297 réponses à ce sujet

[Minister of Sound]

lolwut666 wrote...

@JaegerBane

Hyperbole.

And my point is that thet, even if you can handle the Mako, when you compare it to other vehicles from other games, its controls are very poor. The apologists like yourself like to ignore this simple fact for nor reason I can fathom besides trying to convey a sense of superiority.

Anyway, it looks like I pushed a button, so I guess my post hit the nail on head.

If you're going to act as if you're more intelligent than the other forum-goers, then please use proper spelling and grammar.

Otherwise, my only problem with the Mako was targeting.

[lolwut666]

@Minister of Sound

English ain't my native langue, and I think I can speak it well enough, all things considered.

I doubt you can speak my language, so do me a favor and just keep your elitist grammar **** crap to yourself.

[Minister of Sound]

lolwut666 wrote...

@Minister of Sound

English ain't my native langue, and I think I can speak it well enough, all things considered.

I doubt you can speak my language, so do me a favor and just keep your elitist grammar **** crap to yourself.

Then you are excused. Also, I am trillingual.

[TheConfidenceMan]

Mainstream gamers don't want anything unique or different, they want what's familiar and easy to grasp. And what's more familiar and easy to grasp than a shooter? Strip out exploration, strip out role-playing stats, and just give them straight-up shooter gameplay with straight-up shooter levels and dismiss everything else as "boring".

[Ahglock]

elitecom wrote...

Those pictures have so much atmosphere in them, it's just amazing to watch.

Actually there is very little atmosphere in those pictures.

Insert rimshot sound here.  

While the mako was far from perfect, it handeled decently on the PC.  The main thing it added was the feel of a larger unirverse to explore.  Which yes added a great atmosphere to the game.  I want that feeling back for ME3, I'm not really expecting it though.

[Sphynx118]

The mako handled like a fat guy in a shopping trolley.The end.
Saying its controls were great if you learned to use them is retarded.

I can learn to run with a skateboard on my left foot and a piece of cheese on my right, doesnt make it a good option just cuz i can learn do it. It makes me pants on head retarded.
Pretty much like the people who think the mako had ok control

[AlanC9]

And RPG fans want progression and exploration even if they make no sense for the situation.

[Ahglock]

Sphynx118 wrote...

The mako handled like a fat guy in a shopping trolley.The end.
Saying its controls were great if you learned to use them is retarded.

I can learn to run with a skateboard on my left foot and a piece of cheese on my right, doesnt make it a good option just cuz i can learn do it. It makes me pants on head retarded.
Pretty much like the people who think the mako had ok control

It did have okay control.  Not great control but okay.  And why is learn to play a great thing to say when you are the perosn okay with a feature, but it is just dumb when you suck at it.  

[88mphSlayer]

uh huh

[Had-to-say]

The Mako was an ATV in space and it had bad control but I loved every minute of it and I still play it.

[nelly21]

The mako handled so badly they had to make it physically impossible to flip over. And then there was the combat. Jesus H. Christ the combat.

[Rurik_Niall]

JaegerBane wrote...

That's what I was thinking. The barren landscapes did get a little samey by the end of the game, but it did make the universe quite plausible and set up some very 2001-esque moments (I still remember following that anomalous signal on Tuntau, only to get over the crest of the mountain and see that it was coming from a mysterious pyramid off in the distance).

To be honest I never did get the harsher comments regarding the choice of landscapes. If people got as sick of them as their comments would suggest, then why did they visit all of them?

We visit them because we don't have much of an option. Do you know how many play throughs it would take to hit level 60 if you didn't do all of the sidequests and just stuck with the main plot? It's effectively trading one tedious option for another tedious option that takes even longer.

Exploration is a great thing, but it needs to be done well. Look at the Elder Scrolls games, they're famous for their exploration. Morrowind consists of a single island, two if you have the Bloodmoon expansion and a city on the mainland with Tribunal. That one island from the base game alone has more diversity that every uncharted planet in Mass Effect combined and feels considerably larger than any of them. Exploring the land of Morrowind never feels like a chore because every area is unique, and no matter how many times I replay that game I'm always finding new Dwemer ruins, new slaver dens, new mines to explore.

Contrast this with Mass Effect, where every planet has a small barren landscape that looks just like every other small barren landscape with a different texture and skybox applied with all key points of interest marked on your map, there's no reason to actually explore the planet, just drive to the three or four points on your map, possibly fight a thresher, and kill some space monkeys or giant space ticks or something if you're feeling sadistic and leave. At best you might discover some resources that you hadn't found in previous plays, not quite as exciting as finding a new slaver den to clear out is it?

