175 réponses à ce sujet

[AtreiyaN7]

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

AtreiyaN7 wrote...

JabbaDaHutt30 wrote...

Just how far do you think your brown-nosing will take you, Persephony? Acknowledgement, perhaps? Ending up on one of the developers friends list, even? Just curious.

Why sure, that's the plan all of us brown-nosers here have. We're all privy to BW's deepest, darkest secrets. In fact, I'll make sure to pass along the suggestion that in their next game, BW should have 30 waves of ninja-like enemies dropping from the ceiling, JUST for you.

/endsnark

... I didn't realize there were so many drones and sychophants left ever since Dragon Age 2 was lambasted.

Epler will be pleased.

...

...

...

Dear, sweet Epler, you are so kind to take notice of me like this. How fondly I shall remember this moment!

Oh, you keep trying, little guy - it's so adorable. Maybe one day you'll actually attain some degree of skill at the fine art of sarcasm and be worthy of dwelling on Mount Olympus with those of us who are champion snarkers. We who reside here feast upon ambrosia while seated at the table of the great and mighty BW gods. Meanwhile, you can go try to steal some scraps of rotten meat from Cerberus or whatever it is you do in the piddling lower realms.

Modifié par AtreiyaN7, 27 avril 2011 - 10:13 .

[Night Prowler76]

All of this Morrigan talk makes me want to go back and re-kindle our love hahaha, I do love me a sassy woman!

[neppakyo]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Morrigan did this much better. She actually had style.

And breasts.

Damn, thats where you women got it from! Morrigan! (the snarkiness, and quips. Not the breasts)

Actually my father snarked all the time, so I learned from the best.

And I got these breasts from investing 10 000 SEK into a plastic surgeon's bank account.

To the last comment, this is where, as a male, I would type Boobs, or GTFO? Correct? 

Ahh, so  grandmaster snark master *sage nod*

[TUHD]

LOL. This is going completely offtopic. I dunno, but last days this forum tends to get offtopic, FAST. LOL.

/snide comment/ 2 of you consider yourself good at sarcasm. Next time, go and practice what you preach - I suggest taking a lesson from Persephone, although I dunno how much she would charge for it.

Insulting is born within everyone, sarcasm is learned - a true master at it can insult someone while still making someone think they were being relative nice to them.

Modifié par TUHD, 27 avril 2011 - 10:26 .

[ChickenDownUnder]

I dunno about dev meetings being magical. I think that depends on how long it being since everyone had a chance to take a shower before being enclosed into one room.

Or how much time was spent in the dark, dank lair of QA.

I kid. I kid.

Good blog.

Modifié par ChickenDownUnder, 27 avril 2011 - 10:30 .

[erynnar]

neppakyo wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Look at you, trying soooooooooo hard.

It's almost endearing. Truly.

*also grabs popcorn*

Perspiration is always good in a fight!

She is scary.

*sits down next to Nep and steals popcorn while watching*

[John Epler]

Now that we've gone completely off-topic (aided and abetted by myself, to be fair), let's try and claw our way at least somewhat back on-topic.

[erynnar]

JohnEpler wrote...

erynnar wrote...


ROFL! I just love when you do anything, "cajun style," as I have family who are. That always tickles my funnybone.  Really thank you for all you do (ohhhh I am brown nosing, do I get on the list? Will the red velvet rope be raised?) .

Okay I have spent my snark quotient now.

You'll have to credit James Carville's appearance on 30 Rock for that particular lock phrase. Otherwise, it'd just be boring ol' 'Locking.', except when I see an opportunity to quote something else.

And I think I've rejected maaaybe one friend request since I started posting regularly. And that was because that person had, moments previous, spammed all the boards with various messages.

Otherwise, I like to talk and discuss with folks, regardless of their feelings on DA2. I don't think someone feeling differently about a consumer product (even if it's one I worked on) should preclude me from having anything in common with them. I mean, I successfully work alongside Calgary Flames fans on a daily basis, so what's one game?

Wow! You work next to Calagary Flames fans?  And no one gets a stick to the face? I am impressed!

Oops! Yes back on topic! *smacks self* Or John will have to lock himself Cajun Style.

I enjoyed his take on the process and insights immensly. And as such has helped me see some ignorance of my assumptions. I can be taught!  Mostly...I think?

