214 réponses à ce sujet

[tiernanlshaw]

Ronin2006 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

See confirmation bias. That explains a lot. the rest of it is to be expected and well within the big bell curve of like and don't like.

Wow, this is one of the most arrogant and patronising responses I've read on this forum.  Considering that it has come from a moderator on this forum, it is extremely disappointing and shameful.  I have lost a lot of respect for Bioware and the moderators on this forum from this post, and particularly this moderator.

Normally, despite the extreme opinions presented on both sides of the fence, (including some of the overly extreme emotional vitriol), the moderator's conduct themselves in a decent manner that is accommodating to all differing opinions no matter how extreme they are, so long as they are expressed civily.

You sir may attribute the OP's post about this game to nothing more than confirmation bias, but perhaps you have let your own "bias" show from your interpretation of this thread.

The arrogance absolutely astounds me.  Do you think that perhaps some of the concerns expressed about this game don't come from an actual "bias" but things that are genuinely found in this game, and not from selective memory and pre established beliefs as you seem to imply?  People did express concerns about the "streamlining" that would potentially appear in this game, and to deny that there wasn't some "streamlining" would be foolish.  People did express concerns over the more action-oriented approach and lack of strategic tactical camera, and of course, this did occur.  It's not so much opinion, but objective fact.  Whether a person actually *likes* these changes is down to personal opinion, but the changes did occur and this is fact.

I really hope your attitude and opinions don't reflect those of Bioware as a whole.  Because if they do, they have completely lost touch with a significant part of their customer base.  Sure, many things are personal taste, and I won't deny that many people do like a lot of what is contained in this game, but to deny people's genuine concerns as being nothing more than "bias" reflects moreso on your own arrogance and bias.

suck it up princess

[Ronin2006]

tiernanlshaw wrote...

Ronin2006 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

See confirmation bias. That explains a lot. the rest of it is to be expected and well within the big bell curve of like and don't like.

Wow, this is one of the most arrogant and patronising responses I've read on this forum.  Considering that it has come from a moderator on this forum, it is extremely disappointing and shameful.  I have lost a lot of respect for Bioware and the moderators on this forum from this post, and particularly this moderator.

Normally, despite the extreme opinions presented on both sides of the fence, (including some of the overly extreme emotional vitriol), the moderator's conduct themselves in a decent manner that is accommodating to all differing opinions no matter how extreme they are, so long as they are expressed civily.

You sir may attribute the OP's post about this game to nothing more than confirmation bias, but perhaps you have let your own "bias" show from your interpretation of this thread.

The arrogance absolutely astounds me.  Do you think that perhaps some of the concerns expressed about this game don't come from an actual "bias" but things that are genuinely found in this game, and not from selective memory and pre established beliefs as you seem to imply?  People did express concerns about the "streamlining" that would potentially appear in this game, and to deny that there wasn't some "streamlining" would be foolish.  People did express concerns over the more action-oriented approach and lack of strategic tactical camera, and of course, this did occur.  It's not so much opinion, but objective fact.  Whether a person actually *likes* these changes is down to personal opinion, but the changes did occur and this is fact.

I really hope your attitude and opinions don't reflect those of Bioware as a whole.  Because if they do, they have completely lost touch with a significant part of their customer base.  Sure, many things are personal taste, and I won't deny that many people do like a lot of what is contained in this game, but to deny people's genuine concerns as being nothing more than "bias" reflects moreso on your own arrogance and bias.

suck it up princess

Pffft

[Mad-Max90]

I think we need people from both sides actually argue the pros and cons of the game, I will admit I did prefer some of the faster combat, but even on hard there was a loss of real tactics, that could be improved on the next game, the spawning enemies could come from doors instead of raining down from their mothership. I'm going to try and be civil, but the game was lacking in plot structure, they should have introduced meradeth and orsino before the end of act 2, they should have had given the player more freedom with the choices in the game, I like how I cant murder knife the dockworker yet it feels like I murdered half of Kirkwall before he so smugly tells me I can't murder him in daylight, even though there is a trail of dead bodies leading up to him. The companions were all to extreme with there characteristics, except for varric and sebastien. The lack of different enemies compared to origins, yes I compared the sequel to it's much more popular predecessor. I'm not sorry if I even came close to hurting somebody's feelings over my review, because it seems people are getting offended way to easily these days.

