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[WizenSlinky0]

TomY90 wrote...

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

If she suddenly starts passing Shepard love notes during battle and giggling...well we'll have some issues.

that I would love to see, but I doubt they will change the characters personality at all really if anything she will be even more stronger opinionated that she was in ME1 considering she is not having to live with the name of her relative.

But I do feel though bioware did go against similar rules they placed on Garrus (you can do what you wish with Garrus so as long as he has a blue eye piece and black and blue armour with blue on the face its garrus.

which I do feel if they had nods to the ashley williams ME1 look (white and pink) it would be more accepted but I guess the white and pink would make her really look like a barbie doll though with the new armour and hair design.

Oh I think it'd be a hilarious "easter egg" type deal. But I just don't want to see her overall personality changed too much. She's not a giggling school girl, she's not good with words, and she's tough as nails. She can have her vulnerable moments, of course, especially for those who romanced her. But I'd like to see her overall traits maintained. Her armor is a secondary concern.

I think a big portion of their "Garrus rules" were the fact he's an alien. Because we're, inevitably, human (I hope!) we know how to tell the differences between different humans. It's built in to us from our childhood. We recognize who someone is by sometimes subtle differences.

There's a very real risk of more alien characters all looking the same to our eyes, since we don't know how to process those same subtle differences. We don't know what to "look for" to differentiate them. By giving them iconic looks, face paints, etc. it gives our eyes something to focus on to tell the difference between characters.

[Il Divo]

iakus wrote...

How so?  In ME2, we have the default outfits, the unlocked "Loyal" outfits, and in some cases, the AAP outfit.  Granted all are pretty much reskins, but some are a lot more...appropriate for combat than others.  There's a world of difference between Miranda's AAP outfit than her "cut off circulation to her extremities" look.  Garrus's battle-damaged armor looks different than his undamaged look.  But there's no "inventory" to keep track of for any of it. 

Kotor: If I think Canderous looks 'more appropriate' in his starting outfit over his durasteel heavy armor, I effectively lose 10 AC and any stat bonuses that might come with that (no small smatter).

Mass Effect 2: If you think Miranda looks better in her AAP outfit while I prefer her original outfit, we are still on the same page; it's tied to appearance, nothing else. There is no pressure for me to change Miranda's outfit due to gameplay mechanics; it's simply aesthetic.

In the case of Mass Effect, it was far more difficult to keep the companions in their starter outfits (with its realtime combat) than it was to keep the Kotor party, where I could more easily balance out the lack of armor.

Also I think you are ignoring the rather large difference between offering 1-2 alternate outfits (still designed specifically for each character) over 15-20 different models of armor which are typically designed for Shepard over party members, or aren't given much thought (Wrex + pink armor = bad). 

And there's the heart of it.  The style for Ashley appears to have changed.  And in more ways than just getting rid of the pink armor.  Ash is a soldier, a warrior.  Heavily armed and armored, the photo seems to say otherwise.  This has Ash fans like me worried.  Yeah, it's great to have her back, but are we really getting "her" back?  Is her appearance the only thing that's changed?  Could this be some kind of lobotiomized/fanservice version of her?  to paraphrase her own words "What did Bioware do to you?"  A lot of people were unhappy with what was done to Ash in ME 2.  Was that only the beginning? 

And this I can understand. But with unique armor, this is always going to be a concern (whether we find the outfit appropriate). In some cases, like Samara, her look didn't even seem to fit her given personality, although Matriarch Benezia was similar in this regard. Some often complain about Isabela (and even Morrigan!), though in her case I do think the clothing fits her personality.

On the other hand, I don't mind ME2's stylistic changes as they pertain to Mordin, Thane, Kasumi, etc, because I did not find ME1's insistence on armor all that 'unique'.

Modifié par Il Divo, 01 mai 2011 - 12:37 .

[TobiTobsen]

Isn't the old writer of Ash gone from BioWare? Probably the new one thought that Ash had to be more appealing to the majority of players in ME3

[didymos1120]

TobiTobsen wrote...

Isn't the old writer of Ash gone from BioWare? Probably the new one thought that Ash had to be more appealing to the majority of players in ME3

Right.  Because a junior writer gets to make calls like that.

[didymos1120]

Imperium Alpha wrote...

Dragon Age 2

Um, no.  Changes like that require approval, even if the idea originates with a regular writer.  Is there some evidence that this was the case in DA2 anyway?

