51 réponses à ce sujet

[ashez2ashes]

Is there a list of the retcons in DA2? I'm curious if the things I'm annoyed about are actual retcons or just one of the many glitches in DA2.

[ejoslin]

I don't think there's a formal list. Here are the two I know, however.

Leliana being alive can be a retcon. Even if you killed her, she's alive.
Zevran being alive can be a glitch. If you killed him, he's supposed to stay dead.

The romances not being acknowledged is a glitch.

There are a few other import issues. I think Leliana is the only deliberate retcon.

Is there anything is particular that is bothering you?

[ashez2ashes]

Leliana claimed to know my warden even though the two never met (never went to the lothering inn my first time through). It seemed like they could avoid that part pretty easily by just not including one dialogue option. So I was hoping it was just a small glitch (I don't mind her being alive).

Modifié par ashez2ashes, 26 avril 2011 - 04:07 .

[LobselVith8]

Leliana, Anders, and Justice can potentially be rectonned, since Leliana will come back from the dead and Justice meets Anders even if the Warden didn't recruit Anders and killed Justice.

Nathaniel referring to the Architect being alive if he was killed is a bug.

[ejoslin]

Oh, you know, I never even heard that one addressed (never meeting Leliana). It wouldn't surprise me if it were a glitch, but you may want to report it in the technical support forum. There are quite a few bugs with the cameos, and that could very well be one.

Modifié par ejoslin, 26 avril 2011 - 04:14 .

[ashez2ashes]

ejoslin wrote...

Oh, you know, I never even heard that one addressed (never meeting Leliana). It wouldn't surprise me if it were a glitch, but you may want to report it in the technical support forum. There are quite a few bugs with the cameos, and that could very well be one.

Which one should I report it? In the self help one or is there another?

[ejoslin]

Look in the self help one. There should be a massive thread on whatever platform you're using about the next patch.

Modifié par ejoslin, 26 avril 2011 - 04:28 .

[Augustei]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Leliana, Anders, and Justice can potentially be rectonned, since Leliana will come back from the dead and Justice meets Anders even if the Warden didn't recruit Anders and killed Justice.

Nathaniel referring to the Architect being alive if he was killed is a bug.

The Warden never has the option to kill Justice.. He just stabs the crap out of the body of kristoff until it falls to the ground. 

[Augustei]

ashez2ashes wrote...

Leliana claimed to know my warden even though the two never met (never went to the lothering inn my first time through). It seemed like they could avoid that part pretty easily by just not including one dialogue option. So I was hoping it was just a small glitch (I don't mind her being alive).

She made up a story because she is insane.. Thats why she has the multiple personality disorder as well, Being Pro Mage in origins and being anti-mage in DA2... Not to mention she watches you sleep lol

[Wulfram]

XxDeonxX wrote...

She made up a story because she is insane.. Thats why she has the multiple personality disorder as well, Being Pro Mage in origins and being anti-mage in DA2... Not to mention she watches you sleep lol

It's actually Hawke who brings up Leliana having travelled with the Warden

[ejoslin]

Oh, I forgot about Anders. It's possible not to recruit him, so he's a potential retcon as well. Justice's epilogue slides, provided his body isn't killed, indicate that he was around for quite awhile afterwards in Kristoff's body. But I am not sure that contradicting epilogue cards is a retcon.

[Fast Jimmy]

ejoslin wrote...

Oh, I forgot about Anders. It's possible not to recruit him, so he's a potential retcon as well. Justice's epilogue slides, provided his body isn't killed, indicate that he was around for quite awhile afterwards in Kristoff's body. But I am not sure that contradicting epilogue cards is a retcon.

Tell that to all the people who don't want the OGB to ever appear again...

[Avissel]

ejoslin wrote...

Oh, I forgot about Anders. It's possible not to recruit him, so he's a potential retcon as well. Justice's epilogue slides, provided his body isn't killed, indicate that he was around for quite awhile afterwards in Kristoff's body. But I am not sure that contradicting epilogue cards is a retcon.

The epilouges have been stated as "being rumours" by Bioware before, basically you should not base any claims of retcons or cannon off of them.


and Leliana being alive if you killed her hasn't yet been shown to be a retcon. Garider once responded to a thread that involved her saying 'who said it didn't happen?"

So if you killed her, she got undeaded somehow after the fact.

Modifié par Avissel, 26 avril 2011 - 02:41 .

[Wulfram]

Avissel wrote...

The epilouges have been stated as "being rumours" by Bioware before, basically you should not base any claims of retcons or cannon off of them.

They became rumours after Bioware decided to ignore them

[Avissel]

Wulfram wrote...

They became rumours after Bioware decided to ignore them

Not all of them were ignored. But I'm guessing they decided it was a bad idea to tell us what was going to happen to characters years in the future when the next game would be set a few months later. They kinda wrote themselves into a corner.

[LobselVith8]

Wulfram wrote...

Avissel wrote...

The epilouges have been stated as "being rumours" by Bioware before, basically you should not base any claims of retcons or cannon off of them.

They became rumours after Bioware decided to ignore them

Pretty much, which is why (for instance) the Orzammar Circle never happens if the Warden asked for the Magi boon, and then WoG said the Chantry said no to the Magi boon, but never explained why no independent Circle exists in the Great Thaig of Orzammar if this is the case.

