255 réponses à ce sujet

[CulturalGeekGirl]

snfonseka wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

I think it's reasonable to assume that women ("Despite gaming being seen as a male activity, female players now make up about 40% of the gaming population.") who don't know the game and have never heard of it (even though they might have inadvertently seen the ME2 box in a game store, alongside other boxes featuring bald space marines like the ones featured in every other shooter in the world) are not going to sign up to this forums to ask for a certain type of cover for ME3 or to do something else (including buying the DLC's). They should get to know Mass Effect first. How could we possibly achieve that?

Exactly.

So you are trying to say that female gamers will show interest in a game, if that game box has a female character in front. So in other words, their decision on a game will based on a box-art of a game. I don't have many gaming female friends, but there are few.

By looking at the way they act and behave regarding choosing a game, I have to say you have dishonored their intelligence (by mentioning above).  Because they don't buy a game/ show interest in buying a game, just by looking at a box-art. They first do their own search/ info gathering regarding the game, they want to buy.

Out of the topic: The article (your link) is based on MMOs, more specifically on EverQuest II. 

The funny thing is, it's not just women.

I was talking with a straight male gamer friend a few weeks ago about how much I love Mass Effect. He acted surprised.

"Wait, isn't this just another one of those shooters where you play as a crewcutted bro?" 
"Well... the default male is a crewcutted bro. But it's not just a shooter, it's an RPG, and you can change your face, or play as a kickass female commander. A significant portion of the game is determing the future of human diplomacy in space!" 
"Oh.... wow. But they put the crewcutted bro on the cover, of course." 

A lot of people are tired of the infinite army of crewcutted bros in gaming. They want to play as Nathan Drake, or  Samus Aran, or somebody other than a generic, emotionless tough guy. They want to play something other than a shooter. But put a dude with a gun and a crewcut on the cover, and they have no reason to assume the game's any different from all the other games with a dude with a gun and a crewcut on the cover. Or do you pick up every single game with a picture of a girl in pink doing her nails on it, and read the back to make sure it isn't some innovative story-based RPG? I assume you don't. I don't. We do a limited amount of judging books by their covers. Otherwise books wouldn't have covers, and the design departments of all the major publishing houses would be out of work. Otherwise the cover of Mass Effect would just be a blank white sheet of paper with the words Mass Effect centered in Courrier New.

So a smaller marketing push (whether or not it involves an alternate cover) that shows the parts of Mass Effect that aren't immediately visible from the cover would help. As would a reversible cover with Femshep on the inside... it does NOT cost that much more to do a reversible cover (I know some people who work for an anime localization company that did it), and then Gamestop/chainstore employees could decide whether showing that cover on one of the five boxes they have out is worth the hassle or not.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 27 avril 2011 - 03:12 .

[Fiery Phoenix]

That's an interesting take, CGG. Thanks for sharing.

There was, in fact, a single promo picture of Mass Effect featuring FemShep prior to the release of ME1:



The best part is, I never saw anything like that during ME2's marketing.

[Whyp_2]

When I look at this pic (With Wrex included) it really would be so bad to have one FemShep cover.

[Clonedzero]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

snfonseka wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

I think it's reasonable to assume that women ("Despite gaming being seen as a male activity, female players now make up about 40% of the gaming population.") who don't know the game and have never heard of it (even though they might have inadvertently seen the ME2 box in a game store, alongside other boxes featuring bald space marines like the ones featured in every other shooter in the world) are not going to sign up to this forums to ask for a certain type of cover for ME3 or to do something else (including buying the DLC's). They should get to know Mass Effect first. How could we possibly achieve that?

Exactly.

So you are trying to say that female gamers will show interest in a game, if that game box has a female character in front. So in other words, their decision on a game will based on a box-art of a game. I don't have many gaming female friends, but there are few.

By looking at the way they act and behave regarding choosing a game, I have to say you have dishonored their intelligence (by mentioning above).  Because they don't buy a game/ show interest in buying a game, just by looking at a box-art. They first do their own search/ info gathering regarding the game, they want to buy.

Out of the topic: The article (your link) is based on MMOs, more specifically on EverQuest II. 

The funny thing is, it's not just women.

I was talking with a straight male gamer friend a few weeks ago about how much I love Mass Effect. He acted surprised.

