730 réponses à ce sujet

[Clonedzero]

how dare they try and make ashley more appealing! HOW DARE THEY!

[Kaiser Shepard]

Clonedzero wrote...

how dare they try and make ashley more appealing! HOW DARE THEY!

It's the catsuit during combat part people have a problem with, not her now wearing her hair down.

[didymos1120]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

how dare they try and make ashley more appealing! HOW DARE THEY!

It's the catsuit during combat part people have a problem with, not her now wearing her hair down.

Well, to be fair, a lot of people have been pitching fits over her hair too.

Modifié par didymos1120, 27 avril 2011 - 01:42 .

[Abramis brama]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

how dare they try and make ashley more appealing! HOW DARE THEY!

It's the catsuit during combat part people have a problem with, not her now wearing her hair down.

Lot of people have problems with the hair down part too (like me). Soldiers don't have their hair down, it's just looks ridiculous. It also seems that Ashley has gone little bit too heavy on the make-up too.
She looks more of a joke of her former self not more "appealing" or whatever.

[Il Divo]

Elite Midget wrote...

It does when they're a-okay with woman wearing catsuits in space and fully approve of it when it was already established the merits of wearing armor in said Universe. Thus the only logical conclusion is that they have no respect for woman and want them to look 'sexed up' for their viewing pleasure. Ergo they see them as objects for their sexual attention and it's a huge diservice to all woman characters in video games.

Or, you know, some of us actually prefer individualized outfits akin to Jade Empire and Dragon Age II over generic armor, regardless of lore expectations. This was the exact reason why I kept my entire Kotor party in their starting gear.

But according to you, I suppose the only 'logical' conclusion is that I view all women as objects...

Modifié par Il Divo, 27 avril 2011 - 01:57 .

[Ahriman]

Il Divo wrote...
Or, you know, some of us actually prefer individualized outfits akin to Jade Empire and Dragon Age II over generic armor, regardless of lore expectations. This was the exact reason why I kept my entire Kotor party in their starting gear.
But according to you, I suppose the only 'logical' conclusion is that I view all women as objects...

What do you mean by " individualized outfits akin"? Because wearing armor isn't equal to "generic armor", just look at last Miranda's armor.

[Kaiser Shepard]

Okay then, I'll take back what I said.

[Il Divo]

Wizz wrote...
What do you mean by " individualized outfits akin"? Because wearing armor isn't equal to "generic armor", just look at last Miranda's armor.

Individualized outfits are when the developers create the clothing/personal effects for each character. In some games, like Knights of the Old Republic, every squad member has a unique ouffit that is quickly replaced by the need to upgrade to better weapons/armor. Other Bioware games (Jade Empire, Dragon Age II, Mass Effect 2) instead follow a design where these characters retain their outfits for most of the game, which imo makes them feel more unique. 

If given the choice between two extremes, I'll choose the individualized outfits over Mass Effect 1's approach.

[Ahriman]

Il Divo wrote...
Individualized outfits are when the developers create the clothing/personal effects for each character. In some games, like Knights of the Old Republic, every squad member has a unique ouffit that is quickly replaced by the need to upgrade to better weapons/armor. Other Bioware games (Jade Empire, Dragon Age II, Mass Effect 2) instead follow a design where these characters retain their outfits for most of the game, which imo makes them feel more unique. 

If given the choice between two extremes, I'll choose the individualized outfits over Mass Effect 1's approach.

But what do you actually want: individual armor or individual catsuits?

[Il Divo]

Wizz wrote...

But what do you actually want: individual armor or individual catsuits?

This isn't an absolute; it depends on the character. I'm not going to say that I want every character to wear armor, because I've seen examples where I thought it worked out well (Thane, Mordin). On the other hand, I wouldn't really mind if I never saw Samara's red jumpsuit again, which didn't seem to fit her character.

[candidate88766]

didymos1120 wrote...

candidate88766 wrote...

I thought kinetic barriers provided far more protection than the actual armour; isn't that why lots of the characters walk around hostile environments in bare skin?

Poor Codex writers.  Nobody seems to want to read the thing:

"The shielding afforded by kinetic barriers does not protect against extremes of temperature, toxins, or radiation."

And yes, they are the main form of protection, but they only protect against high velocity objects (which is why the biotic barriers of ME2 don't make any sense as anything other than a gameplay element, as no one is mentally quick enough to block, or even capable of detecting, things moving at the velocities produced by mass accelerator weaponry.  This is likely the reason why the lore doesn't acknowledge their existence) :

"The outer layer consists of automatically-generated kinetic barriers. Objects traveling above a certain speed will trigger the barrier's reflex system and be deflected, provided there is enough energy left in the shield's power cell."

The reason armor is used is because kinetic barriers aren't perfect. They don't block stuff under the velocity threshhold, and even then stuff still slips through at times. In either case, despite moving much slower than a typical projectile, such an object can still be plenty lethal:

"If a bullet or other incoming object gets past the barrier, it contends with the more traditional body armor. A sealed suit of non-porous ballistic cloth provides kinetic and environmental protection, reinforced by lightweight composite ceramic plates in areas that either don't need to flex or require additional coverage, such as the chest and head. When the armor is hit by directed energy weapons, the plates boil away or ablate rather than burning the wearer."