[Alamar2078]

ejoslin wrote...

Oh, I forgot about Anders. It's possible not to recruit him, so he's a potential retcon as well. Justice's epilogue slides, provided his body isn't killed, indicate that he was around for quite awhile afterwards in Kristoff's body. But I am not sure that contradicting epilogue cards is a retcon.

According to Bioware violating the epilogue cards is fair game.

BTW:  Yes I am one of those people that like epilogues to actually mean something as they are a reasonably easy way to let you know how your choices mattered.   Retconning the choices in the epilogue cards [to me] just ruins the feeling that choices are supposed to matter.

[Wulfram]

Alamar2078 wrote...

BTW:  Yes I am one of those people that like epilogues to actually mean something as they are a reasonably easy way to let you know how your choices mattered.   Retconning the choices in the epilogue cards [to me] just ruins the feeling that choices are supposed to matter.

The problem is that the lession Bioware seems to have learnt from the complaints about them contradicting epilogues is "don't include epilogues"

So we're left with "everyone left, except LI" as our only info about Hawke and co's future.  Though I expect they'll still end up contradicting that.

[Avissel]

Epilogue slides would work well for a one shot game, they don't really work in a game like DA where it's known that your going to be doing multiple games with a connected story and character carry over, they are just asking for trouble.

I think the lesson they learned was "Don't do the epilouge until the story is actaully over"

Modifié par Avissel, 26 avril 2011 - 03:52 .

[Jedi Master of Orion]

Did everyone who killed Zevran experience the gltich of him randomly showing up? Because I killed him in my first import, and he never appeared, even before the current patch. When I reached act 3 in my second import (where he was alive) the quest given appeared outside in the Blooming Rose.

[Alamar2078]

Avissel wrote...

Epilogue slides would work well for a one shot game, they don't really work in a game like DA where it's known that your going to be doing multiple games with a connected story and character carry over, they are just asking for trouble.

I think the lesson they learned was "Don't do the epilouge until the story is actaully over"

I will agree that if you don't have a good plan for future expansions, future games, etc. then epilogue slides should be avoided.   As a matter of fact world-changing decisions with radically different outcomes should also be avoided.

IMHO epilogue slides are only trouble if you are flying by the seat of your pants and have no idea what's going to happen in future expansions, games, etc.  Even then it's only a big problem if you reuse characters that would have appeared in said epilogue slides.

While I'm sure I'm in the minority I honestly believe that in an RPG that "choices" are more important than "story".  Yeah I really do mean that and everything it implies.

[Alamar2078]

Jedi Master of Orion wrote...

Did everyone who killed Zevran experience the gltich of him randomly showing up? Because I killed him in my first import, and he never appeared, even before the current patch. When I reached act 3 in my second import (where he was alive) the quest given appeared outside in the Blooming Rose.

I've always killed Zev and never saw him show up.  I assumed I just never triggered the events to make him show because I've only played a "goody-2-shoes" and a "sarcastic but basically good" character so far.   My rutheless playthrough hasn't gone far yet

Note:  I'm an XBox player.

[Avissel]

Alamar2078 wrote...
While I'm sure I'm in the minority I honestly believe that in an RPG that "choices" are more important than "story".  Yeah I really do mean that and everything it implies.

I never said choices aren't important, but you have to find a balance. If players are given too many choices over how the world takes shape then it makes nearly impossible to construct a second game because of all the variables.

One way to look at DA2 (wethier it was intentional or not I can't say) is that it presents a more realistic concept of how choices work. Take Anders act 3 quest. Lots of people complain because if you dont help him, it doesn't change events, they say this removes choice. But it doesn't, you still had the choice, but in this instance your choice did not become the law of the univearse, over writing the descisions of all involved. It's also an example of defeating a troupe lots of people complain about in rpgs "only the main character can do things". If you don't help him, he does it himself.

You can see it as ethier good or bad depending on how you feel about that idea of playing in a game where you character is not the center of the univearse.

[Viyu]

I think the problem with the "epilogues being rumors" excuse is that it doesn't change the fact that what decisions you made IN-GAME should not be rumor. And during the game you can choose not to recruit Anders OR Justice. You can choose not to recruit Leilianna for example. So even though the epilogues are rumors doesn't mean it should excuse them from taking into consideration fans' decisions from previous games. No offense, but it's like they totally forgot that decisions is like 1/2 of the gameplay. And once you take away the value of 1/2 of the gameplay, you have a rather "half done" product. So are what they saying is that this whole game was one big fat rumor? Then what is the point of me making decisions and playing the game if you're deciding how everything turns out for me?

I think the more variables there is to consider, the fewer old characters need to make appearences for the sake of keeping the story consistent.

Modifié par Viyu, 26 avril 2011 - 04:24 .

[ejoslin]

Well, in future games, I can hear the same yelling over Fenris and Anders that I did over Zevran (I killed him and that's that -- why would he have a cameo. He's DEAD and my game choices are more important than yours!). I actually find it more that a bit disturbing that the two male LIs can be killed, and the two female LIs cannot. So in a future game, the male LIs cannot be a part of them while the female LIs can be.

Ah well, Zevran alive does have an interesting and far reaching impact on Thedas. My guess is it will be ignored in subsequent games as well.