375 réponses à ce sujet

[Blacklash93]

Abramis brama wrote...

There's not buts in this. Shepards not gay. Period.

Nope.

[Omega-202]

Blacklash93 wrote...

I'm not given a ton of choices in DA2 either, but Hawke can still be gay. There's no problem with it at all.

People can view Shepard however they please. There are dynamics in his basic personality already and sexuality isn't a far cry from that at all.

Because Hawke was written as such.  They decided that was part of the character.  If they'd decided that Shepard was bisexual from the start and depicted him as such, I'd have no problem.  Heck, I wouldn't even have a big problem with them introducing a new male love interest for male Shepard and make the argument that he was never given a M-M relationship because there were no interested companions.  

I'd ask "why didn't the alien males make a pass at him" because as previously said xenophilia would seem to make homosexuality a relative non-issue, but that's a whole extra bag of worms.

But to retcon it and make current LI's now bisexual is very much ridiculous.  At no point has the idea of a bisexual or homosexual male Shepard ever been hinted at and the same goes for all male companions.  And its not as if they couldn't have made such a fact apparent.  You get shot-down by Samara pretty handily so the idea of Shepard coming on to an uninterested party was something they obviously considered.  

And to the idea of "people can view Shepard however they please" that's just something I don't believe is valid.  People are multifaceted and the choices we make are not always consistent with someone's narrow view.  Shepard is the same way.  All possible choices can easily be wrapped into a single cohesive character.  Shepard is Shepard and there are very few choices in the games that can be called categorically "out of character".  Every choice that we make as Shepard has another side that can be rationalized.    

Modifié par Omega-202, 26 avril 2011 - 09:42 .

[Centauri2002]

ReconTeam wrote...

I fail to see how what one could argue to be hot lesbian action is a justification for gay manshep.

It isn't. It's a rebuttal to the argument that gay people cannot be action heroes. And there's absolutely no difference between a straight hero, a lesbian hero and a gay male hero. Sexuality does not effect how heroic a person can be. 

[Ashira Shepard]

centauri2002 wrote...
Those people? I'm not a fan of the show, I just know how to read an article. Lucy Lawless herself admitted to it. And they kissed in the series. Come on... get your head out of your ass.

Fix'd that for ya...

*ahem* 

How is it possible that FemShep is totally not gay if she goes with an Asari (despite them looking exactly like highly attractive females) yet if ManShepard goes with an Asari, he is totally straight?

There's a balance here, if Manshep's LI makes him out as a "straight man" then Femshep going after the exact same LI would peg her gay wouldn't it?

[Blacklash93]

ReconTeam wrote...

I fail to see how what one could argue to be hot lesbian action is a justification for gay manshep.

The double standard in Shepard's sexuality is the problem.

If Bioware never used the pre-denfined excuse, a lot of these arguments would have never happended.

[Abramis brama]

centauri2002 wrote...

Abramis brama wrote...

Oh god, you are one of those people.

Those people? I'm not a fan of the show, I just know how to read an article. Lucy Lawless herself admitted to it. And they kissed in the series. Come on... get your head out of the sand.

I'm not arguing. I just remembered all the fanfiction and completely mental posts I have seen about this back in 2000 something.

The horror...

[Ryzaki]

Omega-202 wrote...

Everything is in character for Shepard to say.  You have the option to say it, its in character.

Right. We're not going to get anywhere with each other because the two of us have very different views on how the dialogue wheel is supposed to be used. Have a nice day.   

[Abramis brama]

AshiraShepard wrote...

How is it possible that FemShep is totally not gay if she goes with an Asari (despite them looking exactly like highly attractive females) yet if ManShepard goes with an Asari, he is totally straight?

There's a balance here, if Manshep's LI makes him out as a "straight man" then Femshep going after the exact same LI would peg her gay wouldn't it?

Because Asari are not female. It's alien relationship for both male and female Shepards.

[Centauri2002]

JRBreason wrote...

Well......not trying to be a dick.....but these don't count. I'm talking about world recognized people, not people from low popularity tv shows that aren't in existent today. I could just be me though, but I never heard of the witch blade, fear effect, legend of the seeker, or xena; i didn't know batwoman or batgirl, was a lesbian. 

I'm talking a bigger scale here. Hand Solo, Spiderman, Batman, Superman, damn near every DC or Marvel character that's been on the big screen, any movie where arnold is in. Any action movie with bruce willis, or stallone. Captain Kirk, the dude from avatar, so on and so forth. 

