192 réponses à ce sujet

[Dean_the_Young]

**** yeah.

[ADLegend21]

Nozybidaj wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...
True, but a soldier is governed bya  military while an assasin is governed by money or service. Jacob says so "I'm loyal to more than just my next pay check" it's a valid point and not hypocritical in any sense.

Jacob loyal?  We are talking about the man that quit this military that he is so loyal to and joined a terrorist organization right?  That Jacob?

You mean when said Military ignores a looming threat and said terroist organization not only saves the highest power in teh galaxy, but also fights this looming threat. Yes that's loyal to the preservation of organic life within the Galaxy. Damn loyal actually.

[ADLegend21]

Hah Yes Reapers wrote...

ReconTeam wrote...

Nothing is wrong with Jacob, not everybody needs to be a genetically engineered superhuman, alien, or kill 10 people before eating breakfast (Zaeed) in order to be cool.

Nothing wrong? Really. How about his characer? Talk to him and he puts on this cool/casual guy persona that is so phony, and he pretty much tells you nothing at all every time. What are you fighting for? Why? Any stories from serving in the Alliance? Nope. Add in that he's pretty weak in combat, so there's two things wrong.

There's potential in him, there's still hope that they make him a better character for ME3, but as of now he's quite easily the worst.

What about his character he's not looking for a shoulder to cry on, just go in get the job done and his character is wrong? that's how EVERY person you recruit on the the SM should be not "whaaaa someone betrayed me, I wanna kill him" like Garrus "batman"(Turian councilor style quotes) Vakarian that everyone seems to love. The man doesn't want to burden you with his problems and when you try to "fix" him he tells you to F*ck off, serves you right for assuming everyone needs Shepard to be their moral compass.

[PrinceLionheart]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

naledgeborn wrote...

Do you know why "people" hate Jacob? He's Shepard 2.0. If Cerberus couldn't bring Shepard back I damn well know that he'd be in charge of taking down the Collectors and the suicide mission. I don't think he'd be as successful but I do think he'd "live to tell about it." That and his lack of dependence on Shepard. And the Fem Shep romance. Which are all sad. Especially when he's very relate-able when RPing Man Shep.

Great. I've thought about it before, but now I really want to entertain the thought of how Cerberus would have gone against the Collectors without Shepard.

It's surprising just how many of the crewmates were willing to join independent of it being, well, Shepard. About the only two recruits who were unquestionably Shepard-specific were Tali and Legion, and Tali could possibly be worked around by giving her ulterior motives (spying on Cerberus) and an opportunity to avenge Shepard by fighting the Collectors directly.

Throw in the Broker's analysis that Jacob's role on the team is as a stabilizer, and a lot of the recruitment/loyalty missions do mark him as a backup.

That is an interesting interpretation, I never thought about it that way. I have to imagine even if Jacob was the leader, he still would've recruit Thane begrudgingly. The only person I don't see being recruited was Legion. Although he isn't vocal about it, he definitely has his own grudge against the Geth for what happened on Eden Prime.

[didymos1120]

PrinceLionheart wrote...
Although he isn't vocal about it, he definitely has his own grudge against the Geth for what happened on Eden Prime.

Uh, yes he is. He outright says you shouldn't even sell Legion, just space it.   "Not talking about it constantly" =/= "not vocal".

[Reapinger]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Okay, ... now ontopic:
The only thing amiss in this entire situation when Jacob and Thane meet is the short Character Derailment Jacob suffers. He has been a very sensible and tolerant man, seemly eager to stand for the "greater good" (no Hot Fuzz beshizzele here please). Him joining up with Cerberus, a, beyond all propagande and/or definitions of terrorism aside (and I do look upon Cerberus as organisation as being terrorstic so don't go Cerberus Fanboy on me!) militant group which to some extent does what the Alliance didn't do or couldn't do due to political ramifications only shows how consequent he acts on his convictions. I give him great credit for stating he doesn't condone some of their actions though, as goes for some actions Shepard did/might have done. This could of course have been just talk to get on ones good side, but so far he is one of the most integral characters there are, which makes the reaction towards Thane as awkward as it turns out. Dislike is understandable, the amount concievable, the way however he acts on such is just out of character.

