243 réponses à ce sujet

[Maverick827]

Haexpane wrote...

Someone else said RPG games are defined by "roleplaying" which has no meaning in terms of videogame genres.

It's funny because he's stumbled on to the point without realizing it.

[Shadowbanner]

randName wrote...

It's more of an ARPG than a cRPG that's for sure - hardly any choices and almost everything in the game is built around the live action combat element, and even if you can pause it feels like a hindsight.

& While you can pick your mannerism and build a role in part, but then you have a similar option (albeit simpler) in saint's row that allows you to pick from three different VO sets, much like what you get in DA2. And in the end you can hardly build character since you never have to take any decisions, you just bob along the railroaded path to glory, much like most ARPGs and pure action games like GTA IV or Saint's row (that often offers more freedom in how you go about it).

And the D2 got as much tactics when it comes to combat, but does it better.

Not saying ARPGs are bad, or that DA2 is horrid - its a decent game I think, but wouldn't call it an cRPG.


EDIT. that said most cRPGs got action in it (save TB games), it's just a question if we should call it an ARPG or not based upon the amount of emphasis that is placed on the action part, and I don't like it when people use ARPG as an insult as there are several good role playing games based upon realtime action/combat.

Then DA:O was already leaning over so heavily into the action part that I was close to calling that a ARPG instead of soley a cRPG. (FONV for example I wouldn't call a ARPG since action is volentary and you can go through the game without fighting).

DA2 is definitely an ARPG, not a cRPG.

[Stegoceras]

Aaleel wrote...

Volourn wrote...

"They marketed it as an Action-Rpg"

No.

Then again, you probably think games like POR1, BG, IWD, TOEE, NWN, and KOTOR are Action RPGs as well. L0LZ

http://www.g4tv.com/...Access-Preview/

Happy watching.

I just want to point this one out again, for people seem to disregard it.

If the boss says it's an Action-rpg, who are we to doubt him. Whether it has or has not succeeded at it, this is what Bioware envisioned. Thus it must be an action-rpg.

Modifié par Stegoceras, 26 avril 2011 - 07:42 .

[fchopin]

Its an action comedy.

[Nozybidaj]

Haexpane wrote...
Halo 1 is an RPG because we "roleplayed" Master Chief?  No, it's not.

Halo 1 is NOT an RPG because we generally agree on the broad strokes of what makes an RPG VIDEOGAME genre.

LOL, might as well quit while you can.  I was told on this very forum that Tiger Woods Golf can be considered an rpg since you can play as Tiger Woods.

[AkiKishi]

What makes arcade adventure combat different from RPG combat is this. The skill of the character modifies the skill of the player.
Action RPG is just an RPG with a lot of combat and very few options to avoid it.

Diablo is an action RPG it still has a character that can radically alter how you play the game because of the characters abilities.
DA2 is probably closer to an action RPG because there are very few occasions where you won't end up knee deep in corpses.

Nozybidaj wrote...
LOL, might as well quit while you can.  I was told on this very forum that Tiger Woods Golf can be considered an rpg since you can play as Tiger Woods.

Not as stupid as it might sound since the golfers have individual statistics as do any golfers you create. They also earn experience and upgrade gear. It's certainly not traditional RPG faire, but all the elements are there. Although there is no "story" you create your own through the tournaments you attend. What is ultimately missing though is an after career report. If they built it along similiar lines to "Pirates" that would do it.

Master Chief on the other hand is only as good as the person playing him. That makes it not an RPG.

Modifié par BobSmith101, 26 avril 2011 - 08:14 .

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

BobSmith101 wrote...
Master Chief on the other hand is only as good as the person playing him. That makes it not an RPG.

To a degree, this is a characteristic of every RPG, computer or tabletop.  The player decides on a build (where bad choices can typically gimp the character), and then decides what tactics should be used in conflict resolution.  Even identical builds do not guarantee similar results.

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

Haexpane wrote...
Halo 1 is NOT an RPG because we generally agree on the broad strokes of what makes an RPG VIDEOGAME genre.

I don't think there's anything close to a consensus on what defines an RPG video game.  I think it's interesting that you think there is a sort of general agreement, though, because your assertion that gameplay defines the RPG without regard to story and characterization appear to be at the extreme end of at least one axis in the discussion.

[Guldor]

Scimal wrote...

Guldor wrote...

Sarcasm?
Im only saying i was using the wrong point of reference to compare it. Not being an RPG like DAO but more like Diablo, I can see why people like it.

I'll put it this way.

I completely disagree that DA2 is closer to Diablo than DA:O, and also find the wikipedia entries to be laughable because they're so similar that you might as well lump them together 95% of the time.

However, you're not here to stir trouble (despite whatever biases you make obvious), so I won't take too much issue as long as you're trying to understand.

