19 réponses à ce sujet

[Captmorgan72]

When Anders tried to rescue his friend Karl, he discovered that he was forced into tranquility. Justice came out and Karl was restored to his formal self after being exposed to the power of Justice. This only lasted briefly but it got me thinking. What if a tranquil was possessed by a spirit of the fade like Justice? Would they be restored to their former selves? Would their connection to the fade be restored?

[Knight of Dane]

When mages are tranquilized (cool word) their connection to the fade are severed.
What Anders did was (unwillingly?) summon Justice, which kinda opens a way to the fade i suppose.
Karl as a former mage was then brought bck to his old self because he briefly got a touch of the fade again, once Anders regained control the fade connection disappeared and Karl returned to his tranquil state.

I assume if you somehow can find a permanent way to open the fade for the tranquil then yes, otherwise i would say no.

[DA_GamerGal]

That's an interesting question. From what happened to Karl after he was exposed to Justice, I would say that it might very well be possible... but then again, how would a spirit of the fade be able to possess a tranquil if the mage in question is already cut off from the Fade?

[Meyne]

The Veil was made thin there due to Justice's influence, since Justice would naturally draw more power from the Fade with Anders's connection. Problem is a permanent thin area (like the Brecillian Forest) has its own issues. Perhaps Tranquil could touch the Fade again in a thin area with some spirits/demons moving about, but the risk factors for possession and other issues grow.

Then there is the issue that mostly Spirits DON'T want to possess others - you really have to draw them closer and sometimes force them out of the Fade into someone.  You'd likely get a demon that would risk it.

Modifié par Meyne, 27 avril 2011 - 02:45 .

[Captmorgan72]

krissyjf wrote...

 but then again, how would a spirit of the fade be able to possess a tranquil if the mage in question is already cut off from the Fade?

By having Anders bring out Justice to temporarily restore the connection, just long enough for the spirit to possess the tranquil.

[Knight of Dane]

Perhaps, i shall certainly not limit any possibilities, but I'd bet to cure a traquil mage or perhaps cleanse the tain in a grey warden will likely take alot of blood or lyrium plus a fade connection and a willing spirit.

[Sable Rhapsody]

Captmorgan72 wrote...

When Anders tried to rescue his friend Karl, he discovered that he was forced into tranquility. Justice came out and Karl was restored to his formal self after being exposed to the power of Justice. This only lasted briefly but it got me thinking. What if a tranquil was possessed by a spirit of the fade like Justice? Would they be restored to their former selves? Would their connection to the fade be restored?

I don't think there's a permanent cure to being made Tranquil, just a temporary relapse.

On the other hand, I think Anders' special situation would maybe make him IMMUNE to being made Tranquil.  After all, he has a Fade spirit as a part of him; something tells me that the Rite of Tranquility wouldn't work properly on semi-abominations like Anders or Wynne, and would probably have no effect on a being like Flemeth.

[rayvioletta]

given how 'well' Anders merging with a spirit works out and that most (at least outside of Kirkwall) Tranquil are made so because of their likelihood to succumb to demonic influence I don't think merging one with a spirit would be a great idea even if it was possible

[Maria Caliban]

There is no permanent solution, only a stop gap measure that eventually fails. This is sad and in keeping with DA II's themes!

[ACM1989]

Didn't the keeper tell Hawke that killing Feynrel in the Fade would only make him a Tranquil? Therefore Tranquils are mages who are killed in the Fade. Although in the Fade mission Night Terrors, when you have to kill any of your companions, they just wake up with no problem whatsoever. Say only mages can be affected by that, then how come Merrill didn't turn into a Tranquil? And if you Kill Anders in the Fade, how come Justice doesn't dissapear or his host doesn't turn into a Tranquil?

I don't know what explanation have the writers for this (perhaps I just didn't get it?). There's still a lot I don't understand about the Fade, the Spirits, and the mergings/possessions.

[thebrute7]

ACM1989 wrote...