Modifié par erynnar, 27 avril 2011 - 10:32 .

[TUHD]

JohnEpler wrote...

Now that we've gone completely off-topic (aided and abetted by myself, to be fair), let's try and claw our way at least somewhat back on-topic.

We were at... http://rampantgames.com/blog/?p=2644
But as for the rest... it's an interesting read... but something which already got said (in different parts) at those forums already a bit (bar personal experience from working at Bioware of course :happy:)

Modifié par TUHD, 27 avril 2011 - 10:33 .

[neppakyo]

JohnEpler wrote...

Now that we've gone completely off-topic (aided and abetted by myself, to be fair), let's try and claw our way at least somewhat back on-topic.

uhh, what was the topic again? I'm still trying to imagine the fine work allistarlover's plastic surgeon did..

Oh, yeah, blog, making games..

Uhh, yeah it would be kinda neat to sneak into a brainstorming session on a new game. BW should have a contest, win a trip to see how a game is made or soemthing

Modifié par neppakyo, 27 avril 2011 - 10:38 .

[Rockpopple]

I think the topic is that it's hard out there for a pimp.

[Ariella]

Going back on topic, the blog was interesting, but didn't surprise me at all. I heard similar things from Joe Straznyski when he used to post on the B5 AOL forums, and Joe could be vicious. I think it came from hang around with Harlin Ellison.

Hell, I've even seen non-professionals get run out of communities they were modding for (some of the mods were good too) because one person and some of his friends decided to heckle their page on NWN Vault. Vault got it under control, but it was unfortunately too late for the person I'm thinking of, which was a real pity.

I know from my own experiences doing fan fic and other creative writing that even a negative review phrased in a way that helps can be heart rending. These creations are like your kids, and the last thing any parent wants to do is send their children out into the "cold cruel world" and not be able to defend them. I know this too from personal experience as a parent.

I'm glad we've got a bunch of professional nerds who are willing to talk to us, and listen in an attempt to try and always do better. As long as that spirit remains at Bioware, I'll be a customer.

[Statulos]

David Gaider wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...
In short, we criticize harshly because we love you; not because we hate you or find delight  in your failures/shortcomings.

PS - Although I've been constantly referring to the fanbase as "we", I cannot truly speak for anyone besides myself. Your willingness to put up with, well, you know, on a daily basis is a trait I appreciate and respect about you and your company. 

Well, your last point should be kept in mind-- because there very much have been people who (for example) have wished me death and/or failure, whether they believe I am responsible for everything they dislike or I simply make a convenient target. Is that supposed to be haha funny? Is a developer supposed to want to expose themselves to that kind of vitriol, and enjoy it? According to those people we should want it, like it, and take notes... at which point the only rational response is to go "oookaaay" and simply go back to work.

You can't speak for them. You don't know if they mean it any more than I do-- I just have to take it on faith that they do it because they like games. A lot. There are days, however, when I'd very much just rather not deal with it, as I'm certainly under no obligation to.

For those who are passionate out of caring, like you mention, it can be very worthwhile interaction. Hopefully for us both.

If there is something I appreciate from you and Mr. Epler is the fact that you stand up and talk here. One of my fave developers, Paradox, does this too and I really, really appreciate the attitude.

Yes, I do not agree with many of the decissions taken in DA2 in script terms but that´s not because you turned into an evil monster who eats babies for breakfast overnight and suddenly made it al wrong.
Voicing my disconfort in those terms is a first class ticket to not be listened to nor taken seriously.

I actually miss that "Gaideresque" component full of cynicism (HK47, Shale) or tragic romance (Morrigan, Viconia) in this new Dragon Age game. Wishing you hell will not allow you or Bioware in general that those are elements I miss a lot get back in the future.

To each his own: I think you guys could have done quite much better on DA2. The fact that you´re here and listen to us speaks loud about personal dignity and professionalism irregarless of the game you worked in.

Modifié par Statulos, 27 avril 2011 - 11:10 .

[Teh Blasta]

The thing that caught my eye was:

You can’t please all the fans all the time

This is something that makes me question why exactly you would want to try and please "all" the fans. The point of media is mass appeal and not catering to a specific group. There is no single existing thing in any BioWare game that everyone agrees is for the better. By my logic it is impossible to please the majority let alone everyone. Someone is going to have a problem with at least something in ME3 or DA3 and they are going to follow up by whining their life away on these forums. If I were to suggest something to BioWare I would suggest developing games however they want to do it and not how mob rule wants it.

