147 réponses à ce sujet

[Phaedon]

Why the caps? Well.


 Okay, you can criticize ME2's lack of great squad armour selection by using the comfortable term of 'dumbing down', but there was a huge problem with ME2's squad, and it will remain in ME3.

In ME1, your squad is comprised of: Humans, asari, krogan, turians and quarians, with the asari being able to use human armour. All in all, we have 4 types of armour.

In ME2, your squad is comprised of: Humans, asari, krogan, turians, quarians, drell, salarians and geth. The asari could be able to use human armour, and perhaps drell as well, even though their anatomy is slightly different than the human one. All in all, you have 6-7 types of armour.

Had Bioware gone with ME1's system, the inventory would have been very complicated. 

Should Bioware have used ME1's core system with non-visual upgrades, and without I-X versions, the inventory would still be clutterred, at least somewhat. Not to mention the fact that loot would almost be impossible. You would have to find armour of 7 different species!

Now, with Mass Effect 2's system, squaddies have a personalized look, but they don't really have anything else. Sure, their appearance is not identical, but so what? Squad gear customization is an important RPG element.

Now, there are four solutions that I can think of.

Solution A: Go with ME2's system
+ Armour carries the character's personality
+ It's cheap.

- Squad customization almost absent
- Armour can technically not carry any stats.

Solution B: Go with ME2's system, but with more appearances (around 5)
+ Armour carries some of the character's personality
+ It's relatively cheap.
+ Can have some stats

-Squad customization still not amazingly rich

Solution C: Apply the Shepard wardrobe system for all squadmates
+ Armour can still carry the character's personality
+ Give customization to the people!
+ Has statistics

- It will cost

Solution D: Have 3-5 armour sets for each squadmate, which are unlocked as the game progresses. The player can change parts of the armour.
+ Armour carries character's personality
+ Great(er) customization than the previous solution
+Statistics

- It will cost. A lot. Imagine 5 armour sets per character. Madness.

Vote in the poll or suggest other solutions.

Modifié par Phaedon, 27 avril 2011 - 05:44 .

[Welsh Inferno]

I'd be happy with B.. I like characters having their own unique look about them. Customizing them would be nice but as you say it would cost a lot and also a lot of time would be spent away from other things.

[Phaedon]

I would personally go with a B-C-D hybrid.

Have some appearances that are unlocked as you advance in the game and have them customized as much as Shepard.

[Lvl20DM]

I'm hoping that we can find upgrades/mods to armor. It would be similar to ME1's mod system, though maybe less options with each option having a strong impact. I don't care if we don't have many different choices of appearance. I thought the armor gave a unique look to the characters in ME2. On the other hand, some armor made no sense for hazardous environments, and I would like ME3 to give hazard suits for the squad-member, or design their armor with hazardous terrain in mind (Garrus and Tali, for example).

[Phaedon]

Lvl20DM wrote...

I'm hoping that we can find upgrades/mods to armor. It would be similar to ME1's mod system, though maybe less options with each option having a strong impact. I don't care if we don't have many different choices of appearance. I thought the armor gave a unique look to the characters in ME2. On the other hand, some armor made no sense for hazardous environments, and I would like ME3 to give hazard suits for the squad-member, or design their armor with hazardous terrain in mind (Garrus and Tali, for example).

If you stay with one or two appearances, and bring back ME1's upgrade system, why not eradicate the worst element thing from it and actually make upgrades visible? Just like the same is happenning with weapon mods.

Visible armour upgrades would be pretty nice, though for me, the customization would compensate for them.

Modifié par Phaedon, 26 avril 2011 - 12:26 .

[RainyDayLover]

From what I've read on these forums, I don't think the complaints are about the lack of an inventory system and I too don't have a problem with having unique appearances. In fact, it adds to the experience and I hope they keep that system in ME2.

The main thing people seem to be complaining about is the lack of proper armor, which I wholeheartedly agree with.

[Phaedon]

RainyDayLover wrote...

From what I've read on these forums, I don't think the complaints are about the lack of an inventory system and I too don't have a problem with having unique appearances. In fact, it adds to the experience and I hope they keep that system in ME2.

The main thing people seem to be complaining about is the lack of proper armor, which I wholeheartedly agree with.

Eh, I wish that the complaints were restricted to the proper armour part. As far as I know, they are not.

[Lvl20DM]

Having the mods have a visible effect on armor would be pretty cool, and probably not all that difficult to implement. Some kind of visible shield generator or medigel tubing would be a kick.

[RainyDayLover]

Phaedon wrote...

RainyDayLover wrote...

From what I've read on these forums, I don't think the complaints are about the lack of an inventory system and I too don't have a problem with having unique appearances. In fact, it adds to the experience and I hope they keep that system in ME2.

The main thing people seem to be complaining about is the lack of proper armor, which I wholeheartedly agree with.

