324 réponses à ce sujet

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Mesina2 wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...


I'm not saying Meer is a bad actor. I'm saying that I don't like the particular character he's portraying.

Can I know whst you don't like about MaleShep but with FemShep you do?

Sure.

When manshep says "I'm sorry Ash, I had to make a choice." he sounds grimly determined. When Femshep says it, she sounds genuinely regretful. When manshep says "Why didn't you fix it sooner, or with something else?" he sounds like he doesn't particularly care why Legion is wearing his armor. When Femshep says it, she sounds like Legion's evasions are actually bothering her, like she really needs to figure this out.

Now, when Shepard is being a jerk, it works. Whe I finally saw this video I was like ooooh, so that's why people like him. "Cram your honor, what's this riot about?" "Because it's a big stupid jellyfish." "I won't be second guessed on my own ship by my own ship." "When I take Tali aborad council stations the customs officers sometimes call her 'that thing'" HA! But these lines aren't in the trailers. Sheploo the unreasonable troll is hilarious, but when he encounters something I feel like he should be caring about, I don't hear it in his voice. When femshep says something that indicates she cares, I hear it. I don't hear it from him.

I feel like Meer was directed to do "generic toughguy space marine," and they picked the face that most conveys the idea of "generic toughguy space marine." Maybe they gave Hale more latitude?

To compare, listen to Nigel Fishnchips talk about his situation. If that was how Shepard delivered his lines... Oh gods yes please. I would play so many mansheps. It's not just the accent, it's barely surpressed, gruff emotion. Now imagine ManShep delivering those lines in his untroubled, laid-back tough guy voice. Do you see the difference? 

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 30 avril 2011 - 09:39 .

[lolwut666]

FemShep's voice acting has a lot of shortcomings, too.

On Freedom's Progress, when she talks to Veetor, she does it in /allcaps and pauses awkwardly mid-sentence ("WHY DIDN'T THE COLONISTS FIGHT BACK, VEETOR? WHAT... HAPPENED...?). And when she tells Kal'Reegar to stand down on Tali's recruitment, it sounds like she is trying too hard. ManShep sounds more natural in both these scenes.

There are times when she whispers, too, like to the looters on Mordin's recruitment, which is unnerving and sounds forced, IMO.

YMMV, but I cringe a lot more when I play as a FemShep than as a ManShep.

Modifié par lolwut666, 30 avril 2011 - 09:43 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

That's why I said it was a matter of taste. I don't know that I've ever cringed when playing Femshep, and I roll my eyes at pretty much every Paragon line if I'm playing manshep. Rolling your eyes is different from cringing, though. I'm rolling my eyes not because he sounds unnatural, but because he sounds like a guy I don't like and don't want to be around. There's a difference.

A lot of it is also the face. I don't know why, but Sheploo looks like a jerk.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 30 avril 2011 - 09:51 .

[CroGamer002]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Sure.

When manshep says "I'm sorry Ash, I had to make a choice." he sounds grimly determined. When Femshep says it, she sounds genuinely regretful. When manshep says "Why didn't you fix it sooner, or with something else?" he sounds like he doesn't particularly care why Legion is wearing his armor. When Femshep says it, she sounds like Legion's evasions are actually bothering her, like she really needs to figure this out.

Strange, I did feel emotion from his voice there.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Mesina2 wrote...
Strange, I did feel emotion from his voice there.

I posted this last page: Mark Meer doing an improvised monologue. He sounds like he really wants to sell me that pirate bible, and there's a warmth to his voice. Do you hear the difference between this tone of voice, and Shepard's?

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 30 avril 2011 - 10:16 .

[Chewin]

I like how Meer's lines usually get straight to the point. MaleShep's Renegade sarcasm and Paragon directness draw me in more to the character. Most of the Renegade options end up with him giving them in this great subtly angry voice, which just fits the Renegade path so well. I dont find Meer's voice very good with the emotional stuff, but hilarious with most everything else, he kind of dropped the ball a few times in ME1, I admit, but he really picked it up again in ME2, some of his lines are just given so hilariously.

What I like with Hale's voice is the passion she brings to the table. I like her a lot when it comes to the emotional stuff in game and the dialog with Thane is one of my favourites. But sometimes I find Hale's "regular" tone always sounds somewhere between annoyed, exasperated or bored. It's like I'm always playing a Renegade. And then for some reason every time I talk to Jacob she's downright flirtatious, which I don't really like.
However, She always says in interviews that she wants to bring the best experience possible to the gamer and if she couldn't do that then shes not doing her job right, and I respect her for that.

Modifié par Chewin3, 30 avril 2011 - 10:24 .

[CroGamer002]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...
Strange, I did feel emotion from his voice there.

I posted this last page: Mark Meer doing an improvised monologue. He sounds like he really wants to sell me that pirate bible, and there's a warmth to his voice. Do you hear the difference between this tone of voice, and Shepard's?