[Statulos]

Teh Blasta wrote...

The thing that caught my eye was:

You can’t please all the fans all the time

This is something that makes me question why exactly you would want to try and please "all" the fans. The point of media is mass appeal and not catering to a specific group. There is no single existing thing in any BioWare game that everyone agrees is for the better. By my logic it is impossible to please the majority let alone everyone. Someone is going to have a problem with at least something in ME3 or DA3 and they are going to follow up by whining their life away on these forums. If I were to suggest something to BioWare I would suggest developing games however they want to do it and not how mob rule wants it.

Developing, as the original link suggests is expensive, terribly expensive. How to cover those expenses is where I think I diffeer in approach. DA:O was able to get a quite nice fan base yearning for more like junkies. Sure it was not a massive audience CoD style, but I think it was quite healthy. I´d have concentrated on that section of the gamer population instead of trying to water down the experience. Basicaly if what I manufacture is excelent whisky, I´d rather concentrate on those drinkers than on vodka ones.

[Ariella]

Teh Blasta wrote...

The thing that caught my eye was:

You can’t please all the fans all the time

This is something that makes me question why exactly you would want to try and please "all" the fans. The point of media is mass appeal and not catering to a specific group. There is no single existing thing in any BioWare game that everyone agrees is for the better. By my logic it is impossible to please the majority let alone everyone. Someone is going to have a problem with at least something in ME3 or DA3 and they are going to follow up by whining their life away on these forums. If I were to suggest something to BioWare I would suggest developing games however they want to do it and not how mob rule wants it.

Thing is there are some legitmate gripes about DA2, and a lot of technical stuff wouldn't have been taken care of if Bioware ignored the fan base. It's just a fact of life in the social media age unfortunately. However, I, personally found, Bioware is pretty good at balancing the story they want to tell with what their fans want. Not always totally successful, but they do a darn sight better than most, which is one of the reasons they're still around to do so when more than a few companies who've taken similiar approaches have fallen by the wayside (poor Troika).

[Caja]

Darth Wraith wrote...

A former employee of BioWare, now indie developer, has a guest blog on Tales of the Rampant Coyote where he talks about lessons learned at BioWare. While this no doubt will elicit the usual entitlement rage, he makes some extremely valid points. Link below:

rampantgames.com/blog/

That was a very interesting read. I have always asked myself how a game actually starts. And I admit that I had a very similar picture in my mind, a picture of a bunch of people with empty pizza boxes who are sitting at a huge table and discuss their ideas.

I especially liked the part about the magic hat. LOL.

To be honest, I could imagine that reading in this forum from BioWare's point of view can be both, a blessing and a curse. Last year I participated in an advanced training in storytelling. We had to develop a movie treatment. One person droped out of class after two meetings. The rest stayed but I thought that it was extremely hard. Not so much the writing part, which was hard enough, but the part where you have to learn how to deal with criticsm. A lot of criticsm. In all my years at college I had never experienced something like that. Everytime I had worked over my characters and my story, I thought Now I've got it right! This time there won't be anything to criticize.
That was a good one . There was always something wrong. And it wasn't because I couldn't get the job done but because the other participants and my teacher were very passionate people with so many ideas and suggestions that it was overwhelming at times. In a daunting way.

So, to make a long story short: I don't envy the developers and writers who come here and read and comment on our thoughts. But it is much appreciated .

[Teh Blasta]

Statulos wrote...
snip

Failing to streamline, update, progress, rework and flat out change with the times will always lead to stagnation. Stagnation leads to boring sequels and boring sequels leads to loss in profits and product quality as a whole. People on these forums can whine all they like about the sequels but we as consumers should want progression, especially against time sink. Not trying to flame the originals but it is clear to me BioWare is focusing on moving away from time sink, the single biggest problem in RPGs if you ask me.

Edit:

Ariella wrote...

Thing is there are some legitmate gripes about DA2, and a lot of technical stuff wouldn't have been taken care of if Bioware ignored the fan base. 