Eh, I wish that the complaints were restricted to the proper armour part. As far as I know, they are not.

Hmm...I guess I haven't been here long enough then.

I don't know how anyone could want that tedious inventory system back.

Anyways, I really like Solution B. Every squad member should have 2-3 outfits depending on the situation. One casual outfit while on the Normandy, one for combat during normal environment, and another one for hazardous environment (this one could potentially come with a helmet).

Modifié par RainyDayLover, 26 avril 2011 - 12:35 .

[100k]

Its simple:

There are three kinds of armours in ME3.

-Light armour, which increases the NPCs speed by 15%
-Medium armour, which decreases the NPCs cool down by 15%
-Heavy armour, which increases the NPCs shields by 15%

This should apply to all armours in the game, no matter what the design of the suit is.

Now, when you go into stores, you have clothing divided up by race. Turian/Human/Asari/Quarian/Drell/Synthetic/Krogan...etc etc. Within each races clothing styles, there are a minimum of three options for purchase; Light, Medium, and Heavy armours of a unique make, depending on the store. As a default, no two sets will look the same. Ever. Because Light Turian Phoenix armour and Light Asari Phoenix armour (examples) are designed differently by different in-game companies.

(As extra options, the player can choose to customize the armours in the game to look similar if they want, but it will NEVER be the default. Garrus will always look unique and iconic in whatever armour he wears, because it will be designed around him, and him alone. Same for the others.)

With armour stats in an incredibly simple and organized fashion, the devs can concentrate almost entirely on the aesthetics of the costumes. They player will NEVER be required to buy new armour if they don't want to, because the default NPC costume will always have the same stats as those from any other set. The aesthetics, however, will be left competely up to the player.

If I want Liara to wear something else, without rolling through major stat comparisons, I can now do that, because I know exactly what type of armour looks a certain way, and how it will effect her basic game play.

Things like extra visors, helmets, ammo packs, belts, knives, wrist guards, etc etc would all be purely aesthetic elements that the player could buy at the stores in the game. This would allow Bioware to put in as much as they wanted, without worrying about stats again. The player would never need to buy these things if they don't want to, as they serve no other purpose than to look cool, and add variety.

Problems solved:

-Money hoarding.
-Stats have been completely streamlined. Forever.
-Customization will be bigger than ever, without the problem of stats hampering your decisions.
-Balance between people who want more options, and people who don't really care.

So, it would be like a combination of C & D.

(Important to note that this applies only to the NPCs)

(Also important to note that armor is not part of the "loot. It is exclusively bought at stores. The player will never have to cycle through dozens of sets of the same armor. Every armor in the game is unique in appearance, and there is only one of each type that can be bought in the store)

And if Bioware is a bit rushed for time, then they should just set up an official contest on the forums. Bioware needs. 50 types of armor for the game. Therefore, anyone interested can submit their design choices. The best will be put into the final product.

It always gets me that it takes Bioware six months to hand out three alternate costumes to their fans, but a PC user can create their own alternate outfits in little under a week.

Modifié par 100k, 26 avril 2011 - 12:50 .

[habitat 67]

It's the simple work/rewards system which I'm a sucker for.
I miss foraging for hours to be happily rewarded with this:


I
do understand that with additional races and classes, rendering
individual armors for everyone would be a logistical nightmare, but wow
do I miss that special Krogan (and Turian) armor.

I guess I'd go with C or D?

[tommythetomcat]

All i know is they need to rethink the ME2 armor designs for companions...

Nothing like seeing someone walk around with no protection in a vacuum or an electrical storm. I get that they want certain characters to have a "look" but I'd be nice if the look was practical and not 2 belt straps over boobs.

[Phaedon]

100k wrote...

Its simple:

There are three kinds of armours in ME3.

-Light armour, which increases the NPCs speed by 15%
-Medium armour, which decreases the NPCs cool down by 15%
-Heavy armour, which increases the NPCs shields by 15%

This should apply to all armours in the game, no matter what the design of the suit is.

Now, when you go into stores, you have clothing divided up by race. Turian/Human/Asari/Quarian/Drell/Synthetic/Krogan...etc etc. Within each races clothing styles, there are a minimum of three options for purchase; Light, Medium, and Heavy armours of a unique make, depending on the store. As a default, no two sets will look the same. Ever. Because Light Turian Phoenix armour and Light Asari Phoenix armour (examples) are designed differently by different in-game companies.

(As extra options, the player can choose to customize the armours in the game to look similar if they want, but it will NEVER be the default. Garrus will always look unique and iconic in whatever armour he wears, because it will be designed around him, and him alone. Same for the others.)

With armour stats in an incredibly simple and organized fashion, the devs can concentrate almost entirely on the aesthetics of the costumes. They player will NEVER be required to buy new armour if they don't want to, because the default NPC costume will always have the same stats as those from any other set. The aesthetics, however, will be left competely up to the player.