Points on how his antagony may be based on have been given good and mostly all of them are completely logical and sensible. I may dare as to say what most people drove off is how he "freaked out", especially compared to his standard behaviour I have tried to illustrate in short.

That is the one thing that sets him apart from the other cast (in a bad light of course), from whom each has their own problems. The vegeance driven Garrus, the Atonement-in-killing Samara, the psychotic Jack, the self-pitying assassin Thane, the Super Soldier Grunt in puberty and so forth as have been mentioned to some degree already.

Jacob is a perfectly fine character, I actually tend to familiarize with him the most up to this very situation in which I consequently facepalm and yell "What the hell, Writers/Developers!?". He is not bland at all, ... apart from his romance which is stereotypical macho and blunt narming (though I find it hilarious and probability for it to actually work once you got far enough like that is tending VERY high to be honest!).


Hope I could make my point understandable.

didymos1120 wrote...

PrinceLionheart wrote...
Although he isn't vocal about it, he definitely has his own grudge against the Geth for what happened on Eden Prime.

Uh, yes he is. He outright says you shouldn't even sell Legion, just space it.   "Not talking about it constantly" =/= "not vocal".

He has a very valid point however! The Geth have up to date have been shooting people on sight, especially during the events of ME1 and after they did a killing (literally) all over the place AND to boot they have a hive-mind like conscience, so you can't really say that only a few tried to kill of all organics. Given how we didn't knew about Geth subfactions up to later on after waking said unit/Legion and the same being questionable anyhow since one single entity acting as such doesn't give much viable empirical evidence, his attitude towards the Geth, no matter, or even especially how strange its behaviour seemed is perfectly reasonable.
I mean, Shepard/Miranda are essentially trying to either wake and chat with/to the Terminator or trying to hack the one known entity remarkable for being THE hacker respectively. Those are essential risks each and potential losses could be beyond disastrous. John Connor didn't really try to talk the T1000 or TX down either, or did he?

Geth are one singular collection of memory, not specific identities. Just a bunch of platforms and programs. Some mobile, some stationary. The Geth base everything on logic. When you speak to legion, he is a partition of all geth intelligence communicating to the other geth platforms at FTL speeds. He represents all of the non-heretic geth since he is in fact the geth.

[Mister BK]

Jacob is just jealous of Thane actually being interesting. Of all the new characters introduced, he seems by far the lowest on personality. Somehow the others just had much more interesting backstories and comments. Every other character introduced in ME2 seemed to be carefully considered to be interesting from some particular angle (even if Miranda's angle was just 'from behind'), like Mordin's erratic genius or Jack's unstable but understandable aggression. I could never really work out why they seemed to skim over him, giving him a generic backstory and little chance to express a distinct, interesting personality. I can't remember any line of his that didn't involve "The priiiiize", and that I only know of from the meme

[didymos1120]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

PrinceLionheart wrote...
Although he isn't vocal about it, he definitely has his own grudge against the Geth for what happened on Eden Prime.

Uh, yes he is. He outright says you shouldn't even sell Legion, just space it.   "Not talking about it constantly" =/= "not vocal".

He has a very valid point however!  *snip bunch of stuff*

Not sure why you got into all that.  I never said he didn't have a point.  I simply provided an example to show that he was vocal about the geth when it was actually relevant. 

[ADLegend21]

Mister BK wrote...

