129 réponses à ce sujet

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Ramirez Wolfen wrote...

There is nothing wrong with buying a game used. I buy all my games used nowadays, except for titles I'm really into, like BF3 (when it's released), DW7 (lots of people don't like it, but I've always been a fan), ME3 (when it's released), and the upcoming Saints Row 3 (which I am REALLY excited for).

I buy all my games used because I can't afford them new, as I don't make enough money (sniping raccoons, groundhogs, and other little critters doesn't earn you much).

All this crap about how buying a game used is cheating the devs is pure BS.

I don't think anyone really believes that buying games used is cheating the devs. I've worked in the game industry, and I don't even think that. The argument here is primarily whether it's ethically acceptable for devs to include day 1 new game DLC to try to produce some optional revenue from used game sales. I think it's a great idea, a compromise that allows people to resell games they don't like or are finished with, but that also allows games to maintain a "long tail."

I do, however, think it's smart to see if there's a way you can buy the game from the company at a comprable price. If the game is $17 at Gamestop and $20 on Steam, I'd buy it off Steam. I don't think it's wrong to buy it from Gamestop in that case, but it supports future game production better if you use Steam.

I buy a lot of games used... mostly JRPGs, I'll admit, and half the time the associated studio has already been shut down (SACNOTH! /cry) If it weren't for the used game market a lot of older titles would be orphaned and unavailable. But the ability for still solvent companies to gain a little optional profit from the long tail is a valuable one.

[Eudaemonium]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I buy a lot of games used... mostly JRPGs, I'll admit, and half the time the associated studio has already been shut down (SACNOTH! /cry) If it weren't for the used game market a lot of older titles would be orphaned and unavailable. But the ability for still solvent companies to gain a little optional profit from the long tail is a valuable one.

Sacnoth! How we mourn you!

[Elite Midget]

CurseofNight wrote...

I just brought Risen an hour ago - used - with no booklet or cover. So what? I got the game. Its not scratched. Who cares if its not in a shiny and new case?

Than you have no right to complain when you lose out on DLC like Cerberus Network or Day 1 Stuff that requires a new copy.

[CroGamer002]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

I do, however, think it's smart to see if there's a way you can buy the game from the company at a comprable price. If the game is $17 at Gamestop and $20 on Steam, I'd buy it off Steam. I don't think it's wrong to buy it from Gamestop in that case, but it supports future game production better if you use Steam.

off-topic

If Gamespot sells ME3 for 5$ on release day while on Steam it's 100$ and not a single dime goes to EA/Bioware, I would buy it from Steam since Gamespot is evil.

/off-topic

[ReallyRue]

With the except of ME2 and DA2, every game I buy is pre-owned, although my brother used the free DLC thingy in the ME2 box. When I got another copy later (pre-owned) I was able to use the code for the Cerberus Network too.

[MidnightRaith]

@ Elite Midget, he doesn't have to complain because Cerberus Network is still offered as dlc. At least over xbox live anyway

[Elite Midget]

Which he has to buy if he wants it. If he got it new he would get it for free.

Still, I enjoy Bioware doing the Cerberus Network thing. 10+ Dollar free DLC if you buy new. Really punishes those that buy Used on the First Week for 5 Dollars less.

[MidnightRaith]

If he did buy it then. Honestly, I doubt that devs are actually punishing us that bought games used. I got both games for the price of one so that means I have a sixty dollar buffer to buy dlc and I did. Essentially, I got both games cheap while still supporting the devs. Both sides win, I just did it at a cheaper rate and after a relatively short wait

[MidnightRaith]

I would buy games straight from xbox live but I simply don't have the space for it or the money to buy a bigger hard drive. I've never been a fan of gamestop but for those of us that can't afford to buy games new simply don't have another option.

[PrinceLionheart]

atheelogos wrote...

Buying used is cheating the devs out of their hard earned money imo....

How is that any different than buying other things like Cars or Text Books used. 

I always see this argument brought up, and although I believe in supporting devs, it's a stupid argument none the less.

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

This thread has some good discussion. Thanks again for the response, and know I'm not intentionally trying to get under your skin or anything. 

Ok, yeah I kinda see where you are coming from now.  EA has done some shady things in the past, but overall i think an initiative like this can help both sides.  The used market can stay in business, and the video game companies can still make a bit of money off the used sales.

Look at it this way...