Yes, there is big diffrence between Shepard VA and that acting in video but even with Shepard I can hear emotion.

[lolwut666]

I like Meer's Renegade better than Hale's, too.

I think it has something to do with Meer being a comedian, so he can do sarcasm better than Hale, who is more used to dramatic roles.

[Centauri2002]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...
Strange, I did feel emotion from his voice there.

I posted this last page: Mark Meer doing an improvised monologue. He sounds like he really wants to sell me that pirate bible, and there's a warmth to his voice. Do you hear the difference between this tone of voice, and Shepard's?

His earlier stuff, such as Jade Empire, is vastly different from his role as Shepard. So the fault definitely isn't with Meer, it's possibly with the voice direction. Although, I'm not sure why they'd tell Hale to voice Shepard so differently from Meer. Odd.

I can't say I can hear much emotion in Meer's performance. I suppose some people might appreciate that when playing as renegade, but I don't think you need to be an emotional brick to pull off tough and ruthless. But, hey, that's just me. I find Hale does sarcasm very well too, so not a problem there.

I don't think we should give Meer a hard time though, he has the acting chops.

[xSTONEYx187x]

 Two great VA's.

Check this out. 



ManShep is a better Renegade, IMO.

Modifié par xSTONEYx187x, 30 avril 2011 - 11:08 .

[Inspectre]

Shimmer_Gloom wrote...

But would that minority have been so small had Fem!shep been slightly more visible?

Doubtlessly not.  She has aquired 20% of the fan base with practically 0% of the marketing.

[Black_Arrow141]

Maleshep all the way.

[jamskinner]

They may make gameplay videos that show femshep such as showing a soldier or Vanguard. I don't believe they will ever make a story version though because it makes it inconsistent. Not only don't they show femshep, they only show one version of male  shepard in their story trailers.

Modifié par jamskinner, 30 avril 2011 - 01:46 .

[Tup3x]

There's nothing wrong with Meer's voice. You can like both. Hale has to be careful with over act, it's really, really close. From Finnish point of view I really like Meer's voice since it sounds very natural to me and overacting is not an issue. People call us Finns monotonous because every word has falling intonation, but I find it very practical and it makes listening and speaking easy. But don't get me wrong, I really like Hale's acting. I think that both are equally good.

But to stay on topic, I don't think that femShep marketing is a good idea any more. It might confuse people. I wouldn't care anyway since she wouldn't be the Shepard I would use anyway. Due to CC restrictions I stick with Sheploo and my femShep.

[Captain Crash]

Nyoka wrote...

This is off-topic, folks.

Yep, It was offtopic pages ago,  hense why I havent posted.  The inevitable who the better VA always appears even though its a matter of opinion.   


The marketing campaign was always set for the ME trilogy. They created their agenda and how they will promote ME going forward and stuck to it. We have seen how their marketing campaign works and it is very specific.


Dont get me wrong I dont particular like this as I have stated numerous times.  It doesnt mean however I dont understand it.   They have marketed with a recognisable protagonist.  That of Sheploo.     Yet I still dont see why femshep has been cast aside without mention or acknowledgement.  Even edge or fringe customers wont be that confused!    Femshep could be a great benefit to Bioware as she really is one the best female heros in gaming.  Sadly many dont know this untill they buy the game.

[QwibQwib]

Mark Meer is a great actor, that's why Bioware picked him, but honestly the majority of ME fans fell in love with femshep ( jennifer hale). I do agree, Meer sounds better when sheploo is renegade, but femshep sounds more natural, gives more emotion in her VA. I rather leave Bioware with their sheploo marketing. And leave us fans of femshep with Giving her more originality in-game, improve her animations and hair clipping, etc.

On another note: click on my siggy link, if you like Femshep, and you feel she needs more improvements, show your support and if you have more ideas, feel free to add them.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Yeah, sorry about off-topicing. I was just trying to establish that being attracted to Mass Effect by the option of a female Shepard isn't the same as refusing to play any game that has a main male character. People kept classifying that decision as sexist, or irrational, or evidence that we didn't care about the quality of the game, we only cared about being female.

My point was this: sometimes main characters are designed to appeal to everyone (I keep coming back to Guybrush Threepwood but come on, who doesn't like that guy?), and to have a unique, unversally appealing personality. Instead of trying to create a single character that would appeal to everyone, Mass Effect created two characters who collectively offer a wider range of experience. I don't think Male Shep was designed to be a character women and men would relate to equally. He was designed more for men and slanted slightly in the direction of the universal FPS space marine personality type, while Femshep was deliberately designed to be a character girls would more naturally relate to, and didn't have to appeal to mainstream FPS fans. I think that may be why she was given more latitude, and also why she is so necessary.