[Village_Idiot]

The Mako admittedly handled like a antelope trying to navigate an oil slick, and its guns only fired where you aimed if you asked REALLY nicely. However, the planet exploration aspect it enabled was overall pretty good (save for the occasional cliff-scaling frustration) and certainly gave ME1 a much greater sense of scale and variety than its successor. An improved vehicle and environments that don't need an airlift to pass would be a welcome addition in ME3.

As for the Hammerhead, I can see why BW took the route they did with it- rather than improve the Mako's handling, they took a simpler option and gave it wings. I felt that the Hammerhead lacked the same off-road "feel" that the Mako had- exploring a planet felt less invigorating when I was flying 10 feet over it rather than traversing the terrain.

And the weapon is still awful.

Oh, and the armour seems to be made out of cardboard.

[JaegerBane]

Sphynx118 wrote...

The mako handled like a fat guy in a shopping trolley.The end.
Saying its controls were great if you learned to use them is retarded.

I can learn to run with a skateboard on my left foot and a piece of cheese on my right, doesnt make it a good option just cuz i can learn do it. It makes me pants on head retarded.
Pretty much like the people who think the mako had ok control

I just love the lack of logic in the above post. 'I think it's bad anyone who disagrees with me is a retard because they can control it better'. Did you even think through what you posted above? That anyone who can do better than you is a retard? Give me a break.

If you were using the xbox controller, you probably found it harder, due to (according to comments on the forum) the xbox control scheme for the Mako was b0rked. That's all very well, but isn't a reason to claim there was something inherently wrong with the Mako's controls - like I said, there isn't any significant difference to how it was controlled than things like UT2004/3's hellbender or Pariah's Buggy (or hell, even the buggy out of the Avatar game barring speed). I can only speak for PC controls, however.

Regardless, trying to trumpet your inability to control the Mako easily as some sort of reason for intellectual superiority is frankly, absurd.

[Rurik_Niall]

Claiming that the controls aren't terrible when a sufficient number of people complained about them to have the vehicle sent to the Scrappy heap where it belongs is equally absurd. Good controls need to be intuitive, simple, and effective, the Mako was none of these.

[JaegerBane]

Rurik_Niall wrote...
We visit them because we don't have much of an option. Do you know how many play throughs it would take to hit level 60 if you didn't do all of the sidequests and just stuck with the main plot? It's effectively trading one tedious option for another tedious option that takes even longer.

The point is that they're still optional. If you're wanting to hit 60 than yes, it can be a chore to do so thanks to the relative lack of content on the planets.... but them's the breaks with trying to max out the level cap. It's not like grinding and other tricks  for doing so in other RPGs are any more fun.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the lack of content - I was more getting at people describe a completely optional section as being mind-numbingly boring - inevitably the question of why one does such boring sections when they're not needed comes up.

The point about Morrowind is a fair one, yes, but it's a little disengenous. The level of content Morrowind packed into it's landmass was possible *precisely* because it was such a small area (to such an extent there were areas in Morrowind I had a bit of difficulty taking seriously... there were areas where you couldn't walk for 10 seconds without stumbling on a Daedric shrine or a haunted ruin). For a game like Mass Effect, that approach just wouldn't work - each area often supports a single sidequest, it just isn't realistic to land on a desert planet and find it chock full of monsters, towns, oddities and bases. Consider the Shadow Planet from Pitch Black - do you think that would have worked if over the next hill was a giant city and over the other hill there was a giant alien ruin with caves etc? ME is trying to replicate the kind of stuff seen in Star Trek or Babylon 5 episodes, a certain amount of isolation is needed for them to work.

Feasibility aside, you can't really do the kind of sidequests ME does in such a crowded area. Not least since you're not on foot.

[JaegerBane]

Rurik_Niall wrote...

Claiming that the controls aren't terrible when a sufficient number of people complained about them to have the vehicle sent to the Scrappy heap where it belongs is equally absurd. Good controls need to be intuitive, simple, and effective, the Mako was none of these.

Well, the proof is in the pudding, Rurik. Everyone agrees that the controls weren't great, but not everyone is claiming they were absolutely horrible and that anyone who disagrees is retarded. If some people can manage something ans some can't, all things being equal it isn't normal for the ones who succeeded to be defined as being 'wrong'.