"Wait, isn't this just another one of those shooters where you play as a crewcutted bro?" 
"Well... the default male is a crewcutted bro. But it's not just a shooter, it's an RPG, and you can change your face, or play as a kickass female commander. A significant portion of the game is determing the future of human diplomacy in space!" 
"Oh.... wow. But they put the crewcutted bro on the cover, of course." 

A lot of people are tired of the infinite army of crewcutted bros in gaming. They want to play as Nathan Drake, or  Samus Aran, or somebody other than a generic, emotionless tough guy. They want to play something other than a shooter. But put a dude with a gun and a crewcut on the cover, and they have no reason to assume the game's any different from all the other games with a dude with a gun and a crewcut on the cover. Or do you pick up every single game with a picture of a girl in pink doing her nails on it, and read the back to make sure it isn't some innovative story-based RPG? I assume you don't. I don't. We do a limited amount of judging books by their covers. Otherwise books wouldn't have covers, and the design departments of all the major publishing houses would be out of work. Otherwise the cover of Mass Effect would just be a blank white sheet of paper with the words Mass Effect centered in Courrier New.

So a smaller marketing push (whether or not it involves an alternate cover) that shows the parts of Mass Effect that aren't immediately visible from the cover would help. As would a reversible cover with Femshep on the inside... it does NOT cost that much more to do a reversible cover (I know some people who work for an anime localization company that did it), and then Gamestop/chainstore employees could decide whether showing that cover on one of the five boxes they have out is worth the hassle or not.

you realize the whole "crew-cutted bro" thing is because alot of games have you playing as a SOLDIER right? lol. thats exactly the case with mass effect. saying male shepard is emotionless and generic like your standard FPS protagonist is well. wrong. he has exactly the same personality and emotions as female shep and based on that alone you show your bias.

also suggesting samas aran has anymore personality than any generic crew cutted FPS protagonist is a joke. she has less personality than master chief and he has like 5 lines in the entire series lol. just because she's a female does not make her an interesting character. in fact the whole "samus aran is a female' as a replacement for real character makes me dislike her.

but back to the point. putting femshep on the cover would hurt sales more than help. there is brand recognition with male shepard. anyone who's taken any marketing classes will tell you brand recognition is EVERYTHING. you'll never see coca cola changing their logo ever. why? because its so recognizable now. people can look at a poster for mass effect 3, see sheploo and go "oh mass effect" without even reading the title.

personally i think its really insulting to females to say that they'll buy the game simply because theres a female on the cover. women arent stupid like that. the amount of people you'd attract to the game and gain in purchases would be dwarfed by the amount of lost sales due to people not realizing its mass effect 3 at a glance. thats just marketing 101.

and again, the ONLY people that want female shepard on the cover are already huge mass effect fans who love femshep. no one else would know the difference or care about the difference.

[Clonedzero]

centauri2002 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Yeah, realistic, that's the better way. An alternative cover, an alternative trailer for M3.

Not more.

Aye, exactly. It's not asking for much. It's the final game in the trilogy, they might as well put in a little extra to please the fans. And I'm sure having the extra cover art or a second trailer with FemShep will draw in some extra new players that may have passed it over otherwise. 

two different trailers? one with male shepard and one with female shepard? that'd be a bad idea. it'd confuse new players thinking theres two different versions of the game lol.

again, you're thinking like bias fans not advertisers

its ALL about people seeing sheploo and going "thats shepard!"

[Fiery Phoenix]

Whyp_2 wrote...

When I look at this pic (With Wrex included) it really would be so bad to have one FemShep cover.

This picture is actually on the back of ME1's cover. Xbox 360 version, at least.

[Centauri2002]

Clonedzero wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Yeah, realistic, that's the better way. An alternative cover, an alternative trailer for M3.

Not more.

Aye, exactly. It's not asking for much. It's the final game in the trilogy, they might as well put in a little extra to please the fans. And I'm sure having the extra cover art or a second trailer with FemShep will draw in some extra new players that may have passed it over otherwise. 

two different trailers? one with male shepard and one with female shepard? that'd be a bad idea. it'd confuse new players thinking theres two different versions of the game lol.

again, you're thinking like bias fans not advertisers

its ALL about people seeing sheploo and going "thats shepard!"

You talk about not giving female players enough credit and then you go and say something like that? I don't think gamers are stupid, they're going to realise it's an RPG and that you can customise your character. If not, tell them in the trailer.

Of course I'm showing my bias as a fan. But at least I admit it. And I'm sure it won't hurt their sales one bit. I don't look at Sheploo and think "that's Shepard". I have my own Shepard. And why would new players think that if they haven't played the previous games? I think having two different trailers would at least show that customisation is an option. Before I bought the first Mass Effect game, I didn't even know there was a female Shepard, let alone customisation of the model.

[Whyp_2]

@Fiery Phoenix Oh, I forgot that it actually is.

If they could atleast make one similiar in ME3, then I would be happy

Modifié par Whyp_2, 27 avril 2011 - 03:31 .

[MGIII]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Razorsedge820 wrote...

Does it really make a difference who is on the cover or being represented in advertisements? We all know Femshep is going to be in the game. Its not like Bioware/EA is out to upset and ignore all the female fans, they know Mass Effect has a huge female following. All that matters is whats in the game.

I never play as the default Shepard but it doesn't bother me he is on the cover and in advertisements, I would have same attitude if Femshep was on the cover. The simple fact of the matter is that there are more male players regardless of what certain threads and polls on this social site say, it's just that female fans of Mass Effect are more dedicated.

One problem with the covers and ads is that  a significant portion of female gamers don't realize that you can play as a girl in Mass Effect. It's not marketed to them, so they don't pick it up, and they end up grabbing the next Squenix RPG off the shelf instead.

I think back to my time in high school, when all my female friends were playing JRPGs. They would all have loved ME, but I don't think any of us would have bought it. Now, after years of no western games that cater to us, a lot of the female console gamers I know pretty much just play JRPGs, maybe Fable, and that's it. More Femshep marketing might get more female butts in these metaphorical seats. God knows there's plenty of romance and character development in here for them, and it's a damn sight better written than Squall and Rinoa.

Sure I'd like an alternate cover with Femshep on it for me, but who cares about me? I'm going to buy this game no matter what. I'm going to buy all the DLC for this game no matter what. They don't have to worry about me. I want the alternate cover for all the teenage or twentysomething girls who walk into Gamestop looking for a new RPG to play.

You say all that, then destroy your argument by citing that your female friends play Fable, a game which doesn't market the Hero as a female in any way. The only way you would know that you can choose a gender is by researching the game, which is the same situation for ME.

[Clonedzero]

centauri2002 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

Sylvianus wrote...

Yeah, realistic, that's the better way. An alternative cover, an alternative trailer for M3.

Not more.

Aye, exactly. It's not asking for much. It's the final game in the trilogy, they might as well put in a little extra to please the fans. And I'm sure having the extra cover art or a second trailer with FemShep will draw in some extra new players that may have passed it over otherwise. 

two different trailers? one with male shepard and one with female shepard? that'd be a bad idea. it'd confuse new players thinking theres two different versions of the game lol.

again, you're thinking like bias fans not advertisers

its ALL about people seeing sheploo and going "thats shepard!"

You talk about not giving female players enough credit and then you go and say something like that? I don't think gamers are stupid, they're going to realise it's an RPG and that you can customise your character. If not, tell them in the trailer.

Of course I'm showing my bias as a fan. But at least I admit it. And I'm sure it won't hurt their sales one bit. I don't look at Sheploo and think "that's Shepard". I have my own Shepard. And why would new players think that if they haven't played the previous games? I think having two different trailers would at least show that customisation is an option. Before I bought the first Mass Effect game, I didn't even know there was a female Shepard, let alone customisation of the model.

well the reason you dont see sheploo as shepard is because you already have a perception of shepard. you're already a fan, you're already sold on the product.

im talking about people who have never played the game and are only familiar with the ads and trailers. and yes as a whole, marketing is catering to peoples low attention span. if you can get your product/franchise to be recognized by a small visual cue like a main characters face, then that is what you shoud use. hence sheploo.

changing that would absolutely hurt their sales. not everyone is a big fan of the series like us forum goers. having an iconic character to use in trailers and cover arts and ads helps people get familiar with the product. having the main character look completely different depending on the specific ad/trailer/cover would make it all inconsistant and unrecognizable. you see one ad and it has sheploo, then you see a trailer with sheploo and think "oh right, that guy" and it snow balls.

if you use different people theres no "click" in the brain to recognize the product and you have to "resell" it to them instead of having each ad and trailer build off each other.

im not against femshepard at all,  hell i hope she gets her own set of motion capture this time around. but im looking at this from a purely marketing perspective and it'd be a HORRIBLE idea to use femshepard in any trailers, covers, ads, ect.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

MGIII wrote...

You say all that, then destroy your argument by citing that your female friends play Fable, a game which doesn't market the Hero as a female in any way. The only way you would know that you can choose a gender is by researching the game, which is the same situation for ME.

Except that Fable heavily featured the ability to play as female in its marketing. I know that I saw magazine pics of the female PC, and a lot of their coverage featured shots of the female character.

Also, Fable is a fantasy game. The cover is a soft-focus painting of someone in a fantasy setting, which is more similar to the cover of the JRPGs some of these girls are used to. It's easy to let your eye wander over from a copy of Final Fantasy XII to Fable and pick it up. Fantasy RPGs have been inviting girls in for longer than almost any other genre, so it's easy for them to imagine that a fantasy game might offer the same. With western space shooter games it's pretty much been go Samus or Go Home, as far as female progatonists go.

So... nope, Fable showed the female protag in marketing, and even if it didn't, it's not the same thing. Fable has the benefit that games that look like it almost always offer a female protagonist. Mass Effect has the problem that games that look like it almost never do.

[Abramis brama]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

That's an interesting take, CGG. Thanks for sharing.

There was, in fact, a single promo picture of Mass Effect featuring FemShep prior to the release of ME1:



The best part is, I never saw anything like that during ME2's marketing.

You mean the worst part, right?

[Centauri2002]

Clonedzero wrote...

well the reason you dont see sheploo as shepard is because you already have a perception of shepard. you're already a fan, you're already sold on the product.

im talking about people who have never played the game and are only familiar with the ads and trailers. and yes as a whole, marketing is catering to peoples low attention span. if you can get your product/franchise to be recognized by a small visual cue like a main characters face, then that is what you shoud use. hence sheploo.

changing that would absolutely hurt their sales. not everyone is a big fan of the series like us forum goers. having an iconic character to use in trailers and cover arts and ads helps people get familiar with the product. having the main character look completely different depending on the specific ad/trailer/cover would make it all inconsistant and unrecognizable. you see one ad and it has sheploo, then you see a trailer with sheploo and think "oh right, that guy" and it snow balls.

if you use different people theres no "click" in the brain to recognize the product and you have to "resell" it to them instead of having each ad and trailer build off each other.

im not against femshepard at all,  hell i hope she gets her own set of motion capture this time around. but im looking at this from a purely marketing perspective and it'd be a HORRIBLE idea to use femshepard in any trailers, covers, ads, ect.

If these people who have never played the game before and, yet, already associate it with Sheploo, then obviously the marketing didn't work for them and adding FemShep to a trailer may just be the lure they require.

Besides, no one's saying replace Sheploo as the face of Mass Effect. Would it be so much to ask that they just make a trailer to put on their main website? That way, if people go looking for information on Mass Effect, they'll see there's a female version but we can avoid this supposed confusion you talk about. The reversible cover won't be a problem at all. It's still hiding FemShep, unfortunately, but at least she's still there.

[MGIII]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

MGIII wrote...

You say all that, then destroy your argument by citing that your female friends play Fable, a game which doesn't market the Hero as a female in any way. The only way you would know that you can choose a gender is by researching the game, which is the same situation for ME.

Except that Fable heavily featured the ability to play as female in its marketing. I know that I saw magazine pics of the female PC, and a lot of their coverage featured shots of the female character.

Also, Fable is a fantasy game. The cover is a soft-focus painting of someone in a fantasy setting, which is more similar to the cover of the JRPGs some of these girls are used to. It's easy to let your eye wander over from a copy of Final Fantasy XII to Fable and pick it up. Fantasy RPGs have been inviting girls in for longer than almost any other genre, so it's easy for them to imagine that a fantasy game might offer the same. With western space shooter games it's pretty much been go Samus or Go Home, as far as female progatonists go.