Didn't the keeper tell Hawke that killing Feynrel in the Fade would only make him a Tranquil? Therefore Tranquils are mages who are killed in the Fade. Although in the Fade mission Night Terrors, when you have to kill any of your companions, they just wake up with no problem whatsoever. Say only mages can be affected by that, then how come Merrill didn't turn into a Tranquil? And if you Kill Anders in the Fade, how come Justice doesn't dissapear or his host doesn't turn into a Tranquil?

I don't know what explanation have the writers for this (perhaps I just didn't get it?). There's still a lot I don't understand about the Fade, the Spirits, and the mergings/possessions.

You got part of it.  The Rite of Tranquility actually involves a lyrium brand whihc severs the persons connection to the Fade, thus removing any chance of possession, use of magic, or emotion.  A death in the Fade has the same affect.

The Night Terrors quest is an example of a lore-gameplay break.  In that quest the death of anyone in the Fade should have turned them Tranquil according to lore, but because our heroes all have plot-armor they miraculously survive it unscathed.

[ACM1989]

thebrute7 wrote...

ACM1989 wrote...

Didn't the keeper tell Hawke that killing Feynrel in the Fade would only make him a Tranquil? Therefore Tranquils are mages who are killed in the Fade. Although in the Fade mission Night Terrors, when you have to kill any of your companions, they just wake up with no problem whatsoever. Say only mages can be affected by that, then how come Merrill didn't turn into a Tranquil? And if you Kill Anders in the Fade, how come Justice doesn't dissapear or his host doesn't turn into a Tranquil?

I don't know what explanation have the writers for this (perhaps I just didn't get it?). There's still a lot I don't understand about the Fade, the Spirits, and the mergings/possessions.

You got part of it.  The Rite of Tranquility actually involves a lyrium brand whihc severs the persons connection to the Fade, thus removing any chance of possession, use of magic, or emotion.  A death in the Fade has the same affect.

The Night Terrors quest is an example of a lore-gameplay break.  In that quest the death of anyone in the Fade should have turned them Tranquil according to lore, but because our heroes all have plot-armor they miraculously survive it unscathed.

 Their armors saved them? That's new. I would have figured the writers could come up with a better explanation. I wonder why they couldn't do as in the Fade's quests of Origins and Awakening and just let the bodies of the "dead" scattered around until one of the companions finished the battle. So I take it if the main character and the remaining companion (after two others were killed in Night Terrors) died in the Fade, then they would just wake up in the neighborhood and the game wouldn't say "You were killed; want to start over from the last save?" or something of the sort.

 I am not an English native speaker, so, for what little I've read in this forum, I'm beginning to think I didn't get the meaning of "plot armor" straight.
 There should be a RPG dictionary somewhere. And another for these forums' peculiar terms I tend to find in fanfiction.

Modifié par ACM1989, 03 mai 2011 - 12:14 .

[Heidenreich]

thebrute7 wrote...

ACM1989 wrote...

Didn't the keeper tell Hawke that killing Feynrel in the Fade would only make him a Tranquil? Therefore Tranquils are mages who are killed in the Fade. Although in the Fade mission Night Terrors, when you have to kill any of your companions, they just wake up with no problem whatsoever. Say only mages can be affected by that, then how come Merrill didn't turn into a Tranquil? And if you Kill Anders in the Fade, how come Justice doesn't dissapear or his host doesn't turn into a Tranquil?

I don't know what explanation have the writers for this (perhaps I just didn't get it?). There's still a lot I don't understand about the Fade, the Spirits, and the mergings/possessions.

You got part of it.  The Rite of Tranquility actually involves a lyrium brand whihc severs the persons connection to the Fade, thus removing any chance of possession, use of magic, or emotion.  A death in the Fade has the same affect.

The Night Terrors quest is an example of a lore-gameplay break.  In that quest the death of anyone in the Fade should have turned them Tranquil according to lore, but because our heroes all have plot-armor they miraculously survive it unscathed.

There's a debate on this. Basically, what we've concluded is that because it was Faynrael's specific dream-world, killing him in it makes him tranquil, where it would -not- for others. They were guests, and there due to a ritual, not a dreaming mind that's trapped involetarily. While Hawke and their crew are "Astral-projecting" themselves into the dream, Faynrael's mind was litterally trapped.

So, a death in the fade does -not- cause tranquilty. A death in a personal dream, on the other hand..