[MadLaughter]

Confirmation bias also applies to developers who make mistakes simply choosing to believe that fans are pessimistic, overreacting morons.

[Merced652]

Seena wrote...

"all" "our" "fears"?

Emo much?

oh how cute. 

[MorrigansLove]

Craaaaaaaaaaaap, Stanley is taking a beating here...

[Knightsire]

Mad-Max90 wrote...

I think we need people from both sides actually argue the pros and cons of the game, I will admit I did prefer some of the faster combat, but even on hard there was a loss of real tactics, that could be improved on the next game, the spawning enemies could come from doors instead of raining down from their mothership. I'm going to try and be civil, but the game was lacking in plot structure, they should have introduced meradeth and orsino before the end of act 2, they should have had given the player more freedom with the choices in the game, I like how I cant murder knife the dockworker yet it feels like I murdered half of Kirkwall before he so smugly tells me I can't murder him in daylight, even though there is a trail of dead bodies leading up to him. The companions were all to extreme with there characteristics, except for varric and sebastien. The lack of different enemies compared to origins, yes I compared the sequel to it's much more popular predecessor. I'm not sorry if I even came close to hurting somebody's feelings over my review, because it seems people are getting offended way to easily these days.

I agree with a balanced approach.  Also, you are correct that Bioware is more than just Dragon Age.  Casey Hudson and his team on Mass Effect are doing a wonderful job with that series.  KOTOR Online looks like it could be interesting.  Also, I remember reading about Ray Muzyka announcing new upcoming games that could further expand the genres of games they provide. 

[Mezinger]

I think the OP has valid point... there was a lot of concern around the initial announcement regarding streamlining / consolization of the franchise, and then there was some, oh don't worry it's still going to be just as tactical... and then it was "press a and something awesome happens.", you've all seen the animated gif. oh and let's not forget "ops sorry we forgot to ship with auto-attack on the consoles."

I agree Bioware should have just called a spade a spade and been more honest with the "we're interested in the COD crowd and DA2 is not going to be an origins spiritual successor" but they're not honest because they don't want to lose sales which is the whole reason they're in this mess because they're busy trying to appeal to everyone. And now apparently they wish to belittle their customers too... Sweet! The EA Bioware adventure is going places!

[petipas1414]

Stop denying you churned out a **** game thx

[Elhanan]

petipas1414 wrote...

Stop denying you churned out a **** game thx

Such eloquence must be quoted, as it typifies the Hater party line Oh! so well....

[Tommy6860]

Mezinger wrote...
The EA Bioware adventure is going places!

Hmm, maybe they could make that into an RPG .

[AlexXIV]

Khayness wrote...

Even the 7 gigs=shorter flamewar is justified now.

It isn't shorter, it just looks the same.

Stanley Woo wrote...

See confirmation bias. That explains a lot. the rest of it is to be expected and well within the big bell curve of like and don't like.

Nice double-edged sword there.

Play it on Hard or suck it up Princess.

These boards never cease to amuse me. People read this and automatically assume it only applies to people who dislike DA2 because they wanted it to be bad, and not also to people who like it because they wanted to like it. Double edged indeed and almost everyone in the thread got cut.

Modifié par AlexXIV, 30 avril 2011 - 06:37 .

[Revan312]

Bias formulates most of opinion, in fact, bias and opinion are pretty much analogous, so shoehorning confirmation bias into the thread really doesn't say much. It especially doesn't change the fact that such opinion still drives reputation perception..

