332 réponses à ce sujet

[NKKKK]

Lol Massive Effect, this isn't the correct place for right winged religious talking

[neal sonntag]

They should just have different outfits for when they get out of the normandy. like shepard, casual outfit with some skin and then the armor doesnt have to be like that.

[TomY90]

Elite Midget wrote...

What do you mean slimed down? My Biotic was wearing much heavier armor in ME2 than what he could wear in ME1. The civie clothes isn't anything new and was always for Normandy time. It was a good system.

Civie cloths on Normandy and armor for missions. It makes sense.

The solider heavy armour which statistically was the most popular class one reason was the heavy armour that no other class could have and if you compare ME1 Heavy Armour to ME2 armour you see that the new generation is more like the medium armour than the heavy armour from ME1

below is ME1 heavy armour 

http://www.gamerdna....der-shepard.jpg

below this is the ME3 armour (from what I have heard at least and you will see there is a big difference between the two (sorry if that is fan art but its very much similar to the ME2 armour so you will still tell the difference between them)

http://windows7theme...wallpaper-1.jpg

Modifié par TomY90, 26 avril 2011 - 01:43 .

[Elite Midget]

So they took Light, Medium, and Heavy from ME1 and made it all even out for a general armor set for ME2? That's understandable. What isn't understandable is the removal of armor period for anyone but Shepard and Garrus with Grunt, Zaeed, and Legion pushing it. Everyone else, besides Tali, was woefully inappropiate for combat and their non-armor status goes completely against what was established for the ME Universe via ME1.

[Thrombin]

centauri2002 wrote...

@Thrombin: Plate armour isn't going to hold up against gunfire, is it? I think you'll find modern soldiers have combat attire and casual attire. Military personnel have quite a number of different uniforms, in fact.

And that certainly doesn't translate to Mass Effect. When your barrier or shield goes down, you want a back up to stop those bullets. Why rely on only one form of defence? If armour really is that unnecessary, why should Shepard even bother with it?

ETA: Also, the problem wasn't only with combat but hostile environments in general. The squad go to planets that are toxic or hazardous to be exposed to and yet some characters only wear small breathers. 

Plate Armour might not stop a bullet dead on but it would probably help against shrapnel or nearby mortar explosions. It might even protect against glancing bullets. If you made it out of modern materials like titanium then I bet it would stop most bullets too.

The point is, just because it might offer better protection it is also impractical for widespread use. So it makes sense that not everyone is going to be kitted out in the strongest stuff available. However, just because it is form-fitting and doesn't have heavy metal plates all over it doesn't mean that it doesn't have a protective effect. I can easily imagine Miranda's armour to be twice as strong as any body armour currently employed by soldiers today. It's all about the material. Not to mention the medi-gel applicators that are presumably embedded in all of their outfits (even Jack's).

The beauty of modern science is in the miniaturization you know

Modifié par Thrombin, 26 avril 2011 - 02:59 .

[Centauri2002]

Thrombin wrote...


Plate Armour might not stop a bullet dead on but it would probably help against shrapnel or nearby mortar explosions. It might even protect against glancing bullets. If you made it out of modern materials like titanium then I bet it would stop most bullets too.

The point is, just because it might offer better protection it is also impractical for widespread use. So it makes sense that not everyone is going to be kitted out in the strongest stuff available. However, just because it is form-fitting and doesn't have heavy metal plates all over it doesn't mean that it doesn't have a protective effect. I can easily imagine Miranda's armour to be twice as strong as any body armour currently employed by soldiers today. It's all about the material. Not to mention the medi-gel applicators that are presumably embedded in all of their outfits (even Jack's).

The beauty of modern science is in the miniaturization you know

I could maybe accept that at a bit of a stretch, but the environmental hazards are a different matter entirely. Jack's not going to survive long on a planet where the sun is so strong it boils your skin, for example. 

[Moiaussi]

In ME1 it was made clear that armor does have the ability to reduce damage taken and that heavier armor is better at doing so. They gave us a realistic, fairly consistant universe that was a bit refreshing from a lot of the other muck out there, and for many of us made up for other shortcommings such as the ME1 combat engine.