There is a diffrence between pointing out game bugs and ****ing on a daily basis for sixteen odd pages about how "BioWare has betrayed the fans for moronic reason X". Trying to excuse unfounded accusations with technical problems does not legitimize developers having to sit and listen to half the stupid threads on these forums.

Modifié par Teh Blasta, 27 avril 2011 - 11:36 .

[Tommy6860]

Teh Blasta wrote...

Statulos wrote...
snip

Failing to streamline, update, progress, rework and flat out change with the times will always lead to stagnation. Stagnation leads to boring sequels and boring sequels leads to loss in profits and product quality as a whole. People on these forums can whine all they like about the sequels but we as consumers should want progression, especially against time sink. Not trying to flame the originals but it is clear to me BioWare is focusing on moving away from time sink, the single biggest problem in RPGs if you ask me.

Yet, since I am a "consumer", I don't think you should pretend to speak for me, despite your personal definition of "progression". However, I do think that when I buy a product advertised as such that a sequel will be in the same light as its predecoessor, that not meeting any of the marketing to similarities of the first game is hardly progresssion as much as it was "misleading".

Modifié par Tommy6860, 27 avril 2011 - 11:38 .

[TJSolo]

Failing to streamline, update, progress, rework and flat out change with the times will always lead to stagnation.

I would love to play a game that fails to streamline, that might mean content and gameplay mechanics were added rather than taken away. Unless stagnation actually happens it is just an empty threat.(fear?)

Stagnation leads to boring sequels and boring sequels leads to loss in profits and product quality as a whole.

That totally explains the success and quality of DA2,...wait.

Modifié par TJSolo, 27 avril 2011 - 11:39 .

[VanTesla]

I like the article and understand that you can't please everyone. It must be hard to go on forums and see less than productive criticism about a game (just b**ching or hate speeches). I must admit at doing this sometimes when im angry... To that I apologize.

[David Gaider]

Statulos wrote...
If there is something I appreciate from you and Mr. Epler is the fact that you stand up and talk here. One of my fave developers, Paradox, does this too and I really, really appreciate the attitude.

Ah, Paradox.

I mod for Victoria 2 (my own little do-something-not-RPG-related hobby) so I know whereof you speak.

Yes, I do not agree with many of the decissions taken in DA2 in script terms but that´s not because you turned into an evil monster who eats babies for breakfast overnight and suddenly made it al wrong.

But... I like babies.

Fried.

I actually miss that "Gaideresque" component full of cynicism (HK47, Shale) or tragic romance (Morrigan, Viconia) in this new Dragon Age game.

Speaking personally, I try not to do the exact same thing every time out of the gate. I might return to characters like HK47 or Shale in the future, it's hard to say. As long as Mary and Luke and Sheryl are about, however, I'm certain there will be no shortage of characters with snark.

To each his own: I think you guys could have done quite much better on DA2. The fact that you´re here and listen to us speaks loud about personal dignity and professionalism irregarless of the game you worked in.

Here's to endeavouring to doing better, then.

[upsettingshorts]

David Gaider wrote...
Ah, Paradox.

I mod for Victoria 2 (my own little do-something-not-RPG-related hobby) so I know whereof you speak.

It's hard to describe my reaction to reading this, but I imagine it's similar to your typical fangirl squee.

I'm not a girl.  I don't squee.  But there you have it.

Now I want to know which mod, because... Victoria 2 kind of begs for a few of them.

[Teh Blasta]

Tommy6860 wrote...
Yet, since I am a "consumer", I don't think you should pretend to speak for me

I don't? Well I could, I do think highly of my own public speaking skills. So if you are in the market for someone to speak on behalf of yourself I would be willing to. Think about it and get back to me.

Aside from that, for those of you who are ever so enraged at BioWare for specifically Dragon Age II you should understand that not everyone agrees with you that Origins was better. Dispite fanboys being more vocal than other members of these forums it is clear that not everyone has a problem. But, don't let me stop you, carry on...

[aftohsix]

DTKT wrote...

Interesting.

Quite a shame about devs and forums. I wish there was other ways to provide feedback.

I found his comments on forums both intersesting and educational.  I agree.  It seems like those of us who do have what I consider to be "constructive" feedback are drowned out in the mass of "I HATE DIS GAME" posts.

Going to be called a troll in 5... 4... 3... 2...