192 réponses à ce sujet

[Elhanan]

Velcro? Magic? Really big magnets? No?

I go with unique Talents that NPC's get, like swirling lights and really fast movement. And I rather like picking them off while they are 'landing'.

[Dragoonlordz]

Rockpopple wrote...

Dragoonlordz wrote...

doloreg wrote...

In DA:O, many darkspawn appeared out of thin air without animation, making a fuss about either is silly, but it's da2, you must hate it to be trendy.

No they didn't.

They did, actually, but that was more of an effect of being 'drawn in' too slowly.

No.. They did not. There is a difference between waves and creating an initial set of mobs prior to entering a place via the loading screen, hence why on most battles in DAO all mobs are in the same place and there are not waves of more enemies coming in each time you clear the original ones.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 27 avril 2011 - 03:29 .

[Rockpopple]

@Dragoonlordz - That's... actually what I said.

When Darkspawn appeared out of thin air, it wasn't because of a wave mechanic, it was because they drew in too slowly when the room loaded.

Settle....

[Dragoonlordz]

Rockpopple wrote...

@Dragoonlordz - That's... actually what I said.

When Darkspawn appeared out of thin air, it wasn't because of a wave mechanic, it was because they drew in too slowly when the room loaded.

Settle....

My point initially stands, in DAO they never used the 'waves' system with exception of 2-3 times for example the Archdemon fight where reinforcements were used but never dropped from the sky and instead used the doorways. They also never dropped from the sky at all in any fights that I can recall. The speed of your computer slowing down the refresh rate and loading progress as move around is not the fault of the game. In DA2 the waves system and ninja drops are the fault of the game because it is the way it was designed and no speed of computer can change that.

Modifié par Dragoonlordz, 27 avril 2011 - 03:37 .

[bzombo]

i like the waves, but i think maybe they should be used more logically. spiders coming down from the ceiling makes sense, bandits from rooftops makes sense, and so do demons out of the ground. they seem to be in the overwhelming majority of fights, so it becomes cheapened. maybe fights where waves would be stupid should just have a few more enemies added.

[AkiKishi]

Maverick827 wrote...

BobSmith101 wrote...

Not really, it's just this time they have gone so over the top that anyone with eyes will notice it. It's like the reused stuff, many games do it in moderation, DA2 does it in a cynical and obvious manner.

What?

2. Selfishly or callously calculating: showed a cynical disregard for the safety of his troops in his efforts to advance his reputation.

Replace regard for safety of troops for feelings of customer base and efforts to advance reputation with profit.

We already have Mike Laidlaw saying it in interviews in case you feel like arguing the point.

[MrProliferation]

I like the waves more than I like what you eventually did in DAO. Once you've played through once you know where all the enemies are going to be so you just have your mages cast Storm of the Century and they're all dead before they get anywhere near you. Rinse, repeat. I appreciate that DA2 does try to break you up tactically by having people flank you. Maybe it could be done more delicately, but I take it over the DAO system of having everything in the same preset place always so you can nuke them and your warriors never even have to swing their swords.

[Night Prowler76]

No.

[daemon1129]

I don't have problems with these kind of things. It is a game after all. I think it is the waves that makes no sense is the problem. Every time you kill the enemy elite, you would expect that is the end of it, but every time more trash just appears out of no where and suicide attacks. It would be better if the elite comes last, to take advantage of your skills in CD. Also it makes a bit more sense.

[erynnar]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Ninjas are the natural enemy of Pirates. So I was already used to it before I ever picked up DA2.

*SNORT*  Oh Jack, I do love you.  You never fail to make me giggle, and I so needed that. 

Yeah I usually like ninjas, but not these. And, no, we can't stop talking about them. Especially the people in full plate armor with shields and swords falling from a three stroy building. If they really did, they'd break their legs and be easy pickings. I could get behind them then, I like murder knife.

[grey_savant]

Enemies appearing mid-battle added more interest to the fighting. They were reasonably done, and I'm beginning to think those who complain about them are pansies.

[Cutlass Jack]

erynnar wrote...
If they really did, they'd break their legs and be easy pickings. I could get behind them then, I like murder knife.

Let me go on record officially as saying I'd be completely fine with this option. In fact I'd enjoy it quite a bit. Call it 'Ultra-Casual' mode if you'd like.


Hopefully It would look something like this.

[Statulos]

grey_savant wrote...

Enemies appearing mid-battle added more interest to the fighting. They were reasonably done, and I'm beginning to think those who complain about them are pansies.

The problem for me is not the wave, it's the way it was implemented. For me, one of the most important elements in an RPG is inmersion and the people doing the 101 Death From Above thing destoys inmersion.

Also, in gameplay terms it kills a lot of tactical thinking. If you have a character covering a possible line of advance (an alley) or barricading themselves on higher ground, the "paratroopers" destoy that in seconds.

[Dragoonlordz]

grey_savant wrote...

Enemies appearing mid-battle added more interest to the fighting. They were reasonably done, and I'm beginning to think those who complain about them are pansies.