Jacob is just jealous of Thane actually being interesting. Of all the new characters introduced, he seems by far the lowest on personality. Somehow the others just had much more interesting backstories and comments. Every other character introduced in ME2 seemed to be carefully considered to be interesting from some particular angle (even if Miranda's angle was just 'from behind'), like Mordin's erratic genius or Jack's unstable but understandable aggression. I could never really work out why they seemed to skim over him, giving him a generic backstory and little chance to express a distinct, interesting personality. I can't remember any line of his that didn't involve "The priiiiize", and that I only know of from the meme

what you call intersting other's would call crazy. Jacob's the most stable and wella djusted person on the Normandy, he's got little to no baggage and he's not over emotional or needs fixing. He's strong willied, as a properly working moral compass and doesn't take **** from anyone. He calls people on their BS and doesn't have his own. Also interesting means nothing when going up aainst suicidal odds. Jacob's the leader type and it shows when he gets the nonShepard fire team through the base alive, unlike Thane.

[didymos1120]

Reapinger wrote...

When you speak to legion, he is a partition of all geth intelligence communicating to the other geth platforms at FTL speeds.

No, he is not.  Legion's a collection 1183 geth runtimes in a single platform who usually aren't in contact with the other geth.  You can even ask: "So you're in contact with the rest of the geth right now?"  Legion will answer: "Only when we require access to data not stored within this platform."  And Legion requires exterior comm gear to contact the main geth network.  Hence trying to access the Normandy's systems.

[Mister BK]

@Neofelis Nebulosa
I'm not going to lie, when you said "Read my illustrations" I went back through this entire thread looking for comics. I was bitterly disappointed by their absense

@ADLegend21
That's sorta the problem. He doesn't have major issues, doesn't talk to you about his problems, just quietly does his job. Which is fine from a competence, point of view, but not very interesting. Legion is more memorable and he is literally a robot. Why isn't legion a romance option, I'm sure he has a vibrate mode.

More on topic, it just feels like you could've very easily replaced him with another character in the same role and noticed little difference, you know? It would've been quite easy to make him a more exciting character without necessary making him crazy. I'd settle for giving him a hobby, even Shepard gets to collect model ships. Maybe he could've had a couple of funny stories or tell a joke. By the end of the game I honestly wanted a mod to put a little party hat on his head so he'd at least make me chuckle when I wandered through the armory

[ADLegend21]

Mister BK wrote...

@ADLegend21
That's sorta the problem. He doesn't have major issues, doesn't talk to you about his problems, just quietly does his job. Which is fine from a competence, point of view, but not very interesting. Legion is more memorable and he is literally a robot. Why isn't legion a romance option, I'm sure he has a vibrate mode.

More on topic, it just feels like you could've very easily replaced him with another character in the same role and noticed little difference, you know? It would've been quite easy to make him a more exciting character without necessary making him crazy. I'd settle for giving him a hobby, even Shepard gets to collect model ships. Maybe he could've had a couple of funny stories or tell a joke. By the end of the game I honestly wanted a mod to put a little party hat on his head so he'd at least make me chuckle when I wandered through the armory

That's Legion's purpose, he's a Geth. he's a liason to the Geth. Jacob's not ground breaking, he's basically the rock that keeps everyone together and civil. he doesn't ahveto be interesting if interesting means I have to keep talking to him about his problems. He also manages the weapons and impliments the upgrades Mordin develops so he's the reason your weapons are so lethal.

[Alpha-Centuri]

All Jacob needs is a cutscene. Just one, awesome, cutscene. Show him blasting through a base in a covert ops mission with Miranda and another squadmate with him personally breaking Shepard out. People would yell "OMG so badass!". When in fact he's the same character as before, its already in his character type.

Edit: Jack has a cutscene taking on 3 mechs in little over 3 seconds. Thane has a cutscene, Garrus, etc. Jacob shoots the head off a mech (Sure it shows impressive aim, but its not THAT impressive.) Just give him an awesome scene, and the masses would probably relent.

