175 réponses à ce sujet

[Darth Wraith]

David Gaider wrote...

DanteCousland wrote...
But its the internet, you will get things like that. If you don't like it just leave or ignore it. I don't know maybe your not allowed to, just a thought.

Of course I can just not come here, as most developers do. The question, in the end, is whether you as the fan want us to.

I for one think it's great that the people who made the game(s) these forums are for actually take time to come in here and talk to us. I'm pretty sure there are other things you could be doing with your time instead. And I'm sorry coming here means putting up with people who make up inane, cringeworthy nicknames for you.

[Persephone]

David Gaider wrote...

DanteCousland wrote...
But its the internet, you will get things like that. If you don't like it just leave or ignore it. I don't know maybe your not allowed to, just a thought.

Of course I can just not come here, as most developers do. The question, in the end, is whether you as the fan want us to.

David,

I can only speak for myself, of course. But personally, I believe it's wonderful to be able to discuss this game with you and other devs who come here and talk to us. Being an avid reader, your posts interest me especially, given the position you hold at Bioware. Also, I think it's rather amazing how you guys are dealing with some of the things that have been going on here. I for one, would never want you to stop coming here. DAO and DAII are two of my favorite games (Though I'd call neither perfect) and to be able to discuss them with their Lead Writer is a cherished privilege. (Even if I may disagree with you on occasion. )

[tallon1982]

David Gaider wrote...

DanteCousland wrote...
But its the internet, you will get things like that. If you don't like it just leave or ignore it. I don't know maybe your not allowed to, just a thought.

Of course I can just not come here, as most developers do. The question, in the end, is whether you as the fan want us to.

I think the fact that you and others do visit the forums show that feedback from fans is important. At least that is how I view it. Those that do not visit the forums are missing out on  a lot but it is their choice but I would think our extremely vocal community gets heard regardless because I would assume during meetings our concerns are brought up. Yes, we can seem like a neverending line of two year olds on aisle 13 throwing a tantrum over a toy we can't have just yet or we just need a diaper change, take your pick, but we love the fact you actually care to take part in the madness. In a nutshell yes, as a fan I want developers to be part of the community!

[Viyu]

David Gaider wrote...

Eollodwyn wrote...
I want so badly to sit in on one of those brainstorming meetings. It would be magical.

It's also sometimes painful. We can argue just as much as folks on the forums, and have an equally diverse range of opinions on what's a good idea as you'll find here. What's more, we have more of a personal stake in it. Of course, we're also professionals... but we're also professional nerds. So it's not quite the same thing.

I'm getting good chills from hearing that too! But to be honest, I understand what you're saying as far as the "painful" part. It's not like arguing with an editor (if you're lucky enough to even argue), but a whole team of people. Considering this is a team effort, I'd assume you all must make comprmises for the sake of getting things done. As someone whose criticized hired writers for comic books, there truly is, and I commend you for saying it,  "nerd  professionals". It's nothing new, but it's lovely to hear it.

But to go into it further, there are people who are hired writers and people who behave professionally. The latter treating the piece of work as a personal fanfic or "NO U" to the people who take issue with their whims, namely with pet characters that become the Wesley's of a particular franchise.  I can tell that there is a strive to be professional. I think that people who act utterly childish in real life can create something, that while it may be inconsistent sometimes, aims to be professional in the way the story TELLS itself. People who write can actually sense it in the demeanor of how content is written which is the difference between fanfiction and fiction and fan writers becomming "professional writers" in title only. I can't really be more specific than that, sorry.

That said, I still take issue with some of the things that occured this past game. Namely because things did not add up in a consistent manner. While I applaud you for trying to clear up inconsistencies, that is not going to repair the confusion people have about the game who don't frequent the website. I think I said this in another topic, but I think you can just as easily hang yourself if you expect fans to do but so much bending over backwards to figure things out. A lot went unexplained that probably should have been, especially when you reintroduce old characters. Maybe it had to do with time restraints or something. I really can't be the one to judge. But the fans most certainly will judge the end result. This isn't SEGA franchise, where nobody could give two cents less for storyline and characters.

Modifié par Viyu, 27 avril 2011 - 08:52 .

[Ariella]

I say thank God for developers who care enough to shoot the breeze here on the forums. Personally, I've always been grateful for it, and it's part of what's made me a loyal customer of Bioware products.

[TJSolo]

BobSmith101 wrote...

I watched the OVA of "No way my little sister is that cute" last night and it just brought it to mind when they were arguing about making an RPG game.

If I can find a short clip somewhere I'll post it in.

Do you really want to call what they were planning an RPG?
I re-watched that episode with this thread and EA Bioware in mind, it was so much funnier.

[Reinveil]

David Gaider wrote...

Well, your last point should be kept in mind-- because there very much have been people who (for example) have wished me death and/or failure, whether they believe I am responsible for everything they dislike or I simply make a convenient target. Is that supposed to be haha funny? Is a developer supposed to want to expose themselves to that kind of vitriol, and enjoy it? According to those people we should want it, like it, and take notes... at which point the only rational response is to go "oookaaay" and simply go back to work.

Obviously I can't spend every waking hour here to sift through every thread, but I'm under the impression these kinds of posters are in the minority.  The vocal minority, but the minority nonetheless.  At least I hope that's the case.  I can see how that would be rather off-putting (it would admittedly be pretty weird if someone that didn't think I did a good job on something came and told me I should be fired or killed!), but I don't think it's inaccurate to say that a majority of your fans come here out of love.  Don't let the idiots ruin it for everyone else (as is so often the case).

[AtreiyaN7]

That was quite interesting. I suspect that he's right too - that even if there were a magic RPG hat that gave everyone what they wanted, someone would complain about its color. *snort*

[Jills Toy]

JohnEpler wrote...

Darth Wraith wrote...

catofnine wrote...

KilrB wrote...

My magic hat had better be black.

Mine better come with cookies.  In honor of Sten of course.

OP: thanks for the link. 

Re: forum reading ...I think most of the devs and writers who post here do have a thick skin for swimming in sewage.

I certainly hope they do. If I was on the dev team and read these forums every day I'd be popping Prozac like it was M&Ms. I don't for a moment believe that there was some sort of malicious intent behind the way DA2 turned out; I think BioWare merely tried some new ideas, some of which worked and some of which did not.

For me, at least, it's understanding and recognizing the difference between people who are vitirolic because they are emotionally involved to the point that they have a hard time controlling themselves, and people who are vitriolic because, well, they revel in the anonymity that the internet provides. The former, you have to ignore the emotional content and get to the why - why do they feel that way? What is it that's causing that reaction, and how can it be addressed (if it -can- be addressed)? As for the latter, well, you'll get that regardless of whether you're a developer for a game studio or a guy posting about hockey, and if you take it too personally, you're not going to last long on the internet.

I think Darth hit the nail on the head and John 's response tells me they are really looking for the constructive feedback which I've tried to provide on other posts within the forum. DA II was probably in answer to some fan feedback about DA:O they didn't like or liked and trying new things. There is a lot I like in DA II (absent bugs they are currently working on) and some things I wish didn't change from DA:O. In either case, I'm a huge Bioware fan and will continue buying every RPG and DLC they put out until such time it steers away from the epic feeling and destiny control one has throuhout the different playthroughs.

[JabbaDaHutt30]

Persephone wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

DanteCousland wrote...
But its the internet, you will get things like that. If you don't like it just leave or ignore it. I don't know maybe your not allowed to, just a thought.

Of course I can just not come here, as most developers do. The question, in the end, is whether you as the fan want us to.

David,

I can only speak for myself, of course. But personally, I believe it's wonderful to be able to discuss this game with you and other devs who come here and talk to us. Being an avid reader, your posts interest me especially, given the position you hold at Bioware. Also, I think it's rather amazing how you guys are dealing with some of the things that have been going on here. I for one, would never want you to stop coming here. DAO and DAII are two of my favorite games (Though I'd call neither perfect) and to be able to discuss them with their Lead Writer is a cherished privilege. (Even if I may disagree with you on occasion. )

Just how far do you think your brown-nosing will take you, Persephony? Acknowledgement, perhaps? Ending up on one of the developers friends list, even? Just curious.

[Jills Toy]

Reinveil wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

Of course there are people here who are interested, both official and unofficial (like John and myself). We do it because it would be worse, in our opinions, to develop in a vacuum. Not that developing in a committee would be any better, of course, and despite the fact that some fans seem to mistake the forums for one it still can be really useful to get the feedback here-- as blunt as it may occasionally be.

As someone that's been critical of DAII, I hope you understand that I'm grateful for this attitude.  As John pointed out, you're going to get trolls on any forum regardless of what's being discussed there, but I'm glad you guys bother to sift through the nonsense to consider legitimate issues people may have with the game.  The responses on either side of the argument have been passionate (to say the least), and I think this stems from a mutual desire to see you guys succeed.  I think people sometimes lose sight of this.  Bioware has been a favorite developer of mine for many years now, and one of only a handful that make games I genuinely get excited about playing prior to release.  You've also got a more consistent track record than most major devs for delivering award winning games, so unfortunately any missteps are going to be seen as a major disappointment (or CATASTROPHIC LETDOWN, depending on the poster ).  But I don't believe any reasonable member of the community here, no matter how critical, is hoping for failure.

So, in short: thanks for listening.  You certainly don't have to, but it speaks volumes that you do.

Well said Reinveil! I agree whole heartedly.

[John Epler]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

DanteCousland wrote...
But its the internet, you will get things like that. If you don't like it just leave or ignore it. I don't know maybe your not allowed to, just a thought.

Of course I can just not come here, as most developers do. The question, in the end, is whether you as the fan want us to.

David,

I can only speak for myself, of course. But personally, I believe it's wonderful to be able to discuss this game with you and other devs who come here and talk to us. Being an avid reader, your posts interest me especially, given the position you hold at Bioware. Also, I think it's rather amazing how you guys are dealing with some of the things that have been going on here. I for one, would never want you to stop coming here. DAO and DAII are two of my favorite games (Though I'd call neither perfect) and to be able to discuss them with their Lead Writer is a cherished privilege. (Even if I may disagree with you on occasion. )

Just how far do you think your brown-nosing will take you, Persephony? Acknowledgement, perhaps? Ending up on one of the developers friends list, even? Just curious.

Truly, my friends list is a hallowed place, where only the finest of brown nosers may post.

I mean, there's not a single person on there that has ever expressed a negative opinion about the game.

And thus I spend my snark credit for the month.

[erynnar]

David Gaider wrote...

Eollodwyn wrote...
I want so badly to sit in on one of those brainstorming meetings. It would be magical.

It's also sometimes painful. We can argue just as much as folks on the forums, and have an equally diverse range of opinions on what's a good idea as you'll find here. What's more, we have more of a personal stake in it. Of course, we're also professionals... but we're also professional nerds. So it's not quite the same thing.

Still, I second being able to sit in, as an unproffesional nerd, it would be so wonderful to sit in.

I apologize if sometimes my snark (meant to be funny was blunt or taken badly). I really do love BioWare (never been one of those "dead to me types.")  I don't want to be mean.  Hell, I can't play the bad side in DA2 or DAO, I am such a softie.  It kills me to hurt someone's feelings. Guess that's why I work at the job I do. Though I really want to write. ROFL!

So, I extend my heartfelt apologies if I have ever been a ****y twit (which I have, I'm sure).

[Persephone]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

DanteCousland wrote...
But its the internet, you will get things like that. If you don't like it just leave or ignore it. I don't know maybe your not allowed to, just a thought.