Some keywords are different in the wikipedia entries though which makes me go more towards Diablo.
Cool avatar btw.

[gotthammer]

fchopin wrote...

Its an action comedy.

Hehehe, I guess 'this'.
I was definitely laughing during the final 'boss fight' (primarily at how absurd and/or 'over-the-top' it looked).

[Haexpane]

Maverick827 wrote...

Haexpane wrote...

Someone else said RPG games are defined by "roleplaying" which has no meaning in terms of videogame genres.

It's funny because he's stumbled on to the point without realizing it.

No, first of all there is nothing "funny" about it, and your thinly veiled
trollish attacks are both lazy and redundant. If you are going to insult people
around here, you need to put in more effort

Modifié par Haexpane, 26 avril 2011 - 08:59 .

[Haexpane]

BobSmith101 wrote...

What makes arcade adventure combat different from RPG combat is this. The skill of the character modifies the skill of the player.
Action RPG is just an RPG with a lot of combat and very few options to avoid it.

Diablo is an action RPG it still has a character that can radically alter how you play the game because of the characters abilities.
DA2 is probably closer to an action RPG because there are very few occasions where you won't end up knee deep in corpses.

Nozybidaj wrote...
LOL, might as well quit while you can.  I was told on this very forum that Tiger Woods Golf can be considered an rpg since you can play as Tiger Woods.

Not as stupid as it might sound since the golfers have individual statistics as do any golfers you create. They also earn experience and upgrade gear. It's certainly not traditional RPG faire, but all the elements are there. Although there is no "story" you create your own through the tournaments you attend. What is ultimately missing though is an after career report. If they built it along similiar lines to "Pirates" that would do it.

Master Chief on the other hand is only as good as the person playing him. That makes it not an RPG.

Well that is the Penny-Arcade slant.  "everything is using RPG gameplay because it's cool" argument.
It's true, for Multiplayer games that use leveling to some extent.

But what we are talking about specifically are "traditional" RPG genres for single player games.

Action RPG is a SUB GENRE of RPGs. which is just as loose as cRPGs or WRPGs.

Sadly, if the only thing stopping Halo from being an RPG is that Master Blaster has no stats... we are doomed.

[Haexpane]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

Haexpane wrote...
Halo 1 is NOT an RPG because we generally agree on the broad strokes of what makes an RPG VIDEOGAME genre.

I don't think there's anything close to a consensus on what defines an RPG video game.  I think it's interesting that you think there is a sort of general agreement, though, because your assertion that gameplay defines the RPG without regard to story and characterization appear to be at the extreme end of at least one axis in the discussion.

We actually DO agree on the gameplay aspects as to what makes an RPG.  In the broadest of strokes.

Here is an example, Final Fantasy X has NO CHOICES to make at all, you are LOCKED into playing as Tidus and sitting back and watching his gimp story about whining about his drunk daddy and soccer.

But FFX is without question an RPG< because it uses JRPG tropes and gameplay mechanics. There is NO DOUBT in anyone's mind what genre FFX is.

Then along comes someone on the internet and says "Zelda is an RPG!" and then mentions leveling up, changing gear, a story, "playing the role of link" immersion, etc...

And we look at that and say flatly "Zelda is not an RPG"  DESPITE the bullet points of how it is SORT OF an RPG. and even tho many of those bullet points make a lot of sense, and on PAPER Zelda sort of is an RPG...

But if you play Zelda, it's not an RPG, it doesnt feel like one, it just doesnt quite fit what we "generally accept" is an RPG.

On that note, Publishers and Developers could NOT CARE LESS about genres.  They want to be the next Justin Bieber and don't care about anything but "brand" and "growing the base"

[Merced652]

No bad-rpg option?

[AkiKishi]

Tantum Dic Verbo wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...
Master Chief on the other hand is only as good as the person playing him. That makes it not an RPG.

To a degree, this is a characteristic of every RPG, computer or tabletop.  The player decides on a build (where bad choices can typically gimp the character), and then decides what tactics should be used in conflict resolution.  Even identical builds do not guarantee similar results.

I'll use one of my favourites here. Take an FPS and insert the character into the last level. As long as your abilities as a player are up to the task you will be able to complete the game. Try that with an RPG and you will fail no matter how good you are.
We do goof around with low level challenges, read any of the FF's on gamefaqs for example. But likewise if you level enough you should also win very easily.

[Romantiq]

fchopin wrote...

Its an action comedy.

Must include Dane Cook then since its not funny

[Nasabe]

Well, to simplify one should ask the question what is a Role Playing Game?

Does it require to level up and unlock abilites? Does it require 20 sided dice rolls to calculate damage etc.? Do you need orc and +5 axes to hack 'em?

Having played the table-top role playing games, and having been playing video games since dx486 I consider myself somewhat equipped to answer that question:

My answer would be it's none of those things I listed above are requirements to be a role playing game. The only requirement for an RPG is pretty self explanatory really.. to play a role that is of your own choosing.

