@lacecraft: Nobody liked the lack of dialogue. This is Bioware's fault for underestimating how damn chatty we all were.
Look at it this way: You dealt with the garbage in their pasts, so there's nothing holding them back. They can move forward with you with no regrets.
ME2: Build a team.
ME3: Be a team.
New guys permitted, of course.
Old teammates vs new characters
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Guest_laecraft_*
, avril 26 2011 01:57
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#27
Posté 26 avril 2011 - 03:27
gosimmons
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I'm ok with some new characters, but I hope to see as much of the old crew that we can (considering they're already developed and well liked). But at the very least I want the old characters to get good roles and substantial dialogue, whether or not they return as squaddies.
#28
Posté 26 avril 2011 - 03:29
LadyJaneGrey
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AdmiralCheez wrote...
@lacecraft: Nobody liked the lack of dialogue. This is Bioware's fault for underestimating how damn chatty we all were.
Hope Bioware addresses this in ME3. Don't give us interesting characters who keep telling Shepard to budge off; talk to me, dammit.
#29
Posté 26 avril 2011 - 03:32
thatguy212
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The way the squad in mass effect 3 should be is 2/3 old squadmembers and 1/3 new squadmembers
#30
Guest_laecraft_*
Posté 26 avril 2011 - 03:32
Guest_laecraft_*
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Makes sense, I suppose, since the entire ME2 was about building a team, essentially. So it would be odd if it all goes to waste, much as I'd wish it to.
One thing for certain - even if we get new characters, there will be no time to deal with issues in their lives. I can't imagine Shepard agreeing to go to a remote system to resolve teammates' issues while Reapers are tearing down Earth and burning the rest of the galaxy. So personal quests, should they occur, have to be tightly interwoven into the grand battle, and any new relationships will have to develop right on the battlefield.
One thing for certain - even if we get new characters, there will be no time to deal with issues in their lives. I can't imagine Shepard agreeing to go to a remote system to resolve teammates' issues while Reapers are tearing down Earth and burning the rest of the galaxy. So personal quests, should they occur, have to be tightly interwoven into the grand battle, and any new relationships will have to develop right on the battlefield.
#31
Posté 26 avril 2011 - 03:36
ObserverStatus
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+1crimzontearz wrote...
Liara, Mordin, Legion, Tali, Garrus, Wrex
everyone else can go away thanks
replace Tali with Zaeed, and that's my list.
#32
Posté 26 avril 2011 - 03:36
FlyinElk212
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laecraft wrote...
I don't know, it just feels like all character archs are complete, and they have nowhere else to develop, and the relationship archs you have with them are pinnacled at getting their loyalty, so what else is there to see? I like excitement, uncertainly, rocky relationship, and the struggle to win your teammates devotion.
I would argue that all of the characters arcs were completed in ME1 as well, but new situations arose in ME2 with each character that lead them to further character arcs, further interactions, and further development with their relationship with Shepard. What's to say they can't do that with ME3?
Example: you've gotten Miranda to open up as a person, trust other people's capabilities, and cater to her true feelings instead of just feeling like a valuable tool for Cerberus. Where is she going to take this newfound freedom in ME3? Will she go anti-Cerberus crazy, even going as far as to have an obsession with ending them, ala Jack? Will she continue to defend Cerberus to the death, even when they're hunting down Shepard and potentially getting in their way of stopping the Reapers (thus making her a good friend-foil to Shepard)?
New character opportunities can rise with the flick of a writer's magic pen. There are also plenty of situations set up in ME2 that could lead to further development in ME3 (in Miranda's example, Oriana may be used as a bargaining chip for Miranda betraying Shepard. More character potential, more development!)
Modifié par FlyinElk212, 26 avril 2011 - 03:38 .