If I want Liara to wear something else, without rolling through major stat comparisons, I can now do that, because I know exactly what type of armour looks a certain way, and how it will effect her basic game play.

Things like extra visors, helmets, ammo packs, belts, knives, wrist guards, etc etc would all be purely aesthetic elements that the player could buy at the stores in the game. This would allow Bioware to put in as much as they wanted, without worrying about stats again. The player would never need to buy these things if they don't want to, as they serve no other purpose than to look cool, and add variety.

Problems solved:

-Money hoarding.
-Stats have been completely streamlined. Forever.
-Customization will be bigger than ever, without the problem of stats hampering your decisions.
-Balance between people who want more options, and people who don't really care.

So, it would be like a combination of C & D.

(Important to note that this applies only to the NPCs)

The problem with this theory are that:
-Loot will probably be difficult to implement correctly.
-3x7=21 different sets of armours, and these are just for one style. If you wish to have, for example 5 styles, 5x3x7=105, and each squadmate must have their own armour.

tommythetomcat wrote...

All i know is they need to rethink the ME2 armor designs for companions... 

Nothing like seeing someone walk around with no protection in a vacuum or an electrical storm. I get that they want certain characters to have a "look" but I'd be nice if the look was practical and not 2 belt straps over boobs.

I understand, but that is an entirely different debate.

Modifié par Phaedon, 26 avril 2011 - 12:42 .

[Lvl20DM]

RainyDayLover wrote...


Hmm...I guess I haven't been here long enough then.

I don't know how anyone could want that tedious inventory system back.

Anyways, I really like Solution B. Every squad member should have 2-3 outfits depending on the situation. One casual outfit while on the Normandy, one for combat during normal environment, and another one for hazardous environment (this one could potentially come with a helmet).

This would be great, really. I would have few complaints with this set-up. I'd still like some stat-impacting elements (upgrades, mods, etc.).

[Lunatic LK47]

100k wrote...

Its simple:

There are three kinds of armours in ME3.

-Light armour, which increases the NPCs speed by 15%
-Medium armour, which decreases the NPCs cool down by 15%
-Heavy armour, which increases the NPCs shields by 15%

This should apply to all armours in the game, no matter what the design of the suit is.

Now, when you go into stores, you have clothing divided up by race. Turian/Human/Asari/Quarian/Drell/Synthetic/Krogan...etc etc. Within each races clothing styles, there are a minimum of three options for purchase; Light, Medium, and Heavy armours of a unique make, depending on the store. As a default, no two sets will look the same. Ever. Because Light Turian Phoenix armour and Light Asari Phoenix armour (examples) are designed differently by different in-game companies.

Problem is ME1's armor was completely randomized, and for those that did want to buy that special armor, they had to spend hours doing the Save/Reload exploit just to get that Collosus Armor. In my case, I took Medium every single time because I found Light and Heavy to be FUGLY. If ME3 used ME1's system, getting those special armors is another ****ing nightmare. Just something to consider about.

With armour stats in an incredibly simple and organized fashion, the devs can concentrate almost entirely on the aesthetics of the costumes. They player will NEVER be required to buy new armour if they don't want to, because the default NPC costume will always have the same stats as those from any other set. The aesthetics, however, will be left competely up to the player.

Fine with this being optional.

If I want Liara to wear something else, without rolling through major stat comparisons, I can now do that, because I know exactly what type of armour looks a certain way, and how it will effect her basic game play.

Things like extra visors, helmets, ammo packs, belts, knives, wrist guards, etc etc would all be purely aesthetic elements that the player could buy at the stores in the game. This would allow Bioware to put in as much as they wanted, without worrying about stats again. The player would never need to buy these things if they don't want to, as they serve no other purpose than to look cool, and add variety.

Problems solved:

-Money hoarding.
-Stats have been completely streamlined. Forever.
-Customization will be bigger than ever, without the problem of stats hampering your decisions.
-Balance between people who want more options, and people who don't really care.

So, it would be like a combination of C & D.

(Important to note that this applies only to the NPCs)

I'll be in agreement with this, if the armor is not randomized.

[Razagon]

What about ME2 style with alt apperance but with the ability to modify all squadmates like Shepard, once you buy the component you unlock it for everyone. Sorry if mentioned, my concentration is little down.

[Phaedon]

Sure, it's a nice system, but it's logistically impossible to implement.

Unless I am missing something.

[Lunatic LK47]

Phaedon wrote...

The problem with this theory are that:
-Loot will probably be difficult to implement correctly.

Probably is a MAJOR understatement. ME1 was already a logistical nightmare.

-3x7=21 different sets of armours, and these are just for one style. If you wish to have, for example 5 styles, 5x3x7=105, and each squadmate must have their own armour.

