A former employee of BioWare, now indie developer, has a guest blog on Tales of the Rampant Coyote where he talks about lessons learned at BioWare. While this no doubt will elicit the usual entitlement rage, he makes some extremely valid points. Link below:
rampantgames.com/blog/
Former BioWare employee blogs on Rampant Coyote
Débuté par
Darth Wraith
, avril 27 2011 12:51
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#3
Guest_Guest12345_*
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 12:59
Guest_Guest12345_*
Guest_Guest12345_*
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nice read, thanks for posting.
#4
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 01:01
DTKT
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Interesting.
Quite a shame about devs and forums. I wish there was other ways to provide feedback.
Quite a shame about devs and forums. I wish there was other ways to provide feedback.
#5
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 01:04
elearon1
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It is a good blog, if short, that reveals some interesting insight about what one should expect entering and working in the field.
#6
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 01:20
Maverick827
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When he started to quote that saying about RPG design, did anyone else expect it to go a little differently?
There’s a saying. I’m not sure who said it first, but I first heard it while at BioWare. It goes, “Fool me once...
Modifié par Maverick827, 27 avril 2011 - 01:20 .
#7
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 01:29
Ulicus
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... shame on you. Fool me twice, watch it! I'm huge!
Squeak!
Squeak!
Modifié par Ulicus, 27 avril 2011 - 01:29 .
#8
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 01:39
000110011
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Interesting read. A pity about the forum thing, though.
#9
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 01:41
Pious_Augustus
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I am going to save it to read when I get home from work I wouldn't doubt EA's legal department might send a cease and well you know 
#10
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 01:47
Rockpopple
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An interesting read but not really Dragon Age II related.... expect a lockdown.
#11
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 02:19
MrTijger
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I'm guessing the nay sayers arent going to like this little dose of reality.
#13
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 03:14
elearon1
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Pious_Augustus wrote...
I wouldn't doubt EA's legal department might send a cease and well you know
Considering the blog is overall very possitive, I doubt they'd feel any reason to send a cease and desist order. I don't hear them closing down the opinions of reviewers and bloggers who outright shovel hate on them about DA2; why should they do so here?
#14
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 03:19
catofnine
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KilrB wrote...
My magic hat had better be black.
Mine better come with cookies. In honor of Sten of course.
OP: thanks for the link.
Re: forum reading ...I think most of the devs and writers who post here do have a thick skin for swimming in sewage.
#15
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 03:55
Darth Wraith
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I certainly hope they do. If I was on the dev team and read these forums every day I'd be popping Prozac like it was M&Ms. I don't for a moment believe that there was some sort of malicious intent behind the way DA2 turned out; I think BioWare merely tried some new ideas, some of which worked and some of which did not.catofnine wrote...
KilrB wrote...
My magic hat had better be black.
Mine better come with cookies. In honor of Sten of course.
OP: thanks for the link.
Re: forum reading ...I think most of the devs and writers who post here do have a thick skin for swimming in sewage.
#16
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 03:56
smooth_operator
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I understand what he's saying but then you look at the lazy rush job of DA2, cut/paste environments and think "did they really think this would satisfy their fans?"
#17
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 04:22
cindercatz
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He's describing basic human nature, both on the fans' part and the devs'. I don't blame anybody for feeling jaded, but you have to guard against that. Somebody is going to complain. no matter what you do, but you also have to be humble enough to consider their points of view and critically re-evaluate your own work. It sucks when you poor your blood, sweat, and tears into something, and then you get savage criticism for your efforts, but you can always do better, and sometimes your critics can help you do that.
I've read that TV Tropes fandom list before, and it's trash. Not one of those stereotypes exists. There are chains of behavior and communication that go along all of those lines, but nobody is going to consistently fall into any given category. All that list does is describe logical chains of behavior and then dismisses anybody involved and any concerns they have. That mindset is counter productive and ultimately destructive. People are not charicatures. If they act a certain way, it's because there are a number of factors that lead them to do so. Maybe one of those factors is that they're in some way crazy, but you should never assume such. People can fall into any of those categories one day, and any other the next, based entirely on their honest reaction to any new information they take in and the path along which their specific relationships and interactions develope. If you dismiss them as any given stereotype, you've failed to consider their point of view, and you've failed to look critically at yourself, your position, and/or your own work, you've poisoned your relationship, and that only hurts you.
Everyone should always take each new piece of information, every interaction at face value. If you just do that, you can gain greater insight and growth yourself, even when you end up simply deciding to disagree or reinforcing your own position or point of view,
Condescension is never helpful.
I've read that TV Tropes fandom list before, and it's trash. Not one of those stereotypes exists. There are chains of behavior and communication that go along all of those lines, but nobody is going to consistently fall into any given category. All that list does is describe logical chains of behavior and then dismisses anybody involved and any concerns they have. That mindset is counter productive and ultimately destructive. People are not charicatures. If they act a certain way, it's because there are a number of factors that lead them to do so. Maybe one of those factors is that they're in some way crazy, but you should never assume such. People can fall into any of those categories one day, and any other the next, based entirely on their honest reaction to any new information they take in and the path along which their specific relationships and interactions develope. If you dismiss them as any given stereotype, you've failed to consider their point of view, and you've failed to look critically at yourself, your position, and/or your own work, you've poisoned your relationship, and that only hurts you.