So... nope, Fable showed the female protag in marketing, and even if it didn't, it's not the same thing. Fable has the benefit that games that look like it almost always offer a female protagonist. Mass Effect has the problem that games that look like it almost never do.

On the game covers, magazine advertisements, and television commercial, I've always seen a male. Never a female. Perhaps if you go to blogs, websites, and magazine articles that would cover the game extensively, you'll see some shots of femHero (which is the same deal for ME, I might add), but unless you know about the game beyond its title (highly likely since you're on a blog/website covering the game), you would not know you could play as a female. I mean, if memory serves, you couldn't even be a female in the first Fable. 

Also, if you can use conjecture like: "well, it looks like you can play as a female because it's a fantasy game," I can use a much more common, factually backed notion like "well, Bioware makes ME, and it's an RPG, and considering all Bioware RPGs of the last decade have had gender options, this game will likely have it too."

Both of those conclusions are inferences, but I think the latter is more rational.

Modifié par MGIII, 27 avril 2011 - 03:59 .

[Eradyn]

Reversible covers are nice, but to really sell it you need to actually mention the option to play as a female on the box and in interviews/articles where appropriate. They want to use Sheploo's face? Fine, but at least stop acting like you are ashamed to include the option to play as a female.

I'm not sure what is more insulting, BW...indirectly stating your male player base (and potential customers) are that rip-roaringly, mind-numbingly stupid as to get confused at the mention or passing reference to a female protagonist option, or to act as if your inclusion of femshep is something you are ashamed of. As if being female is a horrifically awful thing to be that you can't even mention her.

I'll admit, I picked up ME1 later on, after learning via word-of-mouth that femshep was an honest, full-fledged option and the game was a space opera rpg. There are so many generic games with lead males that I am very particular about which I spend my money on...learning ME1 had a female protagonist option rocketed the game to the top of my list. If only I had learned earlier it was an option, I would not have waited. There are not many games that give you a fully fledged, respectable female option and I like to support games when they do that as it is so rare to find.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Abramis brama wrote...

(...)

You mean the worst part, right?

Of course. It was intentional verbal irony.

[Hathur]

Am I in a minority of my fellow male gamers that I prefer playing as female Shepard simply because it's different from 95%+ of all the other games on market? I get the idea some want to market femshep to the female players of course, but aren't there male gamers like me who just find it a welcome change of pace to playthrough the story of a game from a female perspective (hell Shepard could have been an alien and it would have the same appeal to me as playing a femshep... anything other than another ho-hum human male space marine dude that I've played countless times before).

Though in all fairness a significant part of my decision to play femshep in ME1 was that my very first character was male and the voice did not agree with me.. wasn't until I heard & played a female Shepard for the first time that I began to also realize it was fun to seeing subtle tone & behavior changes playing as a female protagonist (especially considering there are so few games to offer a female protagonist at all).

[Clonedzero]

centauri2002 wrote...

Clonedzero wrote...

well the reason you dont see sheploo as shepard is because you already have a perception of shepard. you're already a fan, you're already sold on the product.

im talking about people who have never played the game and are only familiar with the ads and trailers. and yes as a whole, marketing is catering to peoples low attention span. if you can get your product/franchise to be recognized by a small visual cue like a main characters face, then that is what you shoud use. hence sheploo.

changing that would absolutely hurt their sales. not everyone is a big fan of the series like us forum goers. having an iconic character to use in trailers and cover arts and ads helps people get familiar with the product. having the main character look completely different depending on the specific ad/trailer/cover would make it all inconsistant and unrecognizable. you see one ad and it has sheploo, then you see a trailer with sheploo and think "oh right, that guy" and it snow balls.

if you use different people theres no "click" in the brain to recognize the product and you have to "resell" it to them instead of having each ad and trailer build off each other.

im not against femshepard at all,  hell i hope she gets her own set of motion capture this time around. but im looking at this from a purely marketing perspective and it'd be a HORRIBLE idea to use femshepard in any trailers, covers, ads, ect.

If these people who have never played the game before and, yet, already associate it with Sheploo, then obviously the marketing didn't work for them and adding FemShep to a trailer may just be the lure they require.

