53 réponses à ce sujet

[DAO MAdhatter]

If we have cool down periods, we dont need mana, if we have mana we dont need cool down periods. Pick one Bioware!

Right now, Dao & DA 2 are being killed by the  cheap combination of both, HAving a spell take a full minute to be usable again is annoying, but having to constantly down lerium potions to be able to use that ultra slow spell is down right agravating.

[mesmerizedish]

I disagree.

[Volourn]

I hate magic mana systems but not as much as i hate petitions.

[lazuli]

I disagree as well.  Resource systems function well when coupled with cooldowns, as (ideally) it adds to strategic depth and gives developers more than one way to balance an ability.  That said, consumable items should not be the only reliable way to manage resources.  We need more abilities like Bolster or Second Wind.  Learn from Guild Wars, please.

[AlanC9]

So do I.

[Dio Demon]

Mana Bar stops you from having a godlike amount of spells and then casting them all and by the time you have finished casting them all, you can cast them all over again. If you are having problems with mana increase willpower, buy items that increase mana regen. rate ... and equip it.

[lazuli]

Filament wrote...

I say DA should bring back Vancian casting.

Ew.

[Volourn]

D&D magic system si the best magic system. Nothing ewww. about it...

P.S. Even D&D has its 'mana system' as well.

R00fles!

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Filament wrote...

I say DA should bring back Vancian casting.

<3

But a lot of people would complain. So I don't think it's a realistic option.

[UltiPup]

Not sure if serious.

Would you prefer just to have a I Win button?

[marshalleck]

Vancian casting and hack-and-slash "action RPG" melee don't really go together. I mean these two systems are pretty much at odds with each other. With spell memorization you need to think and plan ahead what spells will be in your repertoire--if you're going out hunting basilisks for example you want plenty of either protection against petrification spells or stone to flesh. If you're going after a coven of mages you're going to want tons of dispels and magical effect resistances. With action RPG--and the inherent focus on action--there can be strategy but it tends to develop as a result of what's happening on the battlefield at the moment. You need to use your abilities wisely, but you don't have to plan an entire game day in advance by adapting your memorization, and then spend another game day resetting it.

If they shoe-horned that into Dragon Age it would be disastrous for mages. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 27 avril 2011 - 05:14 .

[Maria Caliban]

Filament wrote...

I say DA should bring back Vancian casting.

We should inscribe runes with our mouse to cast spells like Black and White or Arx Fatlis.

[Cutlass Jack]

Fortunately next game, the mana bar will be removed. Unfortunately, instead you'll have to load 'Lyrium Clips' into your staves that you will use to fire spells. More clips will be left on the battlefield in strategic locations and contained inside the chest cavities of exploded enemies.

Enjoy.

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 27 avril 2011 - 05:13 .

[neppakyo]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Fortunately next game, the mana bar will be removed. Unfortunately, instead you'll have to load 'Lyrium Clips' into your staves that you will use to fire spells. More clips will be left on the battlefield in strategic locations and contained inside the chest cavities of exploded enemies.

Enjoy.

*facepalm* 

Don't give 'em ideas! More pew pew pew's?

[Volourn]

"If they shoe-horned that into Dragon Age it would be disastrous for mages. "

Well, I doubt they're gonan change their magic system in a presumed part 3. No way no how. But, if they were to do so, obviously they would likely work to balance the combat/game world to make it work.

Afterall, DA series combatb (both games) are balanced assuming you have full health, full mana, and access to all your spells/talents for every encounter. That wouldn't be the case with a D&D style magic system.

[marshalleck]

Volourn wrote...

"If they shoe-horned that into Dragon Age it would be disastrous for mages. "

Well, I doubt they're gonan change their magic system in a presumed part 3. No way no how. But, if they were to do so, obviously they would likely work to balance the combat/game world to make it work.

Afterall, DA series combatb (both games) are balanced assuming you have full health, full mana, and access to all your spells/talents for every encounter. That wouldn't be the case with a D&D style magic system.

I honestly thought actual combat mechanics of DA2 were mostly fine. The real problem is mobs spawning out of thin air in waves wreaking havoc with any hope of strategic/tatical play. Fix (read: eliminate) that and you're gold. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 27 avril 2011 - 05:22 .

[noxsachi]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Fortunately next game, the mana bar will be removed. Unfortunately, instead you'll have to load 'Lyrium Clips' into your staves that you will use to fire spells. More clips will be left on the battlefield in strategic locations and contained inside the chest cavities of exploded enemies.

