something you have to judge it in a context, not separated from the same as you do.
D) You can do it. Let's see how it will work. Want to make a bet? You will completely unbalance the game in favor of warriors if you give them the same damage as a single target based class on their base attacks.

As for proving you wrong on the fact that I'm an idiot that's really easy. Just read my concepts and how I reason, everybody can notice I'm not.
[/quote]

A) You use an opinion to support your argument.
Actually. I do use abilities to increase attack. That still doesn't stop the warrior class from having poor damage with basic attacks and most of the damage increasing abilities die down after a while.
C) I've judged the three classes and I conclude the warrior is the weakest of them. That's an opinion just as your opinion is that warriors are the best.
D) Hardly. I'll make it so that all classes have strengthes and weaknesses.

E) Another opinion. Others may think you're an idiot.

[Eternal Phoenix]

erggggfd wrote...

I happen to agree with Elton here. Don't bash me for agreeing with him but he's right. Warriors are meant to do more damage than rogues and mages. Sword and shield warriors are meant to be the best defense but have some offense whereas 2 handed warriors are meant to be 100% offensive, doing the most damage which is why they hold their weapon with two hands, sacrificing a shield and defense to do more damage. The Area of Effect damage that the 2 handed warrior does is just a bonus, it shouldn't mean the 2 handed warrior should be weak, a heavy maul should do more damage than daggers especially against armored foes.

So for that. I agree. Though it wasn't really a problem for me. The 2 handed warrior was still powerful and is even faster than it was in Origins which was better. Though I wouldn't mind an improvement in more powerful attacks. I liked how grunt enemies got knocked down with some of the attacks but a 2 handed warrior should've been able to knock down boss enemies just as a rogue is able to critical hit them several times killing them with at least two to three hits. If they're going to make the 2 handed warrior weaker than before then they should at least provide a bonus where boss enemies can be hit down since grunts aren't really much of a threat anyway.

Exactly my point. Shame people won't listen to you.

Grunts aren't ever a threat. 2 handed warriors can kill them with one hit. Yet when it comes to bosses - 2 handed warriors can't even damage them because they have resistance to slash, pierce and bludgeon damage. Rogues slay them within 2 hits with their critical strikes whereas mages exploit their elemental weaknesses. So a 2 handed should at least be able to knock down a boss type character but they can't even do that.

Slaying crowds of grunts is nothing. Rogues and mages do that quick anyway and destroy bosses quicker. 2 handed warriors don't which means classes aren't balanced.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 04 mai 2011 - 03:39 .

[Wafodie]

Elton John is dead wrote...

Wafodie wrote...

TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL

Reported. Enjoy the ban.

Huh? TROLL-copter goes TROLL TROLL TROLL, your a troll

[Eternal Phoenix]

Here's your 2 handed with your vanguard spec and other abilities activated:



Still rubbish damage.

Here's the rogue:



Here's the mage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rj1v1wkFRUM&feature=related

Guess which one is stronger.

Modifié par Elton John is dead, 04 mai 2011 - 03:57 .

[Eternal Phoenix]

Wafodie wrote...

Elton John is dead wrote...

Wafodie wrote...

TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL TROLL

Reported. Enjoy the ban.

Huh? TROLL-copter goes TROLL TROLL TROLL, your a troll

And you're just a ******.

[Wafodie]

^ Would rather be a ****** who can listen and admit defeat against others who obviously have enough evidence to bury you rather than a troll with such a high, obnoxious belief in his/her own opinion that he's blind to what other people are saying. T to the ROLL= TROLL