Thats where your problem is, you just don't 'think' given your insult to others calling them pansies because they don't agree that Jutsu styling of moves, Mortal Kombat gorefest of body parts or even every single NPC in the game knows a teleportation spell making them all apostates in reality; works for Dragon Age titles.

[erynnar]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

erynnar wrote...
If they really did, they'd break their legs and be easy pickings. I could get behind them then, I like murder knife.

Let me go on record officially as saying I'd be completely fine with this option. In fact I'd enjoy it quite a bit. Call it 'Ultra-Casual' mode if you'd like.


Hopefully It would look something like this.

HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Okay just about spit coffee all over my keyboard at work!  Really ultra casual mode!

[erynnar]

Dragoonlordz wrote...

grey_savant wrote...

Enemies appearing mid-battle added more interest to the fighting. They were reasonably done, and I'm beginning to think those who complain about them are pansies.

Thats where your problem is, you just don't 'think' given your insult to others calling them pansies because they don't agree that Jutsu styling of moves, Mortal Kombat gorefest of body parts or even every single NPC in the game knows a teleportation spell making them all apostates in reality; works for Dragon Age titles.

And this^ Enuf said.

[macrocarl]

I liked waves, but I think more animations of them coming out from behind stuff or opening doors etc. Same with summoning Dog. Use waves when i t makes sense is all. Calling BW 'lazy' though is a bit harsh. There is some pretty amazing improvements in DA2 as well.

[Nexpeed]

I even would like to have this drop from sky technique on Mass Effect games, or maybe they should have an idea of some enemies in Mass Effect using miniature mass relays to do that

[Persephone]

I'd like to see them implemented with more care and occurring less often. Much as I disliked DAO's shuffling and despite my (slight) preference for the way DAII handled it, I think the waves were overdone. An example where they made sense: High Dragon/Dragon in the DR calling its dragonlings.

Example where they did not make sense: Spiders dropping from the (open!) sky.

So maybe making dungeons a bit larger (But not DR large, PLEASE!) and placing bosses & a variety of mobs in addition to waves that make sense could be a solution.

But I know very little about how that would work programming wise, it's just what I would like.:happy:

[Cutlass Jack]

erynnar wrote...

HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!! Okay just about spit coffee all over my keyboard at work!  Really ultra casual mode!

I really can't believe I haven't seen someone link that clip before in one of the many threads on the ninja topic we've had. So couldn't resist.

Sorry about the keyboard!

[Maverick827]

Persephone wrote...

But I know very little about how that would work programming wise, it's just what I would like.:happy:

It would actually take zero actual programming.

Game environments these days are built with "developer kits" that allow for drag-and-drop construction of maps, events, and characters ("actors," as the Unreal Development Kit, a free version of the Unreal Engine, calls them).  I'd wager that the in-house developer's kit for Dragon Age has an object to spawn enemies ("Actor Factory," again in the UDK) which a designer can select from a list and drag directly into an environment.  This object would have variables concerning how many enemies spawn, what type of enemies spawn, the frequency of spawning, etc.

A lot of the creation processs these days is done with absolutely no programming knowledge, and is basically like a game-within-a-game.

[Sussurus]

The only way to avoid waves is to make encounters based on the same system as the PC's.
Instead of 12, then 12, then 12 raiders, ninja's, bandits.. etc, of various ranks, all with the same darn skills and talents.

Have between 2 - 12 members of a group, no ranks just classes, levels, attributes, skills, health, mana and talents the same as a player party.
Then stick them placed on a map, like DA:O.
Then script them to have a vicous and cunning A:I, using various metheods to defeat your party.

This way any rogue can be a deadly assassin.. at the expense of health or stamina.
A fighter can be a tank at the expense of being focused on one thing.
A mage can be a glass cannon, a buffer, a disabler, a damager... etc.
Or any other number of the many variations to party and class.

What you have with waves in DA:2, is simply an arcade shoot'em up, or whack a mole game.

Modifié par Sussurus, 27 avril 2011 - 05:29 .

[Serpieri Nei]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

OhoniX wrote...

The enemies that "drop from the sky" are all bandits, and they only do so when in two-story areas, from locations where it's perfectly plausible for ambushing bandits to be lying in wait.

So these bandits were clinging to the rafters like Spiderman?

Wait, they have Spiderman powers? Then it's only fair that I get wolverine claws and some adamantium armor. Perfectly pluaisble? Talk about laughable. Bioware dropped the ball on DA, and what we got was a mediocre product. What I find scary is that some people are willing to pay for mediocracy. If thats the new trend, then I need to get out of my current business and sell crap for fast cash.

Modifié par Serpieri Nei, 27 avril 2011 - 05:41 .

[Persephone]

Serpieri Nei wrote...

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

OhoniX wrote...

The enemies that "drop from the sky" are all bandits, and they only do so when in two-story areas, from locations where it's perfectly plausible for ambushing bandits to be lying in wait.

So these bandits were clinging to the rafters like Spiderman?

 What I find scary is that some people are willing to pay for mediocracy.

People are buying a society model? Where can I get them?

Oh...you meant -Mediocrity-.....

:innocent: