19 réponses à ce sujet

[Wrexster]

 So during Zaeed's loyalty mission you are given the choice to either save the people from dying or follow Zaeed's wishes and go straight after Vido. On every playthrough I've gone after Vido fearing that if I picked the wrong option I would lose his loyalty (Jack vs Miranda in the normandy still burns in the back of my mind from my very first playthrough). So, what happens if you save the people? Do you still get Vido? Is Zaeed still loyal?

[Chewin]

You save the people, Vido escapes, and if you have enough paragon points, he's loyal

[Fat Headed Wolf]

You can save them then I believe you have a couple option (no quoting me, though. I'm not entirely sure). Zaeed gets pissed and nearly kills you before being pinned beneath a beam. What follows is your choice--

1st-- You can help him up without gaining his loyalty. He'll stay with you just to get his payday.

2nd-- You can help him up after convincing him that the mission is more important that his vendettas. Thus gaining his loyalty (I believe the only way to do this is through charm, so you need the appropriate--albeit vague--level of Paragon)

3rd-- I think (not sure) you can leave him there to die in the explosion.

[Fat Headed Wolf]

^ Well, there you go. I was wrong. Despite what my mommy said, I'm not perfect. Hope I'll still be president, though.

[Dean_the_Young]

wiggles89 wrote...

It's one of the more annoying aspects of the game. You should only gain Zaeed's loyalty if you go after Vido.

Also one of the more blatant paragon copouts.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Unless your Paragon bar is high enough, you won't gain Zaeed's loyalty if you choose to save the workers. Going after Vido, on the other hand, automatically makes him loyal, and gives you a handy assault rifle damage upgrade!

Modifié par Fiery Phoenix, 26 avril 2011 - 02:05 .

[Mykel54]

In my games i avoid those paragon/renegade dialogues and i find the game end up more realistic, for example by being unable to get the best result in Tali loyalty unless you rally the crowd (requering prerequisites in other missions), or unable to make everyone happy in the conflicts between jack/miranda or legion/tali, or in this case, choosing between helping Zaeed or saving innocents. This also helps in the suicide mission, as when you assign some role to someone who is unloyal then people die. I recommend giving it a try for those that want a shepard that is more down to earth.

[Eudaemonium]

I always go after Vido because I'm an Assault Rifle ***** and need that extra +10% damage.

[Thompson family]

wiggles89 wrote...

It's one of the more annoying aspects of the game. You should only gain Zaeed's loyalty if you go after Vido.

I disagree. Althought he "trapped by the beam" thing is cheesy, Shep's remarks to Zaeed that you let your personal goals sidetrack the mission is actually one of Shep's better points in any of the loyalty missions.

[FlyinElk212]

Thompson family wrote...

wiggles89 wrote...

It's one of the more annoying aspects of the game. You should only gain Zaeed's loyalty if you go after Vido.

I disagree. Althought he "trapped by the beam" thing is cheesy, Shep's remarks to Zaeed that you let your personal goals sidetrack the mission is actually one of Shep's better points in any of the loyalty missions.

Perhaps. But the Mass Effect trilogy's main draw has been character choices, and the difficulty/moral grayness of said choices. The extremely personal experience gained through those difficult choices is what sets apart Mass Effect from other RPGs/Shooters.

Therefore, why is Bioware providing an "everyone wins!" option in the first place? If ME1 had the option to save both Ashley AND Kaidan, then what was the point of choosing between them? It's the difficult decisions like those that really define Mass Effect's emotional gaming experience.

Stuff like Zaeed's loyalty mission really should've been, save the colonists, or earn Zaeed's loyalty. No cheap trump card options. Same w/ Tali's loyalty mission, it really should've been, get Tali exiled for her loyalty, or get her exonerated at the expense of her loyalty.

Modifié par FlyinElk212, 26 avril 2011 - 03:42 .

[CroGamer002]

wiggles89 wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

wiggles89 wrote...