Then you just need to be more widely read. Because most of those were popular shows. Just because you don't know Batwoman is a lesbian, doesn't mean she isn't. It doesn't matter if a television show has ten million viewers or a million, it doesn't invalidate the characters involved.

You're talking about those because it backs up your point. One which is irrelevant because the restrictions on a hero's sexuality is imposed because of societal views. Not because gayness limits heroicness. If you're saying we conform to this outdated notion, then I'd say you keep on reading those comic books from the 50s.

[Blacklash93]

Omega-202 wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

I'm not given a ton of choices in DA2 either, but Hawke can still be gay. There's no problem with it at all.

People can view Shepard however they please. There are dynamics in his basic personality already and sexuality isn't a far cry from that at all.

Because Hawke was written as such.  They decided that was part of the character.  If they'd decided that Shepard was bisexual from the start and depicted him as such, I'd have no problem.  Heck, I wouldn't even have a big problem with them introducing a new male love interest for male Shepard and make the argument that he was never given a M-M relationship because there were no interested companions.  

I'd ask "why didn't the alien males make a pass at him" because as previously said xenophilia would seem to make homosexuality a relative non-issue, but that's a whole extra bag of worms.

But to retcon it and make current LI's now bisexual is very much ridiculous.  At no point has the idea of a bisexual or homosexual male Shepard ever been hinted at and the same goes for all male companions.  And its not as if they couldn't have made such a fact apparent.  You get shot-down by Samara pretty handily so the idea of Shepard coming on to an uninterested party was something they obviously considered.  

And to the idea of "people can view Shepard however they please" that's just something I don't believe is valid.  People are multifaceted and the choices we make are not always consistent with someone's narrow view.  Shepard is the same way.  All possible choices can easily be wrapped into a single cohesive character.  Shepard is Shepard and there are very few choices in the games that can be called categorically "out of character".  Every choice that we make as Shepard has another side that can be rationalized.    

And what makes you think that Shepard was never meant to have a gay option? What makes you think giving him one now would hurt character in any way? Shepard shows no romantic interest in anyone unless prompted. Nothing was hinted at in the first place.

There's no other reason than Bioware simply refusing to do it up to this point.

Modifié par Blacklash93, 26 avril 2011 - 09:50 .

[Centauri2002]

Abramis brama wrote...

centauri2002 wrote...

Abramis brama wrote...

Oh god, you are one of those people.

Those people? I'm not a fan of the show, I just know how to read an article. Lucy Lawless herself admitted to it. And they kissed in the series. Come on... get your head out of the sand.

I'm not arguing. I just remembered all the fanfiction and completely mental posts I have seen about this back in 2000 something.

The horror...

Oh, well in that case... no I'm not one of those. Was just using her as an example. 

[Ashira Shepard]

Truth in Television

^This is reality. When the news only shows the drag queen section of a gay pride parade thing, what they don't show you is all the perfectly normal dudes walking around who have a plethora of different jobs. Artist, writer, police man, fire fighter, doctor, soldier.

*shrug* They can be action heroes just fine. It's just people freak the f*ck out when Beardy McCoolGuns rides off into the sunset with Johnny rather than Sally.

[NICKjnp]

Shepard is what the player wants Shepard to be. And sexual preference isn't manly. And last I checked...most gay men take care of themselves and are much more healthy and fit (therefore manly) than the average heterosexual. So heterosexual Shepard should have a beer belly and man boobs.

[AngelicMachinery]

centauri2002 wrote...

JRBreason wrote...

Well......not trying to be a dick.....but these don't count. I'm talking about world recognized people, not people from low popularity tv shows that aren't in existent today. I could just be me though, but I never heard of the witch blade, fear effect, legend of the seeker, or xena; i didn't know batwoman or batgirl, was a lesbian. 

I'm talking a bigger scale here. Hand Solo, Spiderman, Batman, Superman, damn near every DC or Marvel character that's been on the big screen, any movie where arnold is in. Any action movie with bruce willis, or stallone. Captain Kirk, the dude from avatar, so on and so forth. 

Then you just need to be more widely read. Because most of those were popular shows. Just because you don't know Batwoman is a lesbian, doesn't mean she isn't. It doesn't matter if a television show has ten million viewers or a million, it doesn't invalidate the characters involved.

You're talking about those because it backs up your point. One which is irrelevant because the restrictions on a hero's sexuality is imposed because of societal views. Not because gayness limits heroicness. If you're saying we conform to this outdated notion, then I'd say you keep on reading those comic books from the 50s.