And we still got to see people in outside of their heavy gear on shipboard, on the Citadel, etc. Best of both worlds.

But I suppose we have entered an era where actor's egos and/or writer assumptions of audience stupidity are so great that Iron Man has to open his face plate every 2 minutes even in combat just so audiences won't somehow forget it is Tony Stark inside (note this happens even in the animated series). Innane.

[MGIII]

I don't care. Never bothered me. Most of the science presented in Mass Effect are handwaves or oversimplifications that sound intelligent (I suppose) but are actually poorly represented or downright impossible according to classical physics, but people accept those no problem.

But god forbid some cleavage exists in space. And all people who don't instantly cry foul over it are morons, neanderthals, or some version thereof that are easily appeased by some virtual breasts and ass, apparently.

[Jzadek72]

I don't mind it if it makes sense for the character, like Jack, but for Miranda, it seems only for sexual purposes. Unarmoured works for biotic characters, though, but they all need better clothes in a vacuum.

[Centauri2002]

MGIII wrote...

I don't care. Never bothered me. Most of the science presented in Mass Effect are handwaves or oversimplifications that sound intelligent (I suppose) but are actually poorly represented or downright impossible according to classical physics, but people accept those no problem.

But god forbid some cleavage exists in space. And all people who don't instantly cry foul over it are morons, neanderthals, or some version thereof that are easily appeased by some virtual breasts and ass, apparently.

I think there's always going to be people who are on polar opposites of this argument, but I believe the majority of people either a) don't care, or stand somewhere in the middle.

I'd be lying if I didn't find myself appreciating some of the female forms in Mass Effect. I've found myself staring at the asari dancers for a minute or two when I walk into Afterlife. But that doesn't mean I don't want a little common sense in my game either. The squad can wear what they want in their own time but one would hope they'd care about their own personal safety than their fashion sense when in hostile environments. 

Besides, a woman (and men too, I suppose, if you like that kind of thing ) can look damn sexy in armour as well. Shepard pulls it off. 

Modifié par centauri2002, 26 avril 2011 - 03:36 .

[Elite Midget]

I'm surprised there are this many that support Shepard having to wear full armor but are a-okay with Miranda running into a vacuum in high heels and her cleveage hanging out everywhere.

[Thrombin]

centauri2002 wrote...
I could maybe accept that at a bit of a stretch, but the environmental hazards are a different matter entirely. Jack's not going to survive long on a planet where the sun is so strong it boils your skin, for example. 

I agree with you, on that one.

The only half-plausible explanation would be that your shield can be modified to protect against environmental effects but then as soon as someone knocks your shields down in space or an airless planet you would immediately undergo explosive decompression. Not a pretty sight

It doesn't really bother me that much, to be honest. In fact, I actually get annoyed by the fact that Shepard has to wear a helmet in space (even though it's obvious he would have to). Helmets obscure his face during talking scenes and it's a bit offputting. In fact I never wear any of the extra DLC armours because you can't remove the helmet. Sometimes logic is just annoying!

Modifié par Thrombin, 26 avril 2011 - 03:45 .

[Centauri2002]

Thrombin wrote...

It doesn't really bother me that much, to be honest. In fact, I actually get annoyed by the fact that Shepard has to wear a helmet in space (even though it's obvious he would have to). Helmets obscure his face during talking scenes and it's a bit offputting. In fact I never wear any of the extra DLC armours because you can't remove the helmet. Sometimes logic is just annoying!

Okay, yeah, I kind of agree on that one. I don't mind Shepard wearing her helmet in space and hazardous atmospheres but I always choose to go without one in other situations because I like to see her expressions when she's talking to people. It's silly if I think about it because all someone has to do is aim for her head to take her down. >.>

Still, if BioWare went with the whole collapsible helmet idea, we could get around that too. 

[KenKenpachi]

didymos1120 wrote...

TomY90 wrote...

I understand where everyone is coming from but you got to remember in science fiction anything is possible like a breathing mask when in space in real life you would get laughed out the door with such an idea but in science fiction you can get away with it and works for mass effect because one most people like to see characters face when talking so its logical in a game to do so.