According to my understanding of the genre, DA2 is very much a RPG. Moreso than any of the other games mentioned. No video-game can be as vast in scope as table-top so.. Although the storytelling is stronger the choice of your own role is somewhat limited. But you get to choose within that role (did sound like Arishok didn't it? Shows how unbiased I am =) )

[AlanC9]

BobSmith101 wrote...
I'll use one of my favourites here. Take an FPS and insert the character into the last level. As long as your abilities as a player are up to the task you will be able to complete the game. Try that with an RPG and you will fail no matter how good you are. 
We do goof around with low level challenges, read any of the FF's on gamefaqs for example. But likewise if you level enough you should also win very easily.

This is only true for an RPG that ends with a combat challenge, or a skill challenge that a low-level character can't possibly beat

[Anathemic]

DA2 is not even worthy of the action rpg title, compare it to action rpgs like Diablo and Dungeon Siege, DA2 sucks.

[Haexpane]

Romantiq wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Its an action comedy.

Must include Dane Cook then since its not funny

Yet Cook still sells out stadiums.  I actually watched one of his HBO specials, and good lord, he doesn't even tell jokes.  His "big ending joke" was a lazy story about how he wishes
Atheists would be reincarnated into trees, which would be cut down and used for
bibles, ... Crowd ERUPTED like he just hit the winning
shot of a NBA playoff  game.

I sat there wondering, "how is this guy a comedian, he hasn't told a joke in 30 minutes, just pandering stories"

[Haexpane]

AlanC9 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...
I'll use one of my favourites here. Take an FPS and insert the character into the last level. As long as your abilities as a player are up to the task you will be able to complete the game. Try that with an RPG and you will fail no matter how good you are. 
We do goof around with low level challenges, read any of the FF's on gamefaqs for example. But likewise if you level enough you should also win very easily.

This is only true for an RPG that ends with a combat challenge, or a skill challenge that a low-level character can't possibly beat

Or if it's Oblivion and horribly level scaled such that the END GAME BOSS is easier at level 7 than level 40

[Tantum Dic Verbo]

AlanC9 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...
I'll use one of my favourites here. Take an FPS and insert the character into the last level. As long as your abilities as a player are up to the task you will be able to complete the game. Try that with an RPG and you will fail no matter how good you are. 
We do goof around with low level challenges, read any of the FF's on gamefaqs for example. But likewise if you level enough you should also win very easily.

This is only true for an RPG that ends with a combat challenge, or a skill challenge that a low-level character can't possibly beat

And for an RPG that uses levelling.  The bildungsroman thing isn't a necessary element, either.

Anyway, I see what you're saying, and I agree.  But I also say that this is a continuum, not a toggle.  Player skill will always have a determining effect on a character's success, although the character's build should have a lot to say about it, too.  One of my personal feelings about RPG's is that they are games.  I believe that story and character are essential, but I think that there are a wide variety of ways to play them.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Dragon Age is a very cinematic Action RPG imo.

Not like that's a bad thing, really. I mean, the Icewind Dale games were Action RPGs and no one gives them slack for not being "true" RPGs.

Don't get why it's supposed to be a negative term. Even games like New Vegas, Witcher and Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines are Action RPGs. I loved all those games and many RPG fans do. Not to mention the Gothic/Risen games.

I see an Action RPG as an RPG with either a focus on combat with little deviation as the primary gameplay device. Even though Origins had a lot of combat for example, you could still use other skills that mattered from a gameplay perspective. Persuasion, Intimidation, Stealing, Crafting, etc. DA 2 is either dialogue (with no character skills) or combat.

Or a combat system that focuses on player skill above character skill. This is where games like VtmB, Witcher and New Vegas fall. Depsite having depth in it's RPG elements, the player > character or player = character combat system is not the player < character system which RPGs traditionally have.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 27 avril 2011 - 12:24 .

[Anathemic]

mrcrusty wrote...

Dragon Age is a very cinematic Action RPG imo.

Not like that's a bad thing, really. I mean, the Icewind Dale games were Action RPGs and no one gives them slack for not being "true" RPGs.

Don't get why it's supposed to be a negative term. Even games like New Vegas, Witcher and Vampire: The Masquerade - Bloodlines are Action RPGs. I loved all those games and many RPG fans do. Not to mention the Gothic/Risen games.

Like I said before, the problem is that DA2 tries to be 2 polar opposites, tactical and action RPG, and failing msierably at both. If you try to hold up DA2 to action rpgs such as Diablo and Dungeon Siege, it will be ridiculed to hell.

[Chromie]

Romantiq wrote...

fchopin wrote...

Its an action comedy.

Must include Dane Cook then since its not funny

Very true.