Everyone should always take each new piece of information, every interaction at face value. If you just do that, you can gain greater insight and growth yourself, even when you end up simply deciding to disagree or reinforcing your own position or point of view,
Condescension is never helpful.
#18
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 04:33
John Epler
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Darth Wraith wrote...
I certainly hope they do. If I was on the dev team and read these forums every day I'd be popping Prozac like it was M&Ms. I don't for a moment believe that there was some sort of malicious intent behind the way DA2 turned out; I think BioWare merely tried some new ideas, some of which worked and some of which did not.catofnine wrote...
KilrB wrote...
My magic hat had better be black.
Mine better come with cookies. In honor of Sten of course.
OP: thanks for the link.
Re: forum reading ...I think most of the devs and writers who post here do have a thick skin for swimming in sewage.
For me, at least, it's understanding and recognizing the difference between people who are vitirolic because they are emotionally involved to the point that they have a hard time controlling themselves, and people who are vitriolic because, well, they revel in the anonymity that the internet provides. The former, you have to ignore the emotional content and get to the why - why do they feel that way? What is it that's causing that reaction, and how can it be addressed (if it -can- be addressed)? As for the latter, well, you'll get that regardless of whether you're a developer for a game studio or a guy posting about hockey, and if you take it too personally, you're not going to last long on the internet.
#19
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 04:39
Rockpopple
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I suppose that would come down to recognizing who's doing the posting, wouldn't it? I mean, if you didn't spend any time on the forums, I imagine it'd be impossible to tell who was reacting because of emotion and who was just trolling.
#20
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 05:13
David Gaider
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Rockpopple wrote...
I suppose that would come down to recognizing who's doing the posting, wouldn't it? I mean, if you didn't spend any time on the forums, I imagine it'd be impossible to tell who was reacting because of emotion and who was just trolling.
It's very easy for all the responses to kind of blur together-- that happens even to those of us who do spend time here. Heck, I'd say most of the regular posters do it from time to time as well. If you start imagining the fans as a collective unit without distinguishing between them it really seems like they're a group that has no idea what it wants and wouldn't like it even if you gave it to them.
It's not quite true, of course, but I certainly don't fault the majority of developers for not bothering. The idea that any developer would feel beholden to sift through masses of posts in search of that golden nugget of wisdom is probably something you're only going to find on the forums-- I think for most developers it's a little baffling and they'd really much rather just get on with their work. I mean, who wouldn't?
Of course there are people here who are interested, both official and unofficial (like John and myself). We do it because it would be worse, in our opinions, to develop in a vacuum. Not that developing in a committee would be any better, of course, and despite the fact that some fans seem to mistake the forums for one it still can be really useful to get the feedback here-- as blunt as it may occasionally be.
#21
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 05:18
Eollodwyn
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I want so badly to sit in on one of those brainstorming meetings. It would be magical.
#22
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 05:24
David Gaider
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Eollodwyn wrote...
I want so badly to sit in on one of those brainstorming meetings. It would be magical.
It's also sometimes painful. We can argue just as much as folks on the forums, and have an equally diverse range of opinions on what's a good idea as you'll find here. What's more, we have more of a personal stake in it. Of course, we're also professionals... but we're also professional nerds. So it's not quite the same thing.
#23
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 05:26
Teddie Sage
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Professional nerds... Oh man, I'm getting chills in my backbone. And they're good chills. XD I'm saving that line for my love! 
#24
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 05:26
Rockpopple
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Honestly, I've always wanted creators to have a vision and stick to it. Listening to fan opinion is great and all, but like you said, there's just too much varying opinions to figure out "what the fans want."
I honestly think if any creator has fans, it because the fans took the good and bad of what was created in the first place, so instead of being moved this way or that by the fandom, creators should always stick to their vision.
People are just too hard to please either way. And they're generally afraid of change. I know a lot of people get their dander up when I say this, but it's true. When people have something they like, they generally don't want any changes to it, and you can't evolve without change. I have the same complaint about the way "the fandom dictates" in video games as they do in comic books. I'm actually a bit more militant about it in comic books, actually. =P
Ah well. All that being said, I'm glad you guys take the time to come around and check things out here. I hope whatever you get from it ultimately helps.
I honestly think if any creator has fans, it because the fans took the good and bad of what was created in the first place, so instead of being moved this way or that by the fandom, creators should always stick to their vision.
People are just too hard to please either way. And they're generally afraid of change. I know a lot of people get their dander up when I say this, but it's true. When people have something they like, they generally don't want any changes to it, and you can't evolve without change. I have the same complaint about the way "the fandom dictates" in video games as they do in comic books. I'm actually a bit more militant about it in comic books, actually. =P
Ah well. All that being said, I'm glad you guys take the time to come around and check things out here. I hope whatever you get from it ultimately helps.
#25
Posté 27 avril 2011 - 05:27
Cutlass Jack
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David Gaider wrote...
Eollodwyn wrote...
I want so badly to sit in on one of those brainstorming meetings. It would be magical.
It's also sometimes painful. We can argue just as much as folks on the forums, and have an equally diverse range of opinions on what's a good idea as you'll find here. What's more, we have more of a personal stake in it. Of course, we're also professionals... but we're also professional nerds. So it's not quite the same thing.
Though it does get a little embarassing when they break out the Luchadore costumes to settle things....