Besides, no one's saying replace Sheploo as the face of Mass Effect. Would it be so much to ask that they just make a trailer to put on their main website? That way, if people go looking for information on Mass Effect, they'll see there's a female version but we can avoid this supposed confusion you talk about. The reversible cover won't be a problem at all. It's still hiding FemShep, unfortunately, but at least she's still there.

right, they could put femshep in an alternate trailer if you go research the game, but then marketing has already done its job. sheploo will be in all the commercials and trailers. i'd be a large amount of money on that. though they should absolutely make it clear with press releases and on the main page of the website that you can be female shepard.

i think you're really underestimating the power of recognition though. for example, ive NEVER played any of the Uncharted games, not even for a second. though i absolutely know who nathan drake is. i know what he looks like, so when i saw that reveal trailer where he was in the desert i go "oh uncharted" before it even said so. same concept applies to sheploo and mass effect. if they had a trailer of a chick in generic spacey clothes walking down a street you wouldnt be able to tell it was female shepard till they told you so in the trailer. if it was sheploo you'd go "OH! mass effect!"

also, femshep doesnt have a default face of any real quality. like sheploo was scanned in from a real face. how would they decide what she looks like? cover up her face thats a bad idea, depersonalizes it making it less effective. they have no reference for what they should make femshep look like so they can use it. if they make her look a specific way in the ads there might even be femshep fan lashback.

like i saw a dev trailer where the artists are worried about showing talis face because of the fan lashback. same applies to a femshep default.

[snfonseka]

centauri2002 wrote...

snfonseka wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

I think it's reasonable to assume that women ("Despite gaming being seen as a male activity, female players now make up about 40% of the gaming population.") who don't know the game and have never heard of it (even though they might have inadvertently seen the ME2 box in a game store, alongside other boxes featuring bald space marines like the ones featured in every other shooter in the world) are not going to sign up to this forums to ask for a certain type of cover for ME3 or to do something else (including buying the DLC's). They should get to know Mass Effect first. How could we possibly achieve that?

Exactly.

So you are trying to say that female gamers will show interest in a game, if that game box has a female character in front. So in other words, their decision on a game will based on a box-art of a game. I don't have many gaming female friends, but there are few.

By looking at the way they act and behave regarding choosing a game, I have to say you have dishonored their intelligence (by mentioning above).  Because they don't buy a game/ show interest in buying a game, just by looking at a box-art. They first do their own search/ info gathering regarding the game, they want to buy.

Out of the topic: The article (your link) is based on MMOs, more specifically on EverQuest II. 

So, from what you're saying, it doesn't matter who's on the boxart then, because people will already know Shepard is customisable, so no harm in putting a female Shepard on the front. 

That said, I don't think many are advocating a change in marketing strategy. We're realistic, after all. All that we're asking for is an alternative cover. It could be in the form of a reversible cover, as suggested above.

@clonedzero: Don't go making gross generalisations like that, it's not doing your point any good.

Yes, if BW did that from the begin of the series. Now, since they have established the icon of the Shepard they won't change that.

Let us assume that BW used a female character in the box art from the begining. 

If your argument is true; that the gender of the character in box-art makes an impact on sales and the gender of the playable character is the most important factor when purchasing a game (otherwise, no point of arguing that there should be a female character in the cover), then there should be a huge sales impact on ME series, because the majority of the male gamers won't show interest in buying the game just because
they can't  play ME as a male character.  So BW has taken the right decision by selecting a male as the icon of Shepard (based on your argument ).

Now I wonder, is the mojority of Metroid gamers female? or male (if so they probably didn't manage to recognize the playing character as a female, because of the "female" shape body armor that wears by Samus Aran)? 

Modifié par snfonseka, 27 avril 2011 - 04:11 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

MGIII wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

MGIII wrote...

You say all that, then destroy your argument by citing that your female friends play Fable, a game which doesn't market the Hero as a female in any way. The only way you would know that you can choose a gender is by researching the game, which is the same situation for ME.

Except that Fable heavily featured the ability to play as female in its marketing. I know that I saw magazine pics of the female PC, and a lot of their coverage featured shots of the female character.

Also, Fable is a fantasy game. The cover is a soft-focus painting of someone in a fantasy setting, which is more similar to the cover of the JRPGs some of these girls are used to. It's easy to let your eye wander over from a copy of Final Fantasy XII to Fable and pick it up. Fantasy RPGs have been inviting girls in for longer than almost any other genre, so it's easy for them to imagine that a fantasy game might offer the same. With western space shooter games it's pretty much been go Samus or Go Home, as far as female progatonists go.