He doesn't need anything else. He actually is an interesting guy, and anyone who plays Maleshep can probably attest that he makes a great bromance. Most people hate on Jacob because bioware made him into a weaker gameplay character than he should have been. 

Modifié par Alpha-Centuri, 27 avril 2011 - 07:21 .

[didymos1120]

ADLegend21 wrote...
he doesn't ahveto be interesting if interesting means I have to keep talking to him about his problems.

Why keep bringing this up as if it's the only thing people could mean by "being interesting"?  Why couldn't he have just told some stories about his exploits as a Corsair? "Ok, so there was this one time we were tracking this batarian guy..." How about comparing notes with Shep about Eden Prime instead of the little throwaway reference we got? "Yeah, you were over at the spaceport, right? You should have seen what was going on over at X..." Hell, have the guy tell a "A turian, salarian, and krogan walk into Afterlife" joke or whatever. Have him talk about the damn weapons he's supposedly spending all his time maintaining and tweaking. Something.  There are a bajillion ways to make Jacob's conversations interesting and develop his character that don't involve him angsting over stuff or even getting mildly upset. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 27 avril 2011 - 07:32 .

[AngelicMachinery]

Alpha-Centuri wrote...

All Jacob needs is a cutscene. Just one, awesome, cutscene. Show him blasting through a base in a covert ops mission with Miranda and another squadmate with him personally breaking Shepard out. People would yell "OMG so badass!". When in fact he's the same character as before, its already in his character type.

Edit: Jack has a cutscene taking on 3 mechs in little over 3 seconds. Thane has a cutscene, Garrus, etc. Jacob shoots the head off a mech (Sure it shows impressive aim, but its not THAT impressive.) Just give him an awesome scene, and the masses would probably relent.

He doesn't need anything else. He actually is an interesting guy, and anyone who plays Maleshep can probably attest that he makes a great bromance. Most people hate on Jacob because bioware made him into a weaker gameplay character than he should have been. 

Can he be shirtless and possibly smoking a cigar?

[Dean_the_Young]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

High Five!

**** no.

[ADLegend21]

didymos1120 wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...
he doesn't ahveto be interesting if interesting means I have to keep talking to him about his problems.

Why keep bringing this up as if it's the only thing people could mean by "being interesting"?  Why couldn't he have just told some stories about his exploits as a Corsair? "Ok, so there was this one time we were tracking this batarian guy..." How about comparing notes with Shep about Eden Prime instead of the little throwaway reference we got? "Yeah, you were over at the spaceport, right? You should have seen what was going on over at X..." Hell, have the guy tell a "A turian, salarian, and krogan walk into Afterlife" joke or whatever. Have him talk about the damn weapons he's supposedly spending all his time maintaining and tweaking. Something.  There are a bajillion ways to make Jacob's conversations interesting and develop his character that don't involve him angsting over stuff or even getting mildly upset. 

you ahve a great point, I wish they did hav ehim tell some of his stories form the corsairs., but then again that was zaeed's gig, all he did was tell war stories about how he got out but everyone else didn't. Jacob's an outstanding soldier great in combat when levelled up, and someone who can relate to Shepard since he's saved the galaxy then had his work covered up, he also provides the example that Cerberus isn't all bad and does indeed have some redeeming qualities. He's also an outstanding love interest, even if people who've never played his romance ony remember the priiiize line, (check out the vid in my signature for proof.)

[Mister BK]

I don't want a cutscene so much as some conversation. Remember Mordin's singing? It added a wonderful bit of flavour to the character without adding angst or problems. Jacob is a coworker, and never really comes off as wanting to do anything beyond his job. That's fair enough, but it means I'm not really going to care if he lives or dies. Just an entertaining back and forth between him and Shepard would've gone a long way. Admittedly the fact that he didn't seem outstanding in combat didn't help him out, as it left no compelling reason to bring him with me over other characters I had more history with, like Garrus

Modifié par Mister BK, 27 avril 2011 - 07:46 .