[SennenScale]

didymos1120 wrote...

Um, no.  Changes like that require approval, even if the idea originates with a regular writer.  Is there some evidence that this was the case in DA2 anyway?

You assume the other writers would disapprove of a catsuited Ash when they were totally fine with Samara's outfit. At least even Jack's nipple belt makes slight sense for that character and Miranda seems like she might use her body to her advantage. But Miss non-LI I-Put-That-Stage-Of-Life-Behind-Me-And-I-Am-Hunting-A-Space-Vamp? That's overkill.

Not to mention Reave's "screw you, ME1 biotics!" thing going on. Biotics can't do that, and if it is a biological function of the asari, then why can Shepard learn it?

Modifié par SennenScale, 01 mai 2011 - 01:51 .

[didymos1120]

SennenScale wrote...

You assume the other writers would disapprove of a catsuited Ash when they were totally fine with Samara's outfit. At least even Jack's nipple belt makes slight sense for that character and Miranda seems like she might use her body to her advantage. But Miss non-LI I-Put-That-Stage-Of-Life-Behind-Me-And-I-Am-Hunting-A-Space-Vamp? That's overkill.

Uh, what? All I'm saying is that if Ash has been changed, it won't be because some junior writer did so on a whim.  Why? Because they're not in charge, and they don't own the character.

[Antivenger]

SennenScale wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Um, no.  Changes like that require approval, even if the idea originates with a regular writer.  Is there some evidence that this was the case in DA2 anyway?

You assume the other writers would disapprove of a catsuited Ash when they were totally fine with Samara's outfit. At least even Jack's nipple belt makes slight sense for that character and Miranda seems like she might use her body to her advantage. But Miss non-LI I-Put-That-Stage-Of-Life-Behind-Me-And-I-Am-Hunting-A-Space-Vamp? That's overkill.

 What do you mean by (bolded)? I don't understand.

[corporal doody]

something i wrote in another topic regarding Samara's attire

Samara's suit made sense to me. asari are a little more open about their sexual nature than other species. Samara rarely leaves asari space. who knows how old she is. she is most likely set in her ways. she is Billy Bada** incarnate. A Toshiro Mifune starring in a Akira Kurosawa film from the 50's and 60's. her modesty (rather human interpretation thereof) is of no consequence as she is chaste. No one is gonna mess with her cuz she dressed the way she is....if they do...chances are they arent going to live long enough to be able to apologize...cuz any insult means death... assuming justicars follow the ideological template of bushido during the Edo period....mixed with chevalier ideals as well of course.

however, i do wish she would dress appropriately for some missions....but that complaint is not solely for her...but all characters.

[SennenScale]

Antivenger wrote...

SennenScale wrote...

You assume the other writers would disapprove of a catsuited Ash when they were totally fine with Samara's outfit. At least even Jack's nipple belt makes slight sense for that character and Miranda seems like she might use her body to her advantage. But Miss non-LI I-Put-That-Stage-Of-Life-Behind-Me-And-I-Am-Hunting-A-Space-Vamp? That's overkill.

 What do you mean by (bolded)? I don't understand.

I know love interests will be sexualised. That's a fact. But Samara's outfit as a non love interest who is not interested anymore (she says she's left the maiden stage IIRC and sternly pushes you away), who is hunting her Sexual-Space-Vampire of a daughter Morinth (a result of her previous romance) and chooses to not pursue romance anymore (it's not banned by her code, she says...she chooses not to of her own will) is more than a little silly. If asari didn't have modesty, I could accept that grudgingly, but several dress much more conservatively than Samara. Hell, even Morinth, if you take her instead, dressed a tad more modestly IIRC. Plus, she's an experienced combatant in high heels. Trust me, that doesn't work.

It doesn't look very promising for Ash if not even non-romanceable females can dress without letting their boobs hang out, and you know Ash will be a love interest for sure. Asari might be more open, but I doubt that's the real reason she's dressed as is.

Maybe it stands out more because I am a woman myself, but would it be so awful for Mass Effect to be a little more respectful? Just one female teammate (one of the nonromance ones) who dresses normally or appropriate for combat?

Modifié par SennenScale, 01 mai 2011 - 02:08 .