I'm  pretty sure batman and superman were gay in the 50s they had sleepovers,  cuddled,  and all sorts of other homoerotic actions.

[Eiliestl]

Blacklash93 wrote...

Omega-202 wrote...

Blacklash93 wrote...

I'm not given a ton of choices in DA2 either, but Hawke can still be gay. There's no problem with it at all.

People can view Shepard however they please. There are dynamics in his basic personality already and sexuality isn't a far cry from that at all.

Because Hawke was written as such.  They decided that was part of the character.  If they'd decided that Shepard was bisexual from the start and depicted him as such, I'd have no problem.  Heck, I wouldn't even have a big problem with them introducing a new male love interest for male Shepard and make the argument that he was never given a M-M relationship because there were no interested companions.  

I'd ask "why didn't the alien males make a pass at him" because as previously said xenophilia would seem to make homosexuality a relative non-issue, but that's a whole extra bag of worms.

But to retcon it and make current LI's now bisexual is very much ridiculous.  At no point has the idea of a bisexual or homosexual male Shepard ever been hinted at and the same goes for all male companions.  And its not as if they couldn't have made such a fact apparent.  You get shot-down by Samara pretty handily so the idea of Shepard coming on to an uninterested party was something they obviously considered.  

And to the idea of "people can view Shepard however they please" that's just something I don't believe is valid.  People are multifaceted and the choices we make are not always consistent with someone's narrow view.  Shepard is the same way.  All possible choices can easily be wrapped into a single cohesive character.  Shepard is Shepard and there are very few choices in the games that can be called categorically "out of character".  Every choice that we make as Shepard has another side that can be rationalized.    

And what makes you think that Shepard was never meant to have a gay option? What makes you think giving him one now would hurt character in any way?

By playing the game .And does anybody in the game have to be gay?

[Inquisitor Recon]

Blacklash93 wrote...
The double standard in Shepard's sexuality is the problem.

If Bioware never used the pre-denfined excuse, a lot of these arguments would have never happended.

Anything can be seen as a double standard these days, it isn't a big deal. Regardless it is Bioware's game, it is their developers and such who work on it, and they get the final say. Plus they've already got our money.

[corporal doody]

man...i dunno...someone needs to stop comparing their values and personal beliefs to other cultures...especially fictional ones. if you were to try that as a student of anthropology...you would get the boot.


you'd figured people in the future would be more progressive about sexuality anyways. I havent heard any human characters in game spouting same sex relations (with other humans) are wrong. nor have i heard any comment about it from any other species in game. Asari are asari. they are the MIDDLE PATH for all the other species (both sexes) in the ME universe.
-You can debate their sex..though their appearance is female..they have no gender..as gender is dictated by societal constructs. Gender roles for asari seem non-existent (generally) but vary depending on their relationship with other individuals of other species.
-When i think asari, i dont think man or woman...i think masculine and feminine.

lost my chain of thought. this topic is lose

[Leonia]

Nyoka wrote...

Abramis brama wrote...

Because Asari are not female. It's alien relationship for both male and female Shepards.

So if Manshep likes Liara, he's not heterosexual.

Heh, the irony amuses me.

Ok, really, leaving the thread now. Enjoy the senseless debate with folks who are unwilling to accept a different lifestyle to their own.

[Abramis brama]

Nyoka wrote...

Abramis brama wrote...

Because Asari are not female. It's alien relationship for both male and female Shepards.

So if Manshep likes Liara, he's not heterosexual.

No, he is a heterosexual that just happens to like that particular Asari.

[PnXMarcin1PL]

You've just got trolled guys. Cheers!

[Centauri2002]

Abramis brama wrote...

Nyoka wrote...

Abramis brama wrote...

Because Asari are not female. It's alien relationship for both male and female Shepards.

So if Manshep likes Liara, he's not heterosexual.

No, he is a heterosexual that just happens to like that particular Asari.

And my Shepard is a lesbian who just so happens to love an asari. 

[Inquisitor Recon]

AshiraShepard wrote...
*shrug* They can be action heroes just fine. It's just people freak the f*ck out when Beardy McCoolGuns rides off into the sunset with Johnny rather than Sally.

If I didn't know better I would swear you run that site from how often you link to it. People like heros they can relate to, I don't see the problem with expecing McCoolGuns to ride off with the hot babe. You watch McCoolGuns expecting that sort of thing.

[Eiliestl]

PnXMarcin1PL wrote...

You've just got trolled guys. Cheers!

Why because this thread is not pro-gay?