So... nope, Fable showed the female protag in marketing, and even if it didn't, it's not the same thing. Fable has the benefit that games that look like it almost always offer a female protagonist. Mass Effect has the problem that games that look like it almost never do.

On the game covers, magazine advertisements, and television commercial, I've always seen a male. Never a female. Perhaps if you go to blogs, websites, and magazine articles that would cover the game extensively, you'll see some shots of femHero (which is the same deal for ME, I might add), but unless you know about the game beyond its title (highly likely since you're on a blog/website covering the game), you would not know you could play as a female. I mean, if memory serves, you couldn't even be a female in the first Fable. 

Also, if you can use conjecture like: "well, it looks like you can play as a female because it's a fantasy game," I can use a much more common, factually backed notion like "well, Bioware makes ME, and it's an RPG, and considering all Bioware RPGs of the last decade have had gender options, this game will likely have it too."

Both of those conclusions are inferences, but I think the latter is more rational.

Really? And did you form your conclusion by talking to dozens and dozens of female gamers? Or by guessing? 

I know over a hundred female gamers. I don't know all of them well, some are just friends from blogs, or from networking, or whatever. But I can tell you this: a much larger percentage of them have played Fable than Mass Effect. Why? I can't tell you. And the number of girls who have played Fable is far, far fewer than the ones who have played Persona, or Final Fantasy X. I just threw in that girls sometimes play Fable as a bonus datapoint, because it's true. Something about the marketing in that, and the marketing for JRPGs (some of which don't even have a female protagonist, but convey that they offer something for females, whether it be cool female characters or just a different aesthetic).

My point is that fewer girls I know play Mass Effect than I would have predicted, especially given its literary Sci-Fi pedigree and really interesting relationship/romance options. It's actually really frustrating, it's why I had to come here to talk about Mass Effect rather than just chatting with my friends. What's more, most of the girls I know (outside these boards) who play Mass Effect play it because they watched someone else play it, and were shocked by what the game was like. "Ooooh, it's a game about talking and shooting, not just a game about shooting!" 

What's more, I know over a dozen girls who have played almost every Bioware RPG other than Mass Effect. Ok, for some of them, they didn't play ME out of protest because it doesn't have a same sex LI... I'll give you that. But for the rest of them, Mass Effect's marketing just never managed to convey that the game was "for" them, in the same way all the other Bioware RPGs did. I don't know exactly what marketing has to do better either, but I do know that they're missing something vital that every other Bioware RPG has hit.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 27 avril 2011 - 04:14 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

snfonseka wrote...

Yes, if BW did that from the begin of the series. Now, since they have established the icon of the Shepard they won't change that.

Let us assume that BW used a female character in the box art from the begining. 

If your argument is true; that the gender of the character in box-art makes an impact on sales and the gender of the playable character is the most important factor when purchasing a game (otherwise, no point of arguing that there should be a female character in the cover), then there should be a huge sales impact on ME series, because the majority of the male gamers won't show interest in buying the game just because
they can't  play ME as a male character.  So BW has taken the right decision by selecting a male as the icon of Shepard (based on your argument ).

Now I wonder, is the mojority of Metroid gamers female? or male (if so they probably didn't manage to recognize the playing character as a female, because of the "female" shape body armor that wears by Samus Aran)? 

You're missing the central point here. We think that Bioware could be getting a substantially larger part of the female gaming market. And one of the ways to get that market is to say "Hey girls, there's something here for you too!" in some way, via a marketing message. I agree that the majority of Mass Effect covers and marketing should feature Sheploo. But what if just 5% of the marketing featured Femshep TOO?

For instance, Half-life 2 had a variant cover with Alyx Vance on it. Alyx has become an icon of positive female characters in gaming. Offering this alternate cover doesn't seem to have hurt Halflife 2's sales figures.

We're not saying that having a female character on the cover is vital to having female gamers interested in a thing. We're saying that somewhere along the line, the marketing for Mass Effect has failed to engage female gamers as much as it could have, and doing an alternate cover similar to Half-Life 2's might help start bridging that gap.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 27 avril 2011 - 04:23 .

[ReinaHW]

Eradyn wrote...