Its like saying, if you're having a dream about falling off a cliff, and hit the ground before you wake up, your heart will stop and you'll die. Sort of.

[FaeQueenCory]

I noticed this too... I also noticed that in Origins, demons can be "forced" into Tranquil bodies...

So, theoretically, you could reverse a Tranquil... by making them an abomination...

I think that's the only permanent solution to Tranquility due to the lyrium brand and the fact that spirits are composed of the same dream-stuff that the fade is made of...

[thebrute7]

ACM1989 wrote...

thebrute7 wrote...

ACM1989 wrote...

Didn't the keeper tell Hawke that killing Feynrel in the Fade would only make him a Tranquil? Therefore Tranquils are mages who are killed in the Fade. Although in the Fade mission Night Terrors, when you have to kill any of your companions, they just wake up with no problem whatsoever. Say only mages can be affected by that, then how come Merrill didn't turn into a Tranquil? And if you Kill Anders in the Fade, how come Justice doesn't dissapear or his host doesn't turn into a Tranquil?

I don't know what explanation have the writers for this (perhaps I just didn't get it?). There's still a lot I don't understand about the Fade, the Spirits, and the mergings/possessions.

You got part of it.  The Rite of Tranquility actually involves a lyrium brand whihc severs the persons connection to the Fade, thus removing any chance of possession, use of magic, or emotion.  A death in the Fade has the same affect.

The Night Terrors quest is an example of a lore-gameplay break.  In that quest the death of anyone in the Fade should have turned them Tranquil according to lore, but because our heroes all have plot-armor they miraculously survive it unscathed.

 Their armors saved them? That's new. I would have figured the writers could come up with a better explanation. I wonder why they couldn't do as in the Fade's quests of Origins and Awakening and just let the bodies of the "dead" scattered around until one of the companions finished the battle. So I take it if the main character and the remaining companion (after two others were killed in Night Terrors) died in the Fade, then they would just wake up in the neighborhood and the game wouldn't say "You were killed; want to start over from the last save?" or something of the sort.

 I am not an English native speaker, so, for what little I've read in this forum, I'm beginning to think I didn't get the meaning of "plot armor" straight.
 There should be a RPG dictionary somewhere. And another for these forums' peculiar terms I tend to find in fanfiction.

Plot armor is what we blame for heroes miraculous ability to survive anything.  It essentially says "the story says they can't die so they won't".  It's like in movies how the bad guys always miss the hero no matter how good a shot they are supposed to be, or the hero survives things that should kill them.

[llandwynwyn]

ACM1989 wrote...

 Their armors saved them?

You actually never kills them. Companions wake up before you have the chance, watch how their health bar still has a bit of life before they disappear from the fade.

[cool74]

rayvioletta wrote...

given how 'well' Anders merging with a spirit works out and that most (at least outside of Kirkwall) Tranquil are made so because of their likelihood to succumb to demonic influence I don't think merging one with a spirit would be a great idea even if it was possible

You mixed up Demons and Sprits there. Demons try to take over a body. While Spirits do a co comand thing. Spirts being beings of human Morals or Values (Faith, Hope, Love, Happiness, Justice, ect.) while demonse are beings of Humans Evial emotions (Jeolousy, Rage, Pride, Hunger, Greed, ect.) So I acutally wonder if Anders still can be considered an abomination instead of a sprite warrior or something around those lines because I do not think he fits the provivded defintion of abomination.

[Ophir147]

We can assume that there is Thedas, and the Fade (which runs parallel to Thedas). Elves and humans enter the Fade when they dream, but Mages are aware of the Fade when they dream. This forms a connection, and since the Fade is essentially a world of dreams, it parallels the minds of those who create it. Thus magic in itself is the manipulation of the power of dreams that manifests in reality, which allows mages to use the power of the fade to "bend the rules of reality."
Tranquil mages are severed from the fade, even more so than non-mages, who may still enter the fade when they dream. Karl was still naturally sensitive to the fade, and when in the presence of Vengeance, he gained a fleeting connection to the fade. This allowed him to gather his senses and beg Anders for a merciful death, before he is sent back into a dreamless existence.
/tinfoil hat theories