No, you really can't get away with it in science fiction.  Flouting reality is of course expected to some degree, but this sort of thing has never been acceptable in anything with any pretensions of being serious SF (unless of course it's actually explained semi-plausibly, which ME2 doesn't bother with at all), which ME definitely has. As far as the "see their face" thing goes: there's this property called "transparency".  See Joker in the prologue.

I take it you never Watched Star Wars or Star Trek have you?

[Elite Midget]

Pretty sure in Star Trek the women wore the same uniforms as the men. Star Wars it went like this.

Humans women wore appopiate armor.

Aliens didn't and have a huge and messed up alien fetish fanbase.

[KenKenpachi]

Elite Midget wrote...

Pretty sure in Star Trek the women wore the same uniforms as the men. Star Wars it went like this.

Humans women wore appopiate armor.

Aliens didn't and have a huge and messed up alien fetish fanbase.

Yes as this is armor.

http://img.dailymail...410_468x638.jpg

http://images.wikia....idala_jewel.jpg

http://members.shaw....dme_amidala.jpg

Or this http://cy06.unblog.f...7/marajade2.jpg

Or these

http://3.bp.blogspot...0/JainaSolo.png

http://fc07.devianta...y_Irishmile.jpg

Thats some proper Armor there.

And ah yes Star Trek

I'm sure velcro will protect you from the cold of space, or sharp wooden sticks.

[Elite Midget]

To be fair Star Trek was made a long time ago and so was Star Wars. What they had established was 'mordern' for their times but completely outdated with what we know now. Also, Leia and Padme aren't warriors and use their words/influence more than actually getting down and dirty. Nearly every encounter Leia had to fight in wasen't of her chooseing and the few times she starts a fight she wears some armor.

A better example would have been the more modern Stargate series since they do wear armor no matter the race, gender, or orientation and they wore no armor when they weren't going on mission.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 26 avril 2011 - 04:34 .

[jamesp81]

Malanek999 wrote...

I don't want to get caught up in a discussion about game mechanics in regards to this. They are there for gameplay purposes. As for the future, if such shield technology exists and doesn't retard movement, I think the use of bulky armour is actually significantly more unrealistic. There are many concepts you could pick apart in the ME world, this isn't a particularly bad one.

My understanding is that shields only work against objects moving at high velocity.  They don't provide environment protection; thus the need for a helmet.

[jamesp81]

Elite Midget wrote...

massive_effect wrote...

This topic isn't about Science, either. I'm not allowed to have an opinion that says "God"?

My Topic so I can make the rules. Bringing up God only ends up starting arguements thus I don't want it in here nor do I want anything that involves supporting or demeaning any Religions. Thus make your own Topic if you want to talk about that highly controversal issue because I don't want those arguement here.

This is a public forum.  If you don't want someone saying something, don't start the thread.  As long as the rules of the forum are not violated, you're not in any position to dictate anything.

[Rheia]

Personally, I prefer ME2 style squad appearances over ME1. While I understand people who are speaking against it, for me visual aethetics are more important than 'realism' in sci-fi fantasy setting.

If anything, what bothers me is inconsistency. If my squadmates can look good while obliterating their enemies, why is my Shepard stuck in heavy suit? It makes sence for a soldier spec, sure. But an adept or ilfiltrator should at least have an option for a lighter variety of armor.

Modifié par Rheia, 26 avril 2011 - 05:08 .

[Moiaussi]

In star trek there isn't any armour that is effective against phasers or disruptors. They are disintigration weapons. So noone wears armour and that is consistant.

In Star Wars, Trooper wear armour because the empire can afford it. The rebels cannot. Jedi seem to rely on the force to the level of relying on plot armour, but they fell because their egos got bigger than their common sense

[KenKenpachi]

Elite Midget wrote...

To be fair Star Trek was made a long time ago and so was Star Wars. What they had established was 'mordern' for their times but completely outdated with what we know now. Also, Leia and Padme aren't warriors and use their words/influence more than actually getting down and dirty. Nearly every encounter Leia had to fight in wasen't of her chooseing and the few times she starts a fight she wears some armor.

