11 réponses à ce sujet

[yaw]

I'm doing a new playthrough, but I can't decide what I want to do with Andraste's ashes.

In my first playthrough, I was intent on being decent. I agreed to defile the ashes to get past Kolgrim, but when it came to it I let the ashes be and killed Kolgrim on the way back.
However... then I had the problem of Genitivi. I don't like the Chantry and the religion, and I would prefer that the ashes remianed a secret instead of everyone finding out and the Chantry gaining more power because of them. But to do this, I had to stick a knife in the back of Genitivi's head... and I ended up deciding to let Genitivi go.

Now in my next playthrough, I don't want to do the same. I still want to be decent, not evil, but I don't want the ashes to become a pilgrim site.
Is destroying the ashes, while killing Kolgrim anyway, really an evil thing to do? I know Leliana gets pissed off, which I really don't care about... but I'm confused about why Wynne acts so strongly. Either she's just as religious, or destroying the ashes is an evil thing? Even if, as Ogren explains, they're probably just lyrium infused and not holy?

Also, how does killing the High Dragon change the story, if at all?

[Costin_Razvan]

How Wynne sees an action does not mean said action is immoral.

Wynne is an idiot.

Killing the High Dragon doesn't change the story, but it just doesn't give any sort of benefits to actually defile the Ashes since you do lose Wynne and possibly Leliana.

[yaw]

I heard that killing the dragon or not affects the Chantry's expedition. If not killing the dragon means I can leave the ashes undefiled and let Genitivi go without the Chantry getting the ashes, that'll be the best ending.

And I'm not looking for benefits, I just want to shape the story how I wish.

Modifié par yaw, 26 avril 2011 - 06:37 .

[Costin_Razvan]

Leaving the Dragon be means that it will destroy the Ashes itself eventually.

[danerman]

I agree 100% about the importance of not allowing the Urn of Sacred Ashes to get in the hands of the Chantry. On most playthroughs I'll end up killing a defenseless man for the greater good. I have also defiled the ashes in the past which to me is an honorable route but the repercussions make the game less fun for me. It is very realistic that this action comes with such a high price, religion and symbolism have had a strong grip on the human psyche throughout history.

On my current playthough I am not defiling the ashes, letting Genetivi live but also not killing the High Dragon. Probably the nicest way to not let the Chantry have the ashes though I do feel there is a bit of metagaming going on because there's no way my character would know the peaceful dragon sleeping on the mountaintop would get a wild hair and destroy the temple. I justify this course of action because my character just chose the "nice" thing to do every opportunity in Haven. She did not defile the ashes because she knew it'd upset her good friend Leliana, she just could not get herself to kill a defenseless old man, and she was unwilling to kill a dragon that meant her no harm.

[GSSAGE7]

Even if it's not holy, it's more the symbolism that's important, and I believe Wynne says as such. Personally, I let him tell him, because the Gauntlet is still there. The Guardian is still there. I imagine it isn't going to be easy for just any random schmuck to saunter in, so at the very least, the ashes aren't going to be used up any time soon.

[Dayfax]

I'm curious if you convinced the Revered Mother to give the troops defending Redcliffe the Maker symbols, giving them a false belief they were protected from the undead.

If you did that, and then go on to destroy the Ashes and kill Genitivi, then it seems to me you're just as guilty as the Chantry, ie: using religion to manipulate people into doing what you want or need them to do.

I keep thinking of what Duncan said to Alistair after you returned from the Kokari Wilds: "Chantry business is not ours."

[yaw]

Leaving the ashes, leaving the dragon and leaving Genitivi seems like the best option then. Still, as mentioned, it's hard to reason why my Warden would let the dragon live except her somehow knowing that it would destroy the ashes. Oh well.

Dayfax wrote...

I'm curious if you convinced the Revered Mother to give the troops defending Redcliffe the Maker symbols, giving them a false belief they were protected from the undead.

If you did that, and then go on to destroy the Ashes and kill Genitivi, then it seems to me you're just as guilty as the Chantry, ie: using religion to manipulate people into doing what you want or need them to do. 

In my first playthrough, yes I did. And that's actually a really good point.
I think I'll have to disapoint the troops this time around. 

Also another thing I did was let the dwarf girl study in the tower, which in hindsight was a bad idea due to the resulting Exalted March. Perhaps this time my Warden will just have to ignore her or listen to her father.

I keep thinking of what Duncan said to Alistair after you returned from the Kokari Wilds: "Chantry business is not ours." 

But I don't want my Warden's actions to help the Chantry. She won't go out of her way to involve herself in Chantry buisness, but will try to avoid accidently helping them during the questing.

Modifié par yaw, 27 avril 2011 - 01:08 .

[danerman]

yaw wrote...


Also another thing I did was let the dwarf girl study in the tower, which in hindsight was a bad idea due to the resulting Exalted March. Perhaps this time my Warden will just have to ignore her or listen to her father.

I agree in most cases this is a bad thing to do if you read the epilogue.  However if your character's goal is to weaken the Chantry at all costs, it might not be a bad move.  The theory here is to make Bhelen king and save the anvil of the void, giving Orzamaar it's strongest candidate for ruler and a stronger army to back him up.  Then help Dagna join the circle.  The result is that the mages get a circle outside the control of the Chantry which to me is very good for them and if the Chantry decides to go ahead with an exalted march tthey will be in for a serious fight.  The result especially if the mages in Orzamaar and the Golems help the cause is a serious weakening of the Chantry's army.  This could be like the United State's fight in Vietnam, they may not even be able to stomach the loses they are taking and have to pull out.  Even if they win the fight, it'll severly weaken their forces.  It is not a nice thing to do to the Dwarves though and most of my characters would not willingly allow such a thing to happen.  But there is no way for my character to know that the Circle would actually have the balls to make a circle outside the control of the Chantry just because my character helped a sweet girl get her wish.   Also it seems kind of irresponsible of the Dwarves to allow them to do that considering the obvious reprocussions.  

[Ferretinabun]

Killing the dragon does indeed change the epilogue. In this case expeditions to find the urn are unsucessful (I always read that as - the dragon kills them). Eventually the dragon leaves, but not before it destroys the temple, and the ashes fall into myth once more. If that sounds more appealing...?

[Satyricon331]

If you don't bring Genitivi with you to the mountain (you tell him to go back to Denerim when you first find him) then the Ashes won't become a pilgrimage site even if you kill both Kolgrim and the dragon.

Also another thing I did was let the dwarf girl study in the tower, which in hindsight was a bad idea due to the resulting Exalted March. Perhaps this time my Warden will just have to ignore her or listen to her father.

As I recall, even the epilogue slide says those are just rumors of a plan, or the Divine contemplating it, or something. The idea of an exalted march against the dwarves seems like such a stretch given in DA2 there's no mention of it (and given how they only really have 6ish years to have one before they have bigger problems), and I thought the rumors were implausible even before DA2 came out. Plus, the official line is that the epilogue slides themselves are rumors... so if you buy that, then it's just a rumor that there's a rumor.

[maxernst]

Costin_Razvan wrote...

Leaving the Dragon be means that it will destroy the Ashes itself eventually.

We don't actually know that the Dragon destroys the Ashes, only that they're no longer there.