Of course I can just not come here, as most developers do. The question, in the end, is whether you as the fan want us to.

David,

I can only speak for myself, of course. But personally, I believe it's wonderful to be able to discuss this game with you and other devs who come here and talk to us. Being an avid reader, your posts interest me especially, given the position you hold at Bioware. Also, I think it's rather amazing how you guys are dealing with some of the things that have been going on here. I for one, would never want you to stop coming here. DAO and DAII are two of my favorite games (Though I'd call neither perfect) and to be able to discuss them with their Lead Writer is a cherished privilege. (Even if I may disagree with you on occasion. )

Just how far do you think your brown-nosing will take you, Persephony? Acknowledgement, perhaps? Ending up on one of the developers friends list, even? Just curious.

Look at you, trying soooooooooo hard.

It's almost endearing. Truly.

[erynnar]

JohnEpler wrote...

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

DanteCousland wrote...
But its the internet, you will get things like that. If you don't like it just leave or ignore it. I don't know maybe your not allowed to, just a thought.

Of course I can just not come here, as most developers do. The question, in the end, is whether you as the fan want us to.

David,

I can only speak for myself, of course. But personally, I believe it's wonderful to be able to discuss this game with you and other devs who come here and talk to us. Being an avid reader, your posts interest me especially, given the position you hold at Bioware. Also, I think it's rather amazing how you guys are dealing with some of the things that have been going on here. I for one, would never want you to stop coming here. DAO and DAII are two of my favorite games (Though I'd call neither perfect) and to be able to discuss them with their Lead Writer is a cherished privilege. (Even if I may disagree with you on occasion. )

Just how far do you think your brown-nosing will take you, Persephony? Acknowledgement, perhaps? Ending up on one of the developers friends list, even? Just curious.

Truly, my friends list is a hallowed place, where only the finest of brown nosers may post.

I mean, there's not a single person on there that has ever expressed a negative opinion about the game.

And thus I spend my snark credit for the month.

ROFL! I just love when you do anything, "cajun style," as I have family who are. That always tickles my funnybone.  Really thank you for all you do (ohhhh I am brown nosing, do I get on the list? Will the red velvet rope be raised?) .

Okay I have spent my snark quotient now.

And of course I am paranoid about being a troll. Am I a troll? Oh dear! I try not to be. ACK! I have been accused of it...once. Does that count? I really don't want to be one or a jerk, or smmeee heeeeead. See? Now I am worried about my behavior (really, I do, worry).

Modifié par erynnar, 27 avril 2011 - 09:21 .

[Cutlass Jack]

JohnEpler wrote...

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

Just how far do you think your brown-nosing will take you, Persephony? Acknowledgement, perhaps? Ending up on one of the developers friends list, even? Just curious.

Truly, my friends list is a hallowed place, where only the finest of brown nosers may post.

I mean, there's not a single person on there that has ever expressed a negative opinion about the game.

And thus I spend my snark credit for the month.

If once, just once the devs put on a pretty dress for me and dance the remigold, then and only then will my brown nosing have taken me far enough.

(well okay probably taken me too far...)

Modifié par Cutlass Jack, 27 avril 2011 - 09:22 .

[_Aine_]

erynnar wrote...


Okay I have spent my snark quotient now.

Is there someplace I can log in to check my snark credits? I know I used up a fair amount between today and yesterday but given that my CC# is on file, I want to keep it in check ... 

<_<

Cutlass Jack wrote...

If once, just once the devs put on a pretty dress for me and dance the remigold, then and only then will my brown nosing have taken me far enough.

(well okay probably taken me too far...)

*waits in line for a chance to see this*

Modifié par shantisands, 27 avril 2011 - 09:24 .

[Ariella]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

Just how far do you think your brown-nosing will take you, Persephony? Acknowledgement, perhaps? Ending up on one of the developers friends list, even? Just curious.