Game company sells game to GameStop for $30.   That's $30 profit for them.
GameStop sells the game for $60.  That's $30 profit for them.
You sell game back to Gamestop for $15.  They now have only $15.
BUT they sell that game now for $40 used.  They now have $45.  That's $15 dollars more than the game company.  Why not let them have an extra $10 on that used copy?

How does it help GamesStop? People can make the choice to buy new or used, they still buy it from GameStop, GameStop still profits either way, but the game company does too.  They both win.  You might say the used consumer loses, but again... It's optional DLC that does not truly impact the game either way.  Not being able to visit the Normandy Crash Site and pick up a bunch of dog tags? No big deal.  Some extra weapons and armor that I've yet to actually use in any of my playthroughs other than the Cerberus Arc Projector (which now im thinking isn't all that great lately... kinda more like the missile launcher with homing missiles)? No big deal. Zaeed is an ok character, but if it was just him and he wasnt' free, I probably wouldn't buy him (Kasumi on the other hand is awesomesauce with ramen!)

Modifié par AbsolutGrndZer0, 26 avril 2011 - 06:16 .

[DJ Nihil]

I am extremely late to the ME party, and didn't play either game till they dropped in price new to $20. I had heard about the first one and found a new unopened copy of the Platinum 2 disc, started playing it around March '10 and then found a new copy of ME2 at the same store and it had just dropped to $20.

Having said that, I don't pay extra for Xbox live, as I don't have much money or time to play games (Full time job and college classes), so the price of that isn't justified, but maybe once a year, and I would not pay the extra $10 to get the online features for ME 1 or 2, so buying new after a price drop is my only option. The quality of used games from Gamestop is not what it used to be these days.

Modifié par DJ Nihil, 26 avril 2011 - 06:14 .

[AbsolutGrndZer0]

DJ Nihil wrote...

I am extremely late to the ME party, and didn't play either game till they dropped in price new to $20. I had heard about the first one and found a new unopened copy of the Platinum 2 disc, started playing it around March '10 and then found a new copy of ME2 at the same store and it had just dropped to $20.

Having said that, I don't pay extra for Xbox live, as I don't have much money or time to play games (Full time job and college classes), so the price of that isn't justified, but maybe once a year, and I would not pay the extra $10 to get the online features for ME 1 or 2, so buying new after a price drop is my only option. The quality of used games from Gamestop is not what it used to be these days.

Well, you can still buy DLC with a Silver account.  If you choose not to buy the DLC, that's your choice.  As for the price drop, I hear you there. There's only a few games I must have at launch, most I do wait for a price drop, or even get used.  Project $10 will not stop me from buying used on the occasions that I do.

[Minister of Sound]

PrinceLionheart wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

Buying used is cheating the devs out of their hard earned money imo....

How is that any different than buying other things like Cars or Text Books used. 

I always see this argument brought up, and although I believe in supporting devs, it's a stupid argument none the less.

Exactly. The games are sold to stores, who then sell it to you, like any other product on the market.

[MidnightRaith]

^ Personally, I think that if there was an effecient way for the original producers to make money on the above mentioned used items, then they would implement it. In an ideal society where people would make money on everything they produced on all fronts, then this would be the norm. I know that this isn't an ideal society, but still, I don't think we should condemn devs for wanting to make money.

[Hathur]

PC gamer... used games are less relevant to me.. however..

As for the issue of used games for consoles, I actually support Bioware / EA with their efforts... they get screwed out of huge amounts of revenue / profit that instead goes straight to Gamestop (or their equivalent)... I'd rather that money went to the developer and publisher to ensure more games with bigger budgets in the future.... Gamestop getting rich off their backs does not serve gamers in any shape... letting the devs / publishers get rich instead benefits gamers in the long run (more games with more funding).

Modifié par Hathur, 26 avril 2011 - 10:16 .

[MidnightRaith]

http://www.1up.com/n...rhammer-failure

According to Louse, more than $300 million has been spent on the game so far.

That is the alleged budget of The Old Republic. If that's true, then I'm thinking that Bioware and EA have a great reason to attempt to get us to buy DLC from them directly.

[Abispa]

A developer has EVERY right to charge as much for a product as fans are willing to pay for it, just as fans have EVERY right to NOT BUY games they think are too much money. And developers are under no obligation to help the re-sale market sell the same experience for less money. The sense of entitlement among video game buyers is amazing. Nobody is forcing gamers to buy anything.