I mean, to put it bluntly, I'm not really sure what was so counter-intuitive about the Mako. Virtually the only part that caught me off-guard was that the A and D keys actually moved the vehicle in that direction as oppose to simply turning them. Trying to claim that this single change instantly made it 'complex, ineffective and counter-intuitive' isn't really justifiable point. IIRC the Scorpion on the PC version of Halo handled *exactly* the same, barring the jump jets.

Of course, this is from a PC angle. I've never played the Xbox version so I can't comment, but judging from the vitriol against a control scheme that was pretty straightforward on PC, I can only assume that there was a major difference in how it worked.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 29 avril 2011 - 07:38 .

[termokanden]

I still believe the easiest way to hit 60 is to do 3 playthroughs. 2 of them without ANY sidequests. That would take maybe 8-10 hours total. Then you do a proper full playthrough with all the right decisions. As a bonus, you can get 12 charm or 12 intimidate for free.

It takes a while yeah, but I think it's quicker than doing 2 full playthroughs.

[Rurik_Niall]

JaegerBane wrote...

Well, the proof is in the pudding, Rurik. Everyone agrees that the controls weren't great, but not everyone is claiming they were absolutely horrible and that anyone who disagrees is retarded. If some people can manage something ans some can't, all things being equal it isn't normal for the ones who succeeded to be defined as being 'wrong'.

I mean, to put it bluntly, I'm not really sure what was so counter-intuitive about the Mako. Virtually the only part that caught me off-guard was that the A and D keys actually moved the vehicle in that direction as oppose to simply turning them. Trying to claim that this single change instantly made it 'complex, ineffective and counter-intuitive' isn't really justifiable point. IIRC the Scorpion on the PC version of Halo handled *exactly* the same, barring the jump jets.

Of course, this is from a PC angle. I've never played the Xbox version so I can't comment, but judging from the vitriol against a control scheme that was pretty straightforward on PC, I can only assume that there was a major difference in how it worked.

Oh not saying that you're wrong about the fact that saying being able to handle it makes you dumber, just pointing out that when a significant number of people say the controls suck that means they do indeed suck, if they didn't then the number of people who agree on how useless the Mako's controls are would be considerably smaller. The controls may be intuitive enough for you, but in order for them to be good controls the majority needs to agree that they're intuitive. And for the record, they suck on the PC as well, I happen to play on the PC, the fact that they're worse on the Boxorz of Roxorz version just makes me shudder at the thought of how bad they must be.

[baryonic member]

I want to be able to chose which vehicle to use, and then have customization and upgrades for that vehicle, ok

[JaegerBane]

Rurik_Niall wrote...
Oh not saying that you're wrong about the fact that saying being able to handle it makes you dumber, just pointing out that when a significant number of people say the controls suck that means they do indeed suck, if they didn't then the number of people who agree on how useless the Mako's controls are would be considerably smaller.

Actually all it means they could be improved - if they 'sucked', were 'terrible' etc then *no-one* would have found them functional, like the controls for the VTOL in Crysis. The fact that the majority (if indeed there is one) consider them bad just means they're not perfect, any label added is basically fallacious.

Understand that I'm not claiming they were ever particularly great, or intuitive for that matter, just that at no point did I feel they were a barrier to gameplay. Which, if I've understood the others correctly, is what the others who weren't bothered were also saying.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 29 avril 2011 - 08:24 .

[Ashathor]

I was fine with the controls of the Mako. Only problems I had with it was that it had HORRIBLE handling, terrain was sometimes WAY too harsh, and combat was ok but the run-over thing was buggy and some of the fights just felt like it was taking too long.

[DRSH]

Mako yes! repetitive side quests... no!

[Chaos Gate]

Rurik_Niall wrote...

Claiming that the controls aren't terrible when a sufficient number of people complained about them to have the vehicle sent to the Scrappy heap where it belongs is equally absurd. Good controls need to be intuitive, simple, and effective, the Mako was none of these.

I found the Mako's controls intuitive, simple and effective, and I find some of the negative responses in this thread very much embellished and way over the top.

[Ahglock]

Rurik_Niall wrote...

Claiming that the controls aren't terrible when a sufficient number of people complained about them to have the vehicle sent to the Scrappy heap where it belongs is equally absurd. Good controls need to be intuitive, simple, and effective, the Mako was none of these.

A suffient numnber of people have complained about defenses stopping powers cold in ME2.  Others said LTP, who is right?  Does a sufficient number of people claiming something always make it right?