Truly, my friends list is a hallowed place, where only the finest of brown nosers may post.

I mean, there's not a single person on there that has ever expressed a negative opinion about the game.

And thus I spend my snark credit for the month.

If once, just once the devs put on a pretty dress for me and dance the remigold, then and only then will my brown nosing have taken me far enough.

(well okay probably taken me too far...)

It's only too far if they sing Big Boats as well.

[erynnar]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

JohnEpler wrote...

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

Just how far do you think your brown-nosing will take you, Persephony? Acknowledgement, perhaps? Ending up on one of the developers friends list, even? Just curious.

Truly, my friends list is a hallowed place, where only the finest of brown nosers may post.

I mean, there's not a single person on there that has ever expressed a negative opinion about the game.

And thus I spend my snark credit for the month.

If once, just once the devs put on a pretty dress for me and dance the remigold, then and only then will my brown nosing have taken me far enough.

(well okay probably taken me too far...)

I would love to see that...but only if Jack puts on the Isabela costume.  Okay Jack, that makes two times today you have had me spitting liquids on my keyboard. Water not coffee this time.  You slay me, and my computer equipment too...

[John Epler]

erynnar wrote...


ROFL! I just love when you do anything, "cajun style," as I have family who are. That always tickles my funnybone.  Really thank you for all you do (ohhhh I am brown nosing, do I get on the list? Will the red velvet rope be raised?) .

Okay I have spent my snark quotient now.

You'll have to credit James Carville's appearance on 30 Rock for that particular lock phrase. Otherwise, it'd just be boring ol' 'Locking.', except when I see an opportunity to quote something else.

And I think I've rejected maaaybe one friend request since I started posting regularly. And that was because that person had, moments previous, spammed all the boards with various messages.

Otherwise, I like to talk and discuss with folks, regardless of their feelings on DA2. I don't think someone feeling differently about a consumer product (even if it's one I worked on) should preclude me from having anything in common with them. I mean, I successfully work alongside Calgary Flames fans on a daily basis, so what's one game?

[Pacifien]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...
... I believe that the Mass Effect team looks on how to improve their series though. Drew 'Dark Lord' Karpyshyn > David 'Vidya Game' Gaider.

Oh, dear, you missed the whole thing about how Mac Walters is now in charge of the Mass Effect series and is completely destroying everything Drew ever did. You missed that train.

[Persephone]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

David Gaider wrote...

DanteCousland wrote...
But its the internet, you will get things like that. If you don't like it just leave or ignore it. I don't know maybe your not allowed to, just a thought.

Of course I can just not come here, as most developers do. The question, in the end, is whether you as the fan want us to.

David,

I can only speak for myself, of course. But personally, I believe it's wonderful to be able to discuss this game with you and other devs who come here and talk to us. Being an avid reader, your posts interest me especially, given the position you hold at Bioware. Also, I think it's rather amazing how you guys are dealing with some of the things that have been going on here. I for one, would never want you to stop coming here. DAO and DAII are two of my favorite games (Though I'd call neither perfect) and to be able to discuss them with their Lead Writer is a cherished privilege. (Even if I may disagree with you on occasion. )

Just how far do you think your brown-nosing will take you, Persephony? Acknowledgement, perhaps? Ending up on one of the developers friends list, even? Just curious.

Look at you, trying soooooooooo hard.

It's almost endearing. Truly.

*Grabs popcorn* Well, it looks like Persephone's gonna knock some headz!

No time. Must work harder so all the devs will finally admit that I am their best friend and that they cannot live without me!

[upsettingshorts]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

Just how far do you think your brown-nosing will take you, Persephony? Acknowledgement, perhaps? Ending up on one of the developers friends list, even? Just curious.

You don't have to brown nose anyone to do that, just send a request.  The fact the forums doesn't have a proper dev tracker - beyond the Bioware tag on such threads, which is a clumsy method of following developer interaction - is practically enough justification for such a request to be reasonable.