Ignore gameplay though, because it has its own rules that don't follow the lore.  Shields/Barriers are damaged by everything, no matter how slow moving (melee attacks, varren bites, that drug on Samara's loyalty mission), and must be stripped before health (or armor) can be affected.

My bad, I think I got kinetic barriers muddled with mass effect fields - like the one on the derelict Reaper that allowed everyone to breath despite being pretty much outside the Reaper. Unless I'm getting muddled again and there was some other reason for that.

Btw, is all the codex stuff on the wiki? I sometimes struggle to work out what info is from the codex and what is just inferred from the game.

And with regards to the biotic barriers not being mentioned in the codex aren't there quite a few powers (e.g. reave) that don't really make much sense in the lore? Just out of curiosity, its been a while since I've played.

Modifié par candidate88766, 27 avril 2011 - 02:34 .

[Clonedzero]

hair down i dont mind at all. its mass effect theres probably super space hairspray she can use to keep it from going in her face.

catsuits i dont mind so much when they're walking about casually.

in combat? not a huge deal in certain situations, a rather big deal in others. like i never minded the whole miranda wearing her outfit in situations like fighting in illium or horizon. however it was really dumb that she was walking about in vacuum in it. though that applies to a large chunk of ME2 squadmates.

thane (explosed chest and hands), miranda (chest, head), jack(entire top half), zaeed (arm and back of head), jacob(head), mordin(head), samara(head, chest), and grunt (arms) all have exposed skin in space areas. outside those though, it looks fine.

it always threw my helmet on during those parts so i dont see why they cant give characters an alternate environment suit costume when it comes to it.

also, with her hair and outfit change, i think a huge part of that is due to her being a spectre, since she doesnt have to follow all those silly military regulations. also maybe over the years she relaxed her style more.

[Tilarta]

It's unlikely that Ashley (or any other Squadmate) will be assigned a seperate outfit for combat, as ME2 has established they wear one outfit all the time.

I suspect if you spend all your time wearing heavy armor, you'd want something light and comfortable while off duty, not a leather and metal bodysuit.

And it always has been a core part of Ashley's character to wear armor, she shouldn't give that up for ME3.

As to the protective value of armor, it has been noted a few times that the more heavily armored portions of the suit can deflect "a richocheted round".

There was an example once where the legs of any armored suit are often targets, because the armor plates are thinnest there.

Whereas the Torso and head most likely have the heaviest armor, with the arms being the next heaviest.

Ashley is above all practical, she wouldn't wear some lightweight leather suit into battle, it's just not like her at all.

[kyg_20X6]

Isn't she (or Kaiden) a Spectre now? If so, she can wear whatever she wants. Since she wears her hair down she's obviously be a bit more casual. She's not an alliance soldier, she doesn't have to wear regulation armour.

[didymos1120]

Tilarta wrote...

As to the protective value of armor, it has been noted a few times that the more heavily armored portions of the suit can deflect "a richocheted round".

For anyone wanting to know how the armor and barriers "really" work, see Revelation. There are a few instances in it where the basic mechanics of an ME firefight are laid out pretty clearly.  Basically:

No kinetic barrier == Insta-toast

No armor === Not quite insta-toast  (You'll last a little bit longer, but rounds at still-lethal velocities will make it through)

Kinetic barrier + armor == decent shot at survival

The only way people get away with not wearing either is when they've got good cover, someone else is the one taking fire, or they luck the hell out.

[Abramis brama]

kyg_20X6 wrote...

Isn't she (or Kaiden) a Spectre now? If so, she can wear whatever she wants. Since she wears her hair down she's obviously be a bit more casual. She's not an alliance soldier, she doesn't have to wear regulation armour.

How does being Spectre make any difference? She didn't wear the armor in ME1 and 2 just because "some one said so" but for protection. Same with hair. Having hair down makes it easier to get into the way and Ashley's  the kind of type who'd choose practicality
over looks any day.

[DrRedrum]

Well, I guess I'm glad that she is dead in all my games then. Don't have to worry about any of these problems. And Kaiden seems okay with wearing armor still, so it is quite odd to see Ashley change hers.

[lovgreno]

DxWill10 wrote...

It always makes me laugh when guys complain about a girl looking too good. You don't like her make-up? You don't like her sexy hair attractively let down? You don't want her in a sexy outfit like Miranda?

Maybe I just love women too much to be upset one of the characters is getting better looking

I have nothing against beautifull women, on the contrary I like gals like Ashley. She can wear whatever she want off duty. But in combat I expect a professional frontline soldier to dress up in the best protection she can. And besides heavy armours are sexy.

[Elite Midget]

Il Divo wrote...
Or, you know, some of us actually prefer individualized outfits akin to Jade Empire and Dragon Age II over generic armor, regardless of lore expectations. This was the exact reason why I kept my entire Kotor party in their starting gear.

But according to you, I suppose the only 'logical' conclusion is that I view all women as objects...