[corporal doody]

quite a few asari on the citadel are wearing attire that we today would consider risque. human females on the citadel are wearing the same stuff. it seems the Asari set the standard for couture in the future.. so what do the asari consider normal, sexy, and taboo? or humans for that matter? the one Justicar we see is wearing what WE consider risque attire..but to them it may not be. Justicar are idolized by the asari..and not one took the time to tell her to cover up..they were in awe...not at her cleavage but her mere presence.

im all for the sexy....but in combat (depending on location occurring) isnt the place for certain attire. if Shep has to wear a full on EVA suit...everyone else should.

Modifié par corporal doody, 01 mai 2011 - 02:12 .

[SennenScale]

And quite a few asari do not. And that would be a hand-wave at best, and it's not ever offered ingame, it's rather generous speculation. The ass-shots on Miranda and that closeup on femshep's own boobs demonstrate what the out of game intent was.

I'm not against some sexualization of the romanceable squaddies (though practical soldier Ash clearly favored medium and heavy armor in ME1 so that just doesn't make sense without some change to Ash as a character) but does it really have to extend to nonromanceable ones?

Modifié par SennenScale, 01 mai 2011 - 02:21 .

[Seboist]

All the older and mature Asari in positions of leadership wear modest attire.





Heck, even the Asari mercenary thugs in her recruitment mission have the decency to wear appropriate gear and don't show skin.

Having Samara who's part of a strict religious order and who says she's put her days of partying and sex behind her show more skin than her sex crazed "hedonist" (in Samara's words) murderous daughter doesn't add up. It's part of ME2's direction of oversexualized attire pandering to the lowest common denominator as evidenced by her first appearence where the camera pans from her feet all the way up to her V neck.

[didymos1120]

Seboist wrote...

All the older and mature Asari in positions of leadership wear modest attire.

OK, you're citing Aethyta as someone in a "postion of leadership"? 

[corporal doody]

Benezia was practically bursting at the seams! with her ample bosoms nearly spilling out.

again...i totally agree...in certain situations full suits should be made available if the player so wishes...on ship or in no combat areas....characters can wear whatever they want!

if not....than i think it time to bring in some Puritan artists for ME3!

[Seboist]

didymos1120 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

All the older and mature Asari in positions of leadership wear modest attire.

OK, you're citing Aethyta as someone in a "postion of leadership"? 

She's still officially a Matriach and isn't their job to be advisors and mentors?

[Il Divo]

Seboist wrote...

Having Samara who's part of a strict religious order and who says she's put her days of partying and sex behind her show more skin than her sex crazed "hedonist" (in Samara's words) murderous daughter doesn't add up. It's part of ME2's direction of oversexualized attire pandering to the lowest common denominator as evidenced by her first appearence where the camera pans from her feet all the way up to her V neck.

[Il Divo]

Seboist wrote...

She's still officially a Matriach and isn't their job to be advisors and mentors?

Yes, I can't think of a single Asari Matriarch who would wear revealing clothing....

[Seboist]

Il Divo wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Having Samara who's part of a strict religious order and who says she's put her days of partying and sex behind her show more skin than her sex crazed "hedonist" (in Samara's words) murderous daughter doesn't add up. It's part of ME2's direction of oversexualized attire pandering to the lowest common denominator as evidenced by her first appearence where the camera pans from her feet all the way up to her V neck.

Benezia showing more skin than the consort is another oddity as well.

[corporal doody]

Seboist wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

All the older and mature Asari in positions of leadership wear modest attire.

OK, you're citing Aethyta as someone in a "postion of leadership"? 

She's still officially a Matriach and isn't their job to be advisors and mentors?

but i dont think that is a GIMME For all..she was a bartender.  she seemed like a free spirit to me.

[Il Divo]

Seboist wrote...

Benezia showing more skin than the consort is another oddity as well.

Your point still fails though. According to you, all older/mature Asari are 'modest' in appearance. Given Aethyta's actual profession, that's a rather weak example. This leaves you with the Asari Councilor and possibly Shaira (who ironically enough melds with Shepard). In comparison to that, we have Matriarch Benezia and Samara, both wearing revealing clothing. So how do you know that all 'mature' Asari dress modestly?

Modifié par Il Divo, 01 mai 2011 - 02:59 .

[didymos1120]

Seboist wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

All the older and mature Asari in positions of leadership wear modest attire.

OK, you're citing Aethyta as someone in a "postion of leadership"? 

She's still officially a Matriach and isn't their job to be advisors and mentors?

"Matriarch" isn't some official position.  It's a biological stage, and the advisor thing is simply typical of an asari in that stage.  Also, did you see her doing much in the way of leading behind that bar?