Reversible covers are nice, but to really sell it you need to actually mention the option to play as a female on the box and in interviews/articles where appropriate. They want to use Sheploo's face? Fine, but at least stop acting like you are ashamed to include the option to play as a female.

I'm not sure what is more insulting, BW...indirectly stating your male player base (and potential customers) are that rip-roaringly, mind-numbingly stupid as to get confused at the mention or passing reference to a female protagonist option, or to act as if your inclusion of femshep is something you are ashamed of. As if being female is a horrifically awful thing to be that you can't even mention her.

I'll admit, I picked up ME1 later on, after learning via word-of-mouth that femshep was an honest, full-fledged option and the game was a space opera rpg. There are so many generic games with lead males that I am very particular about which I spend my money on...learning ME1 had a female protagonist option rocketed the game to the top of my list. If only I had learned earlier it was an option, I would not have waited. There are not many games that give you a fully fledged, respectable female option and I like to support games when they do that as it is so rare to find.

That's how it was for me, even after the excellent Knights Of The Old Republic with a female lead choice and the fun Jade Empire with a female lead choice, I was suspicious of Mass Effect when I heard about it because all I saw was some generic male who looked like the same tired male from 80s movies and games like Halo(yawn) and COD(double yawn) or some Rockstar male only nonsense with their never ending boring male only leads.
All information I found said nothing about choosing the gender, there were no pictures of a female look of Shepard so I bypassed it as yet another male only generio shooter with nothing new to offer.

It was only by sheer luck that I saw one little bit of information saying, and it was something that was so easily missed, saying - Players can choose the male and female option for Shepard in the character creation - and I was interested.
Bought the game on release and made my first Shepard - Reina Shepard - and was hooked from the first hour.  I tried playing as male Shepard and I was bored to tears at the terrible voice acting for him and how bland he was.  Hale did and does a much better job than Meer does, at least she adds some inflection to the female Shepard while Meer sounds like he can't be bothered.

Now if they had shown some generic made, doesn't have to be incredible, just a generic appearance, female Shepard on the cover, ever in a picture on the back or on the front or something, and in some pre-release pictures and a trailer, than I wouldn't have passed it by like I did.
After years of action heroes more often than not being the bland, hum drum male and very few, and very rare female heroes then even the most well informed gamer would still make the same mistake due to the female choice - if that's been added in since it's so rare to have gender choice in games - without any actual information saying otherwise.

A single sentence in the first annoucement would say a lot, anything instead of dismissing the choice to play as female in a game because of some outdated male attitude towards the idea of a female character.
We're not saying 'Be rid of all male leads' we're just saying that female leads in a game should be better represented in a more respectful manner and to see more playable female characters in games instead of even less.

Gaming isn't a male only thing, it never has been, it's only enforced as such by narrow minded marketers and insecure males who hate the idea of female gamers because they fear that there won't be action, when in fact there are plenty of female gamers who quite enjoy the chance for some action in games.

[JohnnyRingo25]

I'm not a "Femshep" player so rather she is marketed or not really doesn't mean much to me. I'm fine with the marketing for the Mass Effect series as it stands and at this point, I see little reason to change it. I've actually never seen such an uproar over something that at the end of the day is really small. However, I think a good idea that may satisfy everyone is making a cover that is a lenticular hologram like the 20th Anniversary Transformers: The Movie cover from 2006. Move it to the left and it's Optimus, move it to the right and now it's Rodimus. This way the default Shepard remains in the advertising, as he should and the female Shepard gets some shine as well. But they would need a face model for her in order to make it seem genuine as I feel the default "Femshep" face just won't cut it. However, I doubt EA will front the money for anything other than a standard ME3 cover and a Special Edition cover; this is the way EA and most companies have marketed for years now...

[lolwut666]

What you're all saying is bollocks.

The reason why the gaming market is, as you understand it, aimed at men is because men play more video games than woman.

Now, I know what you're thinking: "That's obvious, duh!"

But that's precisely the point. Until women make themselves customers, game developers won't bother making female-oriented advertisements because they'd rather target the larger audience simply because it's safer.

Instead of acting like spoiled brats and demanding that the devs conform themselves to your wishes, you should try getting more females into video games. Once the female market is expressive enough, what you want will come around naturally.

Patience is the word.