Bottom line is the flack you got before release has, as is to be expected, moved through into post release and has effected mass opinion concerning the integrity of Bioware. Acting like 5 year olds and dismissing fan reaction rather than playing damage control is simply imbecilic..

[xCirdanx]

Tommy6860 wrote...

Mezinger wrote...
The EA Bioware adventure is going places!

Hmm, maybe they could make that into an RPG .

I would pay for that!

Hm, well the OP has a point, when i think back about my first impressions of the game and my already strong negativ feelings after DA:A, (also posted here), yes "we" were "right".

[Siansonea]

It's interesting to see so many people STILL pitching a fit over Dragon Age 2, all these months later. And what's doubly interesting is seeing them with registered DA2 games under their stern-looking avatars—some of which are DA2 avatars! So, if DA2 was so awful, SO broken, why didn't they return it for a refund? Why are they still here? If they really are 'done' with BioWare, Dragon Age, etc., why are they still here?

We get it, BioWare betrayed you, Dragon Age 2 was a slap in the face, RPG this, dumbed down that, immersion breaking this-and-that blah blah blah. So why ARE you still here? And why are you holding on to your copy of a game you hate? Seems to me, if I hated the game that much, I would have moved on to something else by now. But the same people have been posting for literally MONTHS about how and very specifically why they hate the game...that they still own.

Guess what? The failure condition of a game is a dollar amount, not the amount of negative posts on Teh Internetz. BioWare already cashed your check and put your name under the "sold" column. So all the bluster and wind is rather hollow in the grand scheme of things. And as we all know, the worst response a game can receive is apathy—epic rage is preferable to complete indifference. So even all these futile posts of "why didn't I get a re-skin/retread of DAO!!!" are actually contributing to the metrics of a very lively and healthy fan community—a sign of a game's SUCCESS.

[xCirdanx]

Siansonea II wrote...

It's interesting to see so many people STILL pitching a fit over Dragon Age 2, all these months later. And what's doubly interesting is seeing them with registered DA2 games under their stern-looking avatars—some of which are DA2 avatars! So, if DA2 was so awful, SO broken, why didn't they return it for a refund? Why are they still here? If they really are 'done' with BioWare, Dragon Age, etc., why are they still here?

We get it, BioWare betrayed you, Dragon Age 2 was a slap in the face, RPG this, dumbed down that, immersion breaking this-and-that blah blah blah. So why ARE you still here? And why are you holding on to your copy of a game you hate? Seems to me, if I hated the game that much, I would have moved on to something else by now. But the same people have been posting for literally MONTHS about how and very specifically why they hate the game...that they still own.

Guess what? The failure condition of a game is a dollar amount, not the amount of negative posts on Teh Internetz. BioWare already cashed your check and put your name under the "sold" column. So all the bluster and wind is rather hollow in the grand scheme of things. And as we all know, the worst response a game can receive is apathy—epic rage is preferable to complete indifference. So even all these futile posts of "why didn't I get a re-skin/retread of DAO!!!" are actually contributing to the metrics of a very lively and healthy fan community—a sign of a game's SUCCESS.

It would be more "interesting" to see people complain about it without having played the game/owning it, don´t you think? Because an avatar means you have to like the game right?

Many shops make problems when you try to return a game with account-binding. That doesn´t mean it´s not possible but i have never returned a game, it´s not like i need the money and i collect games anyway.

I agree however with your last point, but you won´t stop people from complaining

[billy the squid]

Revan312 wrote...

Bias formulates most of opinion, in fact, bias and opinion are pretty much analogous, so shoehorning confirmation bias into the thread really doesn't say much. It especially doesn't change the fact that such opinion still drives reputation perception..

Bottom line is the flack you got before release has, as is to be expected, moved through into post release and has effected mass opinion concerning the integrity of Bioware. Acting like 5 year olds and dismissing fan reaction rather than playing damage control is simply imbecilic..

Well, I think some of the interviews were supposed to be damage control, attempting to defend DA2 and portray criticism as a vocal minority was some vain attempt to justify DA2's direction. It didn't work, the percieved audience still didn't materialise in any significant numbers and it just succeeded in riling up the core consumer base even more, it was a badly concieved plan. So, yes Bioware, pouring fuel on the fire is always a brilliant plan, keep going.

Modifié par billy the squid, 30 avril 2011 - 10:45 .

[Siansonea]

xCirdanx wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

It's interesting to see so many people STILL pitching a fit over Dragon Age 2, all these months later. And what's doubly interesting is seeing them with registered DA2 games under their stern-looking avatars—some of which are DA2 avatars! So, if DA2 was so awful, SO broken, why didn't they return it for a refund? Why are they still here? If they really are 'done' with BioWare, Dragon Age, etc., why are they still here?

We get it, BioWare betrayed you, Dragon Age 2 was a slap in the face, RPG this, dumbed down that, immersion breaking this-and-that blah blah blah. So why ARE you still here? And why are you holding on to your copy of a game you hate? Seems to me, if I hated the game that much, I would have moved on to something else by now. But the same people have been posting for literally MONTHS about how and very specifically why they hate the game...that they still own.

Guess what? The failure condition of a game is a dollar amount, not the amount of negative posts on Teh Internetz. BioWare already cashed your check and put your name under the "sold" column. So all the bluster and wind is rather hollow in the grand scheme of things. And as we all know, the worst response a game can receive is apathy—epic rage is preferable to complete indifference. So even all these futile posts of "why didn't I get a re-skin/retread of DAO!!!" are actually contributing to the metrics of a very lively and healthy fan community—a sign of a game's SUCCESS.

It would be more "interesting" to see people complain about it without having played the game/owning it, don´t you think? Because an avatar means you have to like the game right?

Many shops make problems when you try to return a game with account-binding. That doesn´t mean it´s not possible but i have never returned a game, it´s not like i need the money and i collect games anyway.

I agree however with your last point, but you won´t stop people from complaining

Well, they could still post in the "free" forum if they returned their copy of the game, couldn't they? But that's my point in a nutshell. If the game isn't worthwhile, why is it worth their time to dissect and grouse about? As much as I'm looking forward to ME3, if it widely misses the mark, I will be severely disappointed, and I will return the game from where I bought it. Or, more likely, put it aside and forget about it. But I highly doubt that I'll be here in the forums in the spring of 2012 posting the same complaints over and over again. To me, spending that much time and energy on an unsatisfying experience is just compounding a bad investment.

For instance, I REALLY disliked the movie "Crash", the Racism Is Bad, Mmmkay Movie Starring Everyone In Hollywood that came out a few years ago. Predictably, it won the Best Picture Oscar, because, well, all the voters were IN the movie. Hated that movie. I didn't pay to see it, and I STILL wanted my money back. Complete waste of time. But I wasn't about to launch a campaign about why it was terrible, why it didn't deserve the Oscar win, etc., and burn up the Internet with The Injustice Of It All. It was already into me for a couple of hours of my life, and I'd be damned if it was going to get a minute more. It has proven its value as a tool for analogy, though, so I suppose it wasn't a complete waste of two hours.

[Siansonea]

Revan312 wrote...

Bias formulates most of opinion, in fact, bias and opinion are pretty much analogous, so shoehorning confirmation bias into the thread really doesn't say much. It especially doesn't change the fact that such opinion still drives reputation perception..

Bottom line is the flack you got before release has, as is to be expected, moved through into post release and has effected mass opinion concerning the integrity of Bioware. Acting like 5 year olds and dismissing fan reaction rather than playing damage control is simply imbecilic..

Sesquipedalian much?

I would say that if anyone is acting like a five-year-old, it's the disgruntled fans. I can't see the point or the value of hashing and rehashing the 100 Things I Hate About 2 for months on end. Couch it in the most erudite terms, it's till just a tantrum, it's just a long-winded and long-worded one.