[MidnightRaith]

Abispa wrote...

A developer has EVERY right to charge as much for a product as fans are willing to pay for it, just as fans have EVERY right to NOT BUY games they think are too much money. And developers are under no obligation to help the re-sale market sell the same experience for less money. The sense of entitlement among video game buyers is amazing. Nobody is forcing gamers to buy anything.

That is exactly my point. I chose to buy used and I chose to support the devs with an alternate means ie, the DLC. My arguments are directed at those who were arguing that EA is somehow punishing us for buying used. They aren't, they're just trying to make things easier on themselves financially. Just as I do when I take advantage of the used game industry. Project $10 is merely away for both sides to benefit.

[2kgnsiika]

ROD525 wrote...

Most of these games aren't worth 60.00 thats why I wait and buy used. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were bought new though.I support publishers who make good long games.
I just picked up Dead Space 2 used for 32.00, 8 hours later...done. Full price my ass.

hear! hear!

I agree totally. You either have to have a lot of excess money or pretty low standards if you're willing to pay $/€60 for most games.

[Homey C-Dawg]

Abispa wrote...

The sense of entitlement among video game buyers is amazing. Nobody is forcing gamers to buy anything.

I'm not understanding this comment. Personally, I have a strong sense of entitlement toward anything that I paid for and own, regardless of whether it's a video game, a movie, a car, a book, or a chicken sandwitch.

If I want to take a bite of that sandwitch and sell the rest of it for 25% less, then I don't see why the deli is entitled to any of that money. They already got the $3 for it that they planned on getting in the first place.

[MidnightRaith]

Homey C-Dawg wrote...

Abispa wrote...

The sense of entitlement among video game buyers is amazing. Nobody is forcing gamers to buy anything.

I'm not understanding this comment. Personally, I have a strong sense of entitlement toward anything that I paid for and own, regardless of whether it's a video game, a movie, a car, a book, or a chicken sandwitch.

If I want to take a bite of that sandwitch and sell the rest of it for 25% less, then I don't see why the deli is entitled to any of that money. They already got the $3 for it that they planned on getting in the first place.

That's not how it works though. You're assuming that Bioware is not losing out on profit when we buy games used. They do. When I went out to buy ME, I saw several brand, spanking new copies of both games at sixty dollars. I didn't buy those though, I bought the half-priced used ones. Essencially it's like this: There are two new copies of ME. Person A buys the game new. He plays it, gets all the enjoyment out of it as he can, then he sells it back to the store. Person B walks in. She sees the new game, then the price cut used one right next to it. She chooses the used one and the new copy is still sitting one the shelf.

What this means is that EA/Bioware released a number of new games, however, not all of these new copies are sold. Most are but the devs are losing profit because not all of their new copies are sold and multiple people are essencially using the same copy at a lower price. The devs don't even see any of this money. So, how do they attempt to make up for this profit? By releasing optional DLC packs that many players actually want to have because they enjoyed the original product.

They initiated Project $10 because they can and because it's smart. Nothing about it is unethical, punishing or greedy. If you want a reason, Bioware has to find a way to make up that $300 million budget they spent on what is probably going to be an awesome MMO in The Old Republic.

[Lunatic LK47]

2kgnsiika wrote...

ROD525 wrote...

Most of these games aren't worth 60.00 thats why I wait and buy used. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were bought new though.I support publishers who make good long games.
I just picked up Dead Space 2 used for 32.00, 8 hours later...done. Full price my ass.

hear! hear!

I agree totally. You either have to have a lot of excess money or pretty low standards if you're willing to pay $/€60 for most games.

This. The lowest standard ever made would be Force Unleashed 2 ($60 for a four hour game? Might as well charge us $100 for a movie ticket while we're at it.)

[Vez04]

Lunatic LK47 wrote...

2kgnsiika wrote...

ROD525 wrote...

Most of these games aren't worth 60.00 thats why I wait and buy used. Mass Effect 1 and 2 were bought new though.I support publishers who make good long games.
I just picked up Dead Space 2 used for 32.00, 8 hours later...done. Full price my ass.

hear! hear!

I agree totally. You either have to have a lot of excess money or pretty low standards if you're willing to pay $/€60 for most games.

This. The lowest standard ever made would be Force Unleashed 2 ($60 for a four hour game? Might as well charge us $100 for a movie ticket while we're at it.)

This.