A better example would have been the more modern Stargate series since they do wear armor no matter the race, gender, or orientation and they wore no armor when they weren't going on mission.

Now thats just BS. They had Armor in Star Wars, Stormtroopers, Rebel Troopers, Mandalorians, CORSEC, ReBSpecOps, Tie Fighter Pilots, Clone Trooper, Naboo Royal Guard, etc. Star Trek has issues besides that. And thats also why I put up two Jedi, and a Merc. Point is you have fems who didn't wear armor and weren't fan service. Besides the utility of armor in Star Gate is questionable. I have yet aside from main players survive ANY weapon hit dispite wearing armor, seen plenty of Jaffa riddiled like swiss cheese, seen plenty of humans die from energy blasts. And those armors in both case were 100% useless in a survival capcity. Hell that armor for both sides was only in the show to make the people (more so the women) look more "Badass" as metal unless VERY Thick (min of 14mm)  won't stop a bullet, and when Kevlar was designed I highly doubt they had "stoping Plasma weapons" on the list. Hell and the SAME Show had Russian Spetznas troopers running around in the Blue and white striped T-shirts they are equiped with and no armor.

And as to any crap about that, I can show you Women in Star wars in Porper armor, or even garments that provide limited armor protection from laser or heat based weaponary. I don't like the ME:2 designs, but that doesn't mean I want to see women walking around in some sort of heavy diving suit.

I like ME:1's Armor, but Kasumi as from the Star Wars example, may have had an alloy fiber compoisit armor. So I can support stuff like that, however Jack, Miri, and Ole Blue, were all three not just fan service, but tasteless fan service. There is also no known facotrs on the endurance of a Qurian suit. In fact it may be as well or better sealed than a Suit out of NASA.


As an Edit the rebels DID have armor.

http://images.wikia....8/Wraith_Op.jpg

http://images.wikia....7/73/Charge.jpg

http://images.wikia....ASFsoldiers.jpg

And they US military is working on Composit armor. Weight and tech limitations and PR is whats in the way of it atm however.

Modifié par KenKenpachi, 26 avril 2011 - 05:40 .

[Nimander]

To be a pedant and give 'in universe' reasons why it might be possible: Shields obviously can prevent air loss, as it happens on the Normandy in ME2, both in the cockpit at the intro scene and at the end, shielding breaches in the hull from losing air.

A shielding interface that creates a 'buffer' of good air between your skin and the atmosphere and/or buffers out the bad air would work okay, with the way such things work in ME2. It could be a secondary generator linked to a miniaturized air source; if /all/ it has to do is prevent the exchange of air. The same principles used in heat sinks could be used to prevent heat (unlike the popular conception, the main issue with space is cooking, not getting cold ... unless you're there for hours and hours, long enough for your body to radiate all your heat to freeze you and you aren't in the direct sunlight of a star with no atmosphere to shield you).

However. This would not work on places like Haestromm. And I'm not sure how it'd work with bullets; a minor shield like that would be punctured by any bullet. Unless of course it's /designed/ to buckle and immediately reassert itself rather than even trying to break it.

I'm basically saying that yeah, I think things may be a bit too sexualized on both genders, but screaming about realism in a science fiction property is odd. Everyone has different levels of verisimilitude, and honestly I just explained things to my satisfaction to convince me it /could/ be handwaved. I'd love a codex entry on low-weight space suits though.

[Elite Midget]

jamesp81 wrote...

This is a public forum.  If you don't want someone saying something, don't start the thread.  As long as the rules of the forum are not violated, you're not in any position to dictate anything.

Public Forums have rules. Starting a debate about Religion is not only off Topic but will only incite a Flame War. So don't give me that 'public forums' excuse when you know what they want to do will blow up in their faces and anger those that moderate the forum. Thus I don't want that in my Topic and if it's brought up again I will report said person, or persons, for Off-Topic Posting or the such that fits their offense.

Besides, it's my Topic. If you want to talk about Off-Topic things than you need to either go elsewhere or make a new Topic because I wont have any of that here.