And in a game where you're supposed to be getting into a character's headspace, knowing that a character with whom you share headspace is available is pretty gorram important.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 30 avril 2011 - 04:48 .

[Razorsedge820]

This thread and others like it do not impress the Vanderloo one bit.
You really want to take money out of this guys pocket?  

I'm sorry I just had to do it, this thread needs to lighten up a bit.

Like I said in similar threads I really don't care who is being represented in advertisements for Mass Effect, i'm getting the game regardless, hell I came across Mass Effect by accident myself. If putting a female Shepard in more ads brings more fans to the series I am all for it, I want to see my favorite devs get fatter pay checks for making the best game of all time. AS LONG as the Vanderloo does not get shunned it's all good.

Modifié par Razorsedge820, 30 avril 2011 - 04:52 .

[Aggie Punbot]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

TS2Aggie wrote...

20% of what fans? Current fans? Appealing to current loyal fans is pointless because they've already got their guaranteed business. And where exactly are you getting that 20% figure, by the way?

Article, cited several times in thread. Bam. 80% of players make custom face, 80% play as male shepard. Means 20% play as female shep. Also means Sheploo face is only used by 20% of fans - same percentage that make female shepards.

Okay, so not only do you not understand marketing, you also don't understand statistics. That 80% figure? Includes more than just people who exclusively play only male Sheps. Let me run it down for you.

That 80% of people who play male Shep that the article mentions? Could include:

- people that tried male Shep once and then played as fem Shep every other time.
- people that tried fem Shep once and then played as male Shep every other time.
- people that play both male Shep and female Shep.
- People that started playing the game and then didn't bother after a certain point because they got bored.
- Casual gamers that tried the game once, thought it wasn't for them and then quit. Of both genders.

It would not include:

- people that deliberately prevent the game from transmitting their information to EA Games.
- people without an inetrnet connection.

The whole '20% of your fanbase uses fem Shep' can actually be quite misleading due to the factors mentioned earlier. The actual total could be skewed more towards fem Shep or vice versa depending on how the statistics are sent and interpreted. Don't count on those numbers to be indicative of the actual number of fem Shep players or male Shep players.

[Fiery Phoenix]

I've met a few women on this very forum who admitted that they never knew Mass Effect had a female protagonist, but when they did (mostly through their friends), they immediately went out and bought it.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

TS2Aggie wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

TS2Aggie wrote...

20% of what fans? Current fans? Appealing to current loyal fans is pointless because they've already got their guaranteed business. And where exactly are you getting that 20% figure, by the way?

Article, cited several times in thread. Bam. 80% of players make custom face, 80% play as male shepard. Means 20% play as female shep. Also means Sheploo face is only used by 20% of fans - same percentage that make female shepards.

Okay, so not only do you not understand marketing, you also don't understand statistics. That 80% figure? Includes more than just people who exclusively play only male Sheps. Let me run it down for you.

That 80% of people who play male Shep that the article mentions? Could include:

- people that tried male Shep once and then played as fem Shep every other time.
- people that tried fem Shep once and then played as male Shep every other time.
- people that play both male Shep and female Shep.
- People that started playing the game and then didn't bother after a certain point because they got bored.
- Casual gamers that tried the game once, thought it wasn't for them and then quit. Of both genders.

It would not include:

- people that deliberately prevent the game from transmitting their information to EA Games.
- people without an inetrnet connection.

The whole '20% of your fanbase uses fem Shep' can actually be quite misleading due to the factors mentioned earlier. The actual total could be skewed more towards fem Shep or vice versa depending on how the statistics are sent and interpreted. Don't count on those numbers to be indicative of the actual number of fem Shep players or male Shep players.

I was simply summarizing the statistics because you ignored the earlier posts where they were discussed in greater detail. The possible interprestations have been discussed hundreds of times on these forums, so I didn't think the myriad of possible variables had to be gone into again. I'm sorry if you've missed all the previous conversations, next time I'll not bring up a statistic unless I have time to carefully explain the history of its discussion on this forum.

We have no way of knowing what that figure includes, because Bioware didn't release their methodology. I was using the 20% statistic in the argument because, based on the released figures, we know that at least that many people play as female shepard. It's a generally accepted rhetorical practice to interperet statistics in the way that would benefit you the least, when dealing with statistics whose methodology is unceratain. Still, it's the only information we have access to, and it provides some valuable insight into the percentages, even if it is not 100% accurate. I think my 20% estimate is probably a significant lowball, but according to the rhetorical conventions I was taught it's best to play it safe when quoting statistics in that manner.

Also, if I don't understand marketing, why don't you rebut any of my actual suggestions? I've actually worked in the industry, collaborating with community and marketing on advertising pushes for games. I've never designed or supervised a campaign myself, but I have seen small, targeted web campaigns make a difference of tens of thousands of sales for games. The involvement of a