Enjoy.

Is it sad that instead of the horror of ME2 I thought of this instead... I might love Magical Girl things too much though...

Modifié par noxsachi, 27 avril 2011 - 05:23 .

[DAO MAdhatter]

What happened to me in Dao was Even my low cost spell(arcane bolt) was unusable. The staves are garbage even at level 20. So I naturally depend on having seplls constantly available, but that wont happen when I have to wait for my mana to charge back up so I can use a basic spell! Its annoying. Mass Effect only had cool downs & it was very well balanced, If having too many spells makes it inpractacal to remove one, then remove all tho extra spells, It would make the game that less tediouse. Or if they must keep in both, then please  FOR THE LOVE OF THE MAKER lower the mans costs!

[noxsachi]

Filament wrote...

Maria Caliban wrote...

Filament wrote...

I say DA should bring back Vancian casting.

We should inscribe runes with our mouse to cast spells like Black and White or Arx Fatlis.

It actually would be kind of cool if we could draw different spell shapes on the ground.

noxsachi wrote...

Is it sad that instead of the horror of ME2 I thought of this instead... I might love Magical Girl things too much though...

I have to ask, why is the robot speaking English?

I honestly don't remember. I think its just a stylistic choice for the magitec devices. Most use English but there are a few in the series that use German.

[hexaligned]

Maria Caliban wrote...

Filament wrote...

I say DA should bring back Vancian casting.

We should inscribe runes with our mouse to cast spells like Black and White or Arx Fatlis.

I'd take that over the DA system any day.  I'll agree mana in DAO was pointless, you could just spam drink potions and never run out of it.  In DA2 it's a little better thought out and implemented, you need SOME sort of limit put on how many/ how often you can cast in a battle though, either that or severaly reduce how much damage/how usefull magic is.  If you are concerned with balance anyways.  If you aren't you can just play on casual and oneshot everything, mana doesn't come into it.

[AlanC9]

marshalleck wrote...

Vancian casting and hack-and-slash "action RPG" melee don't really go together. I mean these two systems are pretty much at odds with each other. With spell memorization you need to think and plan ahead what spells will be in your repertoire--if you're going out hunting basilisks for example you want plenty of either protection against petrification spells or stone to flesh. If you're going after a coven of mages you're going to want tons of dispels and magical effect resistances. With action RPG--and the inherent focus on action--there can be strategy but it tends to develop as a result of what's happening on the battlefield at the moment. You need to use your abilities wisely, but you don't have to plan an entire game day in advance by adapting your memorization, and then spend another game day resetting it.

If they shoe-horned that into Dragon Age it would be disastrous for mages. 

I don't really follow the logic here, unless you're making the somewhat tautological point that a game can't simultaneously reward planning and not reward planning. There's about as much fighting in BG as there is in DAO.

[Ollymandias]

I think I threw up a little in my mouth. Vancian casting works appallingly in this sort of situation.

Either you haven't played that mission before and you go in with what may be the right spells, what may be the wrong spells depending on how much info you have on what you'll be facing, or you have played it before so you know exactly what spells to memorize.

[marshalleck]

I don't understand how it's hard to follow. In Baldur's Gate, your mages can't cast every spell they know unless you haven't been teaching them new spells (or they are insanely high level). In DAO they can. In Baldur's Gate, or any game where spell memorization is a mechanic, your mages have to plan in advance. It's not an option. They need to decide what spells to memorize, and then memorize them. It may not be careful planning, but it's still planning. In DAO there's no customizing your mage's spell selection for an encounter; any spell they know, they can cast on demand. One system *requires* more planning than the other. How can this fundamental difference be hard to grasp? Also, it has nothing to do with the frequency of combat, although low level mages in a Vancian system are often disadvantaged when they burn through everything they know within the first few rounds of combat and are left with a sling or dagger; by the same token, at high level they nuke the **** out of everything all day long.

As for how that would be bad for mages in DAO, they'd run out of spells and have no way to recover while your rogues and warriors are happily bashing heads and quaffing stamina potions. Sure I suppose Bioware could totally redesign combat in the series, but that goes a bit beyond what I thought was implicit in the statement "bring back Vancian casting." This would be more like "bring back AD&D 2E or 3/3.5E ruleset."

Modifié par marshalleck, 27 avril 2011 - 06:14 .