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[Darth Wraith]

A former employee of BioWare, now indie developer, has a guest blog on Tales of the Rampant Coyote where he talks about lessons learned at BioWare. While this no doubt will elicit the usual entitlement rage, he makes some extremely valid points. Link below:

rampantgames.com/blog/

[John Epler]

Darth Wraith wrote...

catofnine wrote...

KilrB wrote...

My magic hat had better be black.

Mine better come with cookies.  In honor of Sten of course.

OP: thanks for the link. 

Re: forum reading ...I think most of the devs and writers who post here do have a thick skin for swimming in sewage.

I certainly hope they do. If I was on the dev team and read these forums every day I'd be popping Prozac like it was M&Ms. I don't for a moment believe that there was some sort of malicious intent behind the way DA2 turned out; I think BioWare merely tried some new ideas, some of which worked and some of which did not.

For me, at least, it's understanding and recognizing the difference between people who are vitirolic because they are emotionally involved to the point that they have a hard time controlling themselves, and people who are vitriolic because, well, they revel in the anonymity that the internet provides. The former, you have to ignore the emotional content and get to the why - why do they feel that way? What is it that's causing that reaction, and how can it be addressed (if it -can- be addressed)? As for the latter, well, you'll get that regardless of whether you're a developer for a game studio or a guy posting about hockey, and if you take it too personally, you're not going to last long on the internet.

[David Gaider]

Rockpopple wrote...
I suppose that would come down to recognizing who's doing the posting, wouldn't it? I mean, if you didn't spend any time on the forums, I imagine it'd be impossible to tell who was reacting because of emotion and who was just trolling.

It's very easy for all the responses to kind of blur together-- that happens even to those of us who do spend time here. Heck, I'd say most of the regular posters do it from time to time as well. If you start imagining the fans as a collective unit without distinguishing between them it really seems like they're a group that has no idea what it wants and wouldn't like it even if you gave it to them.

It's not quite true, of course, but I certainly don't fault the majority of developers for not bothering. The idea that any developer would feel beholden to sift through masses of posts in search of that golden nugget of wisdom is probably something you're only going to find on the forums-- I think for most developers it's a little baffling and they'd really much rather just get on with their work. I mean, who wouldn't?

Of course there are people here who are interested, both official and unofficial (like John and myself). We do it because it would be worse, in our opinions, to develop in a vacuum. Not that developing in a committee would be any better, of course, and despite the fact that some fans seem to mistake the forums for one it still can be really useful to get the feedback here-- as blunt as it may occasionally be.

[David Gaider]

Eollodwyn wrote...
I want so badly to sit in on one of those brainstorming meetings. It would be magical.

It's also sometimes painful. We can argue just as much as folks on the forums, and have an equally diverse range of opinions on what's a good idea as you'll find here. What's more, we have more of a personal stake in it. Of course, we're also professionals... but we're also professional nerds. So it's not quite the same thing.

[David Gaider]

-Skorpious- wrote...
In short, we criticize harshly because we love you; not because we hate you or find delight  in your failures/shortcomings.

PS - Although I've been constantly referring to the fanbase as "we", I cannot truly speak for anyone besides myself. Your willingness to put up with, well, you know, on a daily basis is a trait I appreciate and respect about you and your company. 

Well, your last point should be kept in mind-- because there very much have been people who (for example) have wished me death and/or failure, whether they believe I am responsible for everything they dislike or I simply make a convenient target. Is that supposed to be haha funny? Is a developer supposed to want to expose themselves to that kind of vitriol, and enjoy it? According to those people we should want it, like it, and take notes... at which point the only rational response is to go "oookaaay" and simply go back to work.

You can't speak for them. You don't know if they mean it any more than I do-- I just have to take it on faith that they do it because they like games. A lot. There are days, however, when I'd very much just rather not deal with it, as I'm certainly under no obligation to.

For those who are passionate out of caring, like you mention, it can be very worthwhile interaction. Hopefully for us both.

Modifié par David Gaider, 27 avril 2011 - 07:54 .

[David Gaider]

DanteCousland wrote...
But its the internet, you will get things like that. If you don't like it just leave or ignore it. I don't know maybe your not allowed to, just a thought.

Of course I can just not come here, as most developers do. The question, in the end, is whether you as the fan want us to.

Modifié par David Gaider, 27 avril 2011 - 08:09 .

[John Epler]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

DanteCousland wrote...
But its the internet, you will get things like that. If you don't like it just leave or ignore it. I don't know maybe your not allowed to, just a thought.

Of course I can just not come here, as most developers do. The question, in the end, is whether you as the fan want us to.

David,

I can only speak for myself, of course. But personally, I believe it's wonderful to be able to discuss this game with you and other devs who come here and talk to us. Being an avid reader, your posts interest me especially, given the position you hold at Bioware. Also, I think it's rather amazing how you guys are dealing with some of the things that have been going on here. I for one, would never want you to stop coming here. DAO and DAII are two of my favorite games (Though I'd call neither perfect) and to be able to discuss them with their Lead Writer is a cherished privilege. (Even if I may disagree with you on occasion. )

Just how far do you think your brown-nosing will take you, Persephony? Acknowledgement, perhaps? Ending up on one of the developers friends list, even? Just curious.

Truly, my friends list is a hallowed place, where only the finest of brown nosers may post.

I mean, there's not a single person on there that has ever expressed a negative opinion about the game.

And thus I spend my snark credit for the month.

[John Epler]

erynnar wrote...


ROFL! I just love when you do anything, "cajun style," as I have family who are. That always tickles my funnybone.  Really thank you for all you do (ohhhh I am brown nosing, do I get on the list? Will the red velvet rope be raised?) .

Okay I have spent my snark quotient now.

You'll have to credit James Carville's appearance on 30 Rock for that particular lock phrase. Otherwise, it'd just be boring ol' 'Locking.', except when I see an opportunity to quote something else.

And I think I've rejected maaaybe one friend request since I started posting regularly. And that was because that person had, moments previous, spammed all the boards with various messages.

Otherwise, I like to talk and discuss with folks, regardless of their feelings on DA2. I don't think someone feeling differently about a consumer product (even if it's one I worked on) should preclude me from having anything in common with them. I mean, I successfully work alongside Calgary Flames fans on a daily basis, so what's one game?

[John Epler]

Now that we've gone completely off-topic (aided and abetted by myself, to be fair), let's try and claw our way at least somewhat back on-topic.

[David Gaider]

Statulos wrote...
If there is something I appreciate from you and Mr. Epler is the fact that you stand up and talk here. One of my fave developers, Paradox, does this too and I really, really appreciate the attitude.

Ah, Paradox.

I mod for Victoria 2 (my own little do-something-not-RPG-related hobby) so I know whereof you speak.

Yes, I do not agree with many of the decissions taken in DA2 in script terms but that´s not because you turned into an evil monster who eats babies for breakfast overnight and suddenly made it al wrong.

But... I like babies.

Fried.

I actually miss that "Gaideresque" component full of cynicism (HK47, Shale) or tragic romance (Morrigan, Viconia) in this new Dragon Age game.

Speaking personally, I try not to do the exact same thing every time out of the gate. I might return to characters like HK47 or Shale in the future, it's hard to say. As long as Mary and Luke and Sheryl are about, however, I'm certain there will be no shortage of characters with snark.

To each his own: I think you guys could have done quite much better on DA2. The fact that you´re here and listen to us speaks loud about personal dignity and professionalism irregarless of the game you worked in.

Here's to endeavouring to doing better, then.