This.

[100k]

Phaedon wrote...

100k wrote...

Its simple:

There are three kinds of armours in ME3.

-Light armour, which increases the NPCs speed by 15%
-Medium armour, which decreases the NPCs cool down by 15%
-Heavy armour, which increases the NPCs shields by 15%

This should apply to all armours in the game, no matter what the design of the suit is.

Now, when you go into stores, you have clothing divided up by race. Turian/Human/Asari/Quarian/Drell/Synthetic/Krogan...etc etc. Within each races clothing styles, there are a minimum of three options for purchase; Light, Medium, and Heavy armours of a unique make, depending on the store. As a default, no two sets will look the same. Ever. Because Light Turian Phoenix armour and Light Asari Phoenix armour (examples) are designed differently by different in-game companies.

(As extra options, the player can choose to customize the armours in the game to look similar if they want, but it will NEVER be the default. Garrus will always look unique and iconic in whatever armour he wears, because it will be designed around him, and him alone. Same for the others.)

With armour stats in an incredibly simple and organized fashion, the devs can concentrate almost entirely on the aesthetics of the costumes. They player will NEVER be required to buy new armour if they don't want to, because the default NPC costume will always have the same stats as those from any other set. The aesthetics, however, will be left competely up to the player.

If I want Liara to wear something else, without rolling through major stat comparisons, I can now do that, because I know exactly what type of armour looks a certain way, and how it will effect her basic game play.

Things like extra visors, helmets, ammo packs, belts, knives, wrist guards, etc etc would all be purely aesthetic elements that the player could buy at the stores in the game. This would allow Bioware to put in as much as they wanted, without worrying about stats again. The player would never need to buy these things if they don't want to, as they serve no other purpose than to look cool, and add variety.

Problems solved:

-Money hoarding.
-Stats have been completely streamlined. Forever.
-Customization will be bigger than ever, without the problem of stats hampering your decisions.
-Balance between people who want more options, and people who don't really care.

So, it would be like a combination of C & D.

(Important to note that this applies only to the NPCs)

The problem with this theory are that:
-Loot will probably be difficult to implement correctly.
-3x7=21 different sets of armours, and these are just for one style. If you wish to have, for example 5 styles, 5x3x7=105, and each squadmate must have their own armour.

Pefectly understandable.

However, armor would never be part of the "loot" Shepard pics up in the field. It can only be deliberately bought.

[Phaedon]

Razagon wrote...

What about ME2 style with alt apperance but with the ability to modify all squadmates like Shepard, once you buy the component you unlock it for everyone. Sorry if mentioned, my concentration is little down.

I...actually forgot to include this in the OP.

Technically, every component you buy would change to fit to the other squadmates.

For example, titanium helmet would appear different to Shepard, Garrus, the VS or Wrex.
The only problem I can think is the fact that there will be some complications with the shared armour system. We may need to return to a cumbersome ME1-style inventory if that is the case.

Modifié par Phaedon, 26 avril 2011 - 12:49 .

[Razagon]

Yes that was my thought exactly.

[Phaedon]

100k wrote...
Pefectly understandable. 

However, armor would never be part of the "loot" Shepard pics up in the field. It can only be deliberately bought.

I like your suggestion, and I'd like to see the problem with it fixed, but I can't think of anything right now.

[Razagon]

What shared armor system? If it's ME2 then it's personilased with alt app. It wouldn't be bad if crew had one outfit on ship and one combat orientated.

[Phaedon]

Phaedon wrote...

Razagon wrote...

What about ME2 style with alt apperance but with the ability to modify all squadmates like Shepard, once you buy the component you unlock it for everyone. Sorry if mentioned, my concentration is little down.

I...actually forgot to include this in the OP.

Technically, every component you buy would change to fit to the other squadmates.

For example, titanium helmet would appear different to Shepard, Garrus, the VS or Wrex.
The only problem I can think is the fact that there will be some complications with the shared armour system. We may need to return to a cumbersome ME1-style inventory if that is the case.

Razagon wrote...

Yes that was my thought exactly.

Now, to fix this, there are two solutions:

1. Have multiple squadmates be able to use the same item at the same time (same as ME2 weapons)
2. Come up with a smart system that allows you to reassign items easily and efficiently.

Just a question for everyone, did you like the amount of stats that came with Shepard armour's components?

[Lunatic LK47]

Phaedon wrote...

100k wrote...
Pefectly understandable. 

However, armor would never be part of the "loot" Shepard pics up in the field. It can only be deliberately bought.

I like your suggestion, and I'd like to see the problem with it fixed, but I can't think of anything right now.

I'll say just keep ME2/KOTOR 1's market system (i.e. You get this item from Store X on EVERY PLAYTHROUGH) This will prevent us from having to do the "Save/Reload" exploit for 2 hours.