[Yrkoon]

Stanley Woo wrote...

See confirmation bias. That explains a lot. the rest of it is to be expected and well within the big bell curve of like and don't like.

<gag>

  Right.  You keep telling yourself that.  And tell your investors that too, at the end of next quarter, when they wonder what the hell happened, and why DA2 couldn't  break 2 million in sales.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 30 avril 2011 - 11:46 .

[Siansonea]

Yrkoon wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

See confirmation bias. That explains a lot. the rest of it is to be expected and well within the big bell curve of like and don't like.

  Right.  You keep telling yourself that.  And tell your investors that too at the end of next quarter when they wonder what the hell happened, and why DA2 couldn't  break 2 million in sales.

*looks at DA2 Registered Game Owner Logo under Yrkoon's avatar*

*looks at post*

*wonders where the sales theory is coming from*

[Yrkoon]

Ronin2006 wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

See confirmation bias. That explains a lot. the rest of it is to be expected and well within the big bell curve of like and don't like.

Wow, this is one of the most arrogant and patronising responses I've read on this forum.  Considering that it has come from a moderator on this forum,.

Worse.  it came from a Bioware DEVELOPER.

[Yrkoon]

Siansonea II wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

See confirmation bias. That explains a lot. the rest of it is to be expected and well within the big bell curve of like and don't like.

  Right.  You keep telling yourself that.  And tell your investors that too at the end of next quarter when they wonder what the hell happened, and why DA2 couldn't  break 2 million in sales.

*looks at DA2 Registered Game Owner Logo under Yrkoon's avatar*

*looks at post*

*wonders where the sales theory is coming from*

  Sales figures, perhaps??

  Wait, I got a better, more on-topic answer:  It came from my one tragic flaw:   Loyalty.   Unlike the OP, I thought DA2 was gonna be friggin awesome, just like all Bioware games...  So I pre-ordered it, only to be side-swiped by sobering  reality when  I actually played it.    Consequently,  I went out and told all my fence-sitting friends not to bother  because the game was Garbage.  They took my advice, and didn't buy the game.   That's called word of mouth, btw..  It's one of the biggest single factors in a product's financial success.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 01 mai 2011 - 12:03 .

[xYOSSARIANx]

Stanley Woo wrote...

See confirmation bias. That explains a lot. the rest of it is to be expected and well within the big bell curve of like and don't like.

I love my RPG's. I make a point NOT to read previews or the endless speculation on message boards prior to getting my hands on the game. So you can't try to tell me I had 'confirmation bias', I knew NOTHING about DA2 other than it was a sequel to a fantastic game and I was looking forward to more of the same.

What I got was absolute rubbish, but then you knew that, that's why you set the review embargo to the day it shipped, you will not catch me out with that trick again, and I'd never pre-order a Bioware game again.

END OF LINE

Modifié par xYOSSARIANx, 01 mai 2011 - 01:21 .

[Chromie]

Yrkoon wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Yrkoon wrote...

Stanley Woo wrote...

See confirmation bias. That explains a lot. the rest of it is to be expected and well within the big bell curve of like and don't like.

  Right.  You keep telling yourself that.  And tell your investors that too at the end of next quarter when they wonder what the hell happened, and why DA2 couldn't  break 2 million in sales.

*looks at DA2 Registered Game Owner Logo under Yrkoon's avatar*

*looks at post*

*wonders where the sales theory is coming from*

  Sales figures, perhaps??

  Wait, I got a better, more on-topic answer:  It came from my one tragic flaw:   Loyalty.   Unlike the OP, I thought DA2 was gonna be friggin awesome, just like all Bioware games...  So I pre-ordered it, only to be side-swiped by sobering  reality when  I actually played it.    Consequently,  I went out and told all my fence-sitting friends not to bother  because the game was Garbage.  They took my advice, and didn't buy the game.   That's called word of mouth, btw..  It's one of the biggest single factors in a product's financial success.

All I can say is Witcher 2.