It's one of the more annoying aspects of the game. You should only gain Zaeed's loyalty if you go after Vido.

Also one of the more blatant paragon copouts.

That's the main reason why I think it's annoying.

So I have to be complete and utter douchebag to have Zaeed loyalty then?

Zaeed can then f*ck himself if that really happen.
Fortunately, it didn't.

[AdmiralCheez]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

wiggles89 wrote...

It's one of the more annoying aspects of the game. You should only gain Zaeed's loyalty if you go after Vido.

Also one of the more blatant paragon copouts.

That would mean that only renegades get Zaeed's loyalty, which would be unfair.  Every other loyalty quest can be solved equally well by both sides.

Not a cop-out, but an alternative.

Besides, Vido's still out there raising hell.  That can't be good.

[FlyinElk212]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...

wiggles89 wrote...

It's one of the more annoying aspects of the game. You should only gain Zaeed's loyalty if you go after Vido.

Also one of the more blatant paragon copouts.

That would mean that only renegades get Zaeed's loyalty, which would be unfair.  Every other loyalty quest can be solved equally well by both sides.

Not a cop-out, but an alternative.

I mentioned this in my previous post, but that idea could be solved by offering other loyalty missions in which the opposite scenario exists, or ony Paragons can receive X squadmate's loyalty.

Ex., if Zaeed's loyalty could only be gained by a Renegade (makes sense considering Zaeed's character), then perhaps Tali's loyalty, which ALSO provides an "everyone wins!" option, can only be gained by a Paragon (saying you have no evidence, and getting Tali exiled).

I'm all for fairness, but not at the expense of cheapening what should be difficult decisions.

Modifié par FlyinElk212, 26 avril 2011 - 03:55 .

[Thompson family]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Perhaps. But the Mass Effect trilogy's main draw has been character choices, and the difficulty/moral grayness of said choices. The extremely personal experience gained through those difficult choices is what sets apart Mass Effect from other RPGs/Shooters.

Therefore, why is Bioware providing an "everyone wins!" option in the first place? If ME1 had the option to save both Ashley AND Kaidan, then what was the point of choosing between them? It's the difficult decisions like those that really define Mass Effect's emotional gaming experience.

Stuff like Zaeed's loyalty mission really should've been, save the colonists, or earn Zaeed's loyalty. No cheap trump card options. Same w/ Tali's loyalty mission, it really should've been, get Tali exiled for her loyalty, or get her exonerated at the expense of her loyalty.

While I don't agree in this case — letting a bunch of innocent people burn just to gain one merc's loyalty wouldn't have been a choice at all for my Shep, much less a tough one — there were some pretty glaring "you can have it all" situations.

My "favorite" in this category is when I take Grunt on Mordin's loyalty mission. There was a confrontation between Grunt and Mordin scripted at one point. We know that from unused audio files.

[Clonedzero]

i always save the people, you can still get his loyalty but im pretty sure you gotta pass a paragon/renegade check at the end when he's freaking out.

[Eudaemonium]

FlyinElk212 wrote...

Ex., if Zaeed's loyalty could only be gained by a Renegade (makes sense considering Zaeed's character), then perhaps Tali's loyalty, which ALSO provides an "everyone wins!" option, can only be gained by a Paragon (saying you have no evidence, and getting Tali exiled)

I agree with this, though I also think you should have had the 'Rally the Crowd' option. I think having an 'I win' option that requires certain prerequisites in certain situations is okay. Unfortunately, I think Tali's trial is the only time when this exists. I generally dislike the 'oh, a blue option' or 'oh, a red option' which you know is going to work 900% of teh time in any situation.

[Mykel54]

There are places where having paragon/renegade option makes sense, like when talking with the reporter, if you don´t use those options then she manages to make shepard look bad (thought you can always punch your way across). It is only quests like the zaeed loyalty where, in addition to a choice, you are given a paragon/renegade way to get the best result, i think that takes away from the choice in the first place. Fortunately those options are not compulsory, and you can always roleplay your own shepard.