#33
Posté 26 avril 2011 - 03:41
LadyJaneGrey
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@OP If you really don't want to see many squadmates return, you could engineer a worst playthrough run of the suicide mission. ;^)
#34
Posté 26 avril 2011 - 03:41
88mphSlayer
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the only time a character arc is done is when they're dead...
as for new squaddies i don't mind, i just really don't want another "gather a bunch of dudes/recruit/solve their daddy issues" again... ME2 was so compartmentalized that if they did it that way again it'd feel like deja vu than interesting
as for new squaddies i don't mind, i just really don't want another "gather a bunch of dudes/recruit/solve their daddy issues" again... ME2 was so compartmentalized that if they did it that way again it'd feel like deja vu than interesting
#35
Guest_laecraft_*
Posté 26 avril 2011 - 03:45
Guest_laecraft_*
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LadyJaneGrey wrote...
@OP If you really don't want to see many squadmates return, you could engineer a worst playthrough run of the suicide mission. ;^)
...I could never bring myself to do such a cruel thing.
Besides, it's not going to bring me new content. And my wish is not for the old teammates to be gone, but for the new ones to appear. These two things are simply too tightly interwoven, because the development resources are not infinite. It is a fine balancing act.
#36
Posté 26 avril 2011 - 03:54
lovgreno
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You know, I think the developers would not have made Wrex killable if they knew how popular he would become.
#37
Posté 26 avril 2011 - 03:57
AngryFrozenWater
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I think the ME saga is just as much about Shepard as his companions. If in each part all are changed then that is lost and I would consider them nothing more than cannon fodder.
Modifié par AngryFrozenWater, 26 avril 2011 - 03:59 .
#38
Posté 26 avril 2011 - 03:59
Pwener2313
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New characters are just that.... new. The people we recruit now are just going to be found and simpathized with enough for them to tag along. ME2's squad was chosen, fought for and earned. They were, and are, the best.
#39
Posté 26 avril 2011 - 04:00
Pwener2313
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lovgreno wrote...
You know, I think the developers would not have made Wrex killable if they knew how popular he would become.
No worries, less then 20% of the forumites know who Wreav even is. I wouldn't have if I hadn't joined the forums.
#40
Guest_laecraft_*
Posté 26 avril 2011 - 04:02
Guest_laecraft_*
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FlyinElk212 wrote...
laecraft wrote...
I don't know, it just feels like all character archs are complete, and they have nowhere else to develop, and the relationship archs you have with them are pinnacled at getting their loyalty, so what else is there to see? I like excitement, uncertainly, rocky relationship, and the struggle to win your teammates devotion.
New character opportunities can rise with the flick of a writer's magic pen. There are also plenty of situations set up in ME2 that could lead to further development in ME3 (in Miranda's example, Oriana may be used as a bargaining chip for Miranda betraying Shepard. More character potential, more development!)
I've heard that if you destroy the base, and Miranda is with you, she resigns. Does anyone know if TIM tells her, "But what of your sister, Miranda? We know where she is." And if he doesn't say it, why not? Such a convenient way to control her.
Sure there could be new situations, but for the arch between them and Shepard to develop further, their loyalty to him would have to be reset to zero. (Like it happened with VS.) Or do you mean that their loyalty would have to be tested? I'm not holding my breath, then. I've seen many times how characters choose their own goals over Shepard, although it had more to do with their cameo status. "Can't join you, commander,
#41
Posté 26 avril 2011 - 04:08
Ramirez Wolfen
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I don't mind new characters as long as we keep the old ones.
#42
Posté 26 avril 2011 - 04:13
NoSoyBueno
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I just spent the entirety of Mass Effect 2 recruiting people. I do not want that to have been a colossal waste of time. We already have every single possible combat role filled, and more squadmates than most people care to keep track of. I refuse to recruit new squadmates for ME3, but unfortunately I suspect that 'James Sanders' will be forced on me.
-NSB
-NSB
Modifié par NoSoyBueno, 26 avril 2011 - 04:16 .
#43
Posté 26 avril 2011 - 04:19
FlyinElk212
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NoSoyBueno wrote...
I just spent the entirety of Mass Effect 2 recruiting people. I do not want that to have been a colossal waste of time. We already have every single possible combat role filled, and more squadmates than most people care to keep track of. I refuse to recruit new squadmates for ME3, but unfortunately I suspect that 'James Sanders' will be forced on me.