You say you perfer individualism yet Ashley's catsuit is just like Mirandas. Her hair? Just like Mirandas. Basically she isn't an ibdividual at the moment instead she's Miranda 2.0. Ashley Fans never wanted her to become Miranda 2.0 and get hit by the stupid stick.

Furthermore armor can be made to be unique and represent a persons individuality. The fact that you don't believe that to be the case and support catsuit Ashley shows you have no respect to the character or the fanbase that has been around since ME1.

So yes. Because you believe making Ashley into Miranda 2.0 as 'individualism' it either means you have poor eyes or you approve of the oversexualizeing of Ashley into a sex object which she wasen't in ME1 or ME2.

[Shadowrun1177]

Elite Midget wrote...

Il Divo wrote...
Or, you know, some of us actually prefer individualized outfits akin to Jade Empire and Dragon Age II over generic armor, regardless of lore expectations. This was the exact reason why I kept my entire Kotor party in their starting gear.

But according to you, I suppose the only 'logical' conclusion is that I view all women as objects...

You say you perfer individualism yet Ashley's catsuit is just like Mirandas. Her hair? Just like Mirandas. Basically she isn't an ibdividual at the moment instead she's Miranda 2.0. Ashley Fans never wanted her to become Miranda 2.0 and get hit by the stupid stick.

Furthermore armor can be made to be unique and represent a persons individuality. The fact that you don't believe that to be the case and support catsuit Ashley shows you have no respect to the character or the fanbase that has been around since ME1.

So yes. Because you believe making Ashley into Miranda 2.0 as 'individualism' it either means you have poor eyes or you approve of the oversexualizeing of Ashley into a sex object which she wasen't in ME1 or ME2.

Except you don't know they are making Ashely into Mrianda 2.0, your making assumptions off of one screen shot. Add in the fact that the screen shot is only a side upper body shot. I personally like Ashely's updated look and am glad they aren't stick with the hair tied in bun and pink and white armor. Also an individual is more then just appearance which is what your making your assumptions on about her turning into Miranda 2.0. 

[Elite Midget]

Yes I do know from what was revealed already. Her suit = Miranda's suit. Her hair = Miranda's hair. Thus from just that we can make the educated guess that she's been turned from BAMF soldier into Barbie Miranda 2.0.

Thus it isn't just heresay since Im' not the only one to see the irrefutable similarities that New Ashley shares with Miranda.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 27 avril 2011 - 05:33 .

[didymos1120]

Elite Midget wrote...

Her suit = Miranda's suit. Her hair = Miranda's hair.

But they're not. Not to the level of "equals". 

[ObserverStatus]

didymos1120 wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

Her suit = Miranda's suit. Her hair = Miranda's hair.

But they're not. Not to the level of "equals". 

*edit* Her suit ≈ Miranda's suit. Her hair ≈ Miranda's hair.
I still think it looks more like the zero suit though.

Modifié par bobobo878, 27 avril 2011 - 05:46 .

[Il Divo]

Elite Midget wrote...

You say you perfer individualism yet Ashley's catsuit is just like Mirandas. Her hair? Just like Mirandas. Basically she isn't an ibdividual at the moment instead she's Miranda 2.0. Ashley Fans never wanted her to become Miranda 2.0 and get hit by the stupid stick.

Does she have a unique look? If the answer is yes, then it's individualism. Whether the outfit itself is appropriate or reflects her personality is another question entirely. You also have not pointed out where it's been shown that this is her military wear.

Furthermore armor can be made to be unique and represent a persons individuality. The fact that you don't believe that to be the case and support catsuit Ashley shows you have no respect to the character or the fanbase that has been around since ME1.

Well, thank you for proving yourself a moron. You've cleared that up at least.  

Let me explain why (once more, to a moron). Nowhere did I say that all armor cannot be made to be unique or represent a character's personality. However in some cases (such as Thane/Mordin) I do not think that armor was the only option for making the character unique.

Canderous' vest from Kotor? Unique to his character. Kang the Mad's outfit? Unique to his character. Morrigan's outfit? Unique to her character. Varric's outfit? I hope you can figure it out from here...

Individualized outfits are not just about what the outfit looks like. Individualism means that it's unique to that character. Ashley's unique outfit could have been her Mass Effect 1 white/pink armor, it could have been anything and I would still approve of it if it was unique to her and suits the character.

The best option for Ashley is individualized armor, as seen in Mass Effect 2 on Horizon.

The worst option is playing dress up where I choose everything that Ashley wears so that she (and every other party member) feels completely generic when under my command. 
 

So yes. Because you believe making Ashley into Miranda 2.0 as 'individualism' it either means you have poor eyes or you approve of the oversexualizeing of Ashley into a sex object which she wasen't in ME1 or ME2.

There's always option C: you are a moron.

I'm going to go with option C.

[didymos1120]

bobobo878 wrote...

*edit* Her suit ≈ Miranda's suit. Her hair ≈ Miranda's hair.

<grunt>Hmm. Hmph! That's... acceptable. </grunt>

I still think it looks more like the zero suit though.

So do I.