-NSB
Agreeeeeeeeeeeeeed!What are you talking about? You are SO soy bueno!!!
#44
Posté 26 avril 2011 - 04:20
PMC65
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A little bit of both would be fine. Especially since 2 of my 4 Sheps lost part of their squad in the SM.
Sorry Tali (twice), Thane (twice), Samara, Garrus, Jacob, Jack, Grunt, Miranda and Legion. Yep, we will need a new pool of recruits on those two games.
Sorry Tali (twice), Thane (twice), Samara, Garrus, Jacob, Jack, Grunt, Miranda and Legion. Yep, we will need a new pool of recruits on those two games.
#46
Posté 26 avril 2011 - 04:22
Pwener2313
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ME3 won't have recruitment missions. It said that immediately after leaving Earth, we head to alien homeworlds to find allies. ME3's new squad will be introduced at the start just like in ME1.
#47
Posté 26 avril 2011 - 04:25
AngelicMachinery
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Pwener2313 wrote...
ME3 won't have recruitment missions. It said that immediately after leaving Earth, we head to alien homeworlds to find allies. ME3's new squad will be introduced at the start just like in ME1.
Read the bold part carefully.
#48
Posté 26 avril 2011 - 04:26
FlyinElk212
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PMC65 wrote...
A little bit of both would be fine. Especially since 2 of my 4 Sheps lost part of their squad in the SM.
Sorry Tali (twice), Thane (twice), Samara, Garrus, Jacob, Jack, Grunt, Miranda and Legion. Yep, we will need a new pool of recruits on those two games.
Yeah, that's true. I do wish Bioware would be a little more cutthroat about it though: "Oh, you killed 10 of your squaddies? Great, you suck, have fun playing ME3 with 4 total squad members (2 from ME1, and the 2 required to live through ME2)."
Either that to encourage saving more crewmembers, or at least installing new squadmates that have established lore within the past two games who can't be killed, like Anderson, Daro'Xen, or Feron. Not n00bs who leave you wondering where the heck they were in the past two games.
#49
Posté 26 avril 2011 - 04:27
Pwener2313
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What am I suppose to see exactly? The GI team went to the salarian homeworld after Earth, what does that tell us? we're going to the Quarian homaworld too.
#50
Guest_laecraft_*
Posté 26 avril 2011 - 04:27
Guest_laecraft_*
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88mphSlayer wrote...
the only time a character arc is done is when they're dead...
I agree. Character development can always continue. Let us not consider it, then, since Shepard has no influence over it, or can influence it only indirectly. Let's consider only relationship between teammates and Shepard. Suppose the "loyal" value between Shepard and Miranda is "zero" at the beginning of ME2. With doing her quest, you can set it to "one" at the end of the game. That's as far as it goes, although I would prefer it to go through 1, 2, 3, 4, and depend on interactions as well as her personal quest. Better yet if it were "frienship" value rather than "loyalty" one. In any case, at the end of ME2, you've got it maxed out. End of arch progress.
For the relationship to have any progress in ME3, that value has to be less than max. Something has to happen to reduce it, then, since a player would always strive to raise it, not to reduce it. Otherwise, you've got a perfectly loyal teammate at your side, like Garrus, and while it warms my heart, it bores me. The story is about conflict. That's why all romances end with "and they lived happily ever after," because nobody wants the details of that stasis.
So we have two options with former teammates: stasis or forcible reduction of loyalty, like with VS. Not looking forward to either.
Of course, most people would be content with stasis. There's always the main story itself, after all, and the relationships between your Shepard and the teammates do not have to be central to the story, although I find that they are stronger and empower the story if they are an integral part of it.
But of course, if these relationships are an integral part of the story, their development becomes much harder to affect, because changing them would mean changing the story itself, and that's major work.
...Maybe we can have wavering loyalty, with someone trying to undermine the perfectly maxed relationship Shepard has with his teammates in order to tear the team apart and leave him alone. Or Shepard has to make a difficult choice, between galaxy and one of his teammates, thus distancing them. Or there's always betrayal, of course. A rather desperate way to break the stasis and deliver emotional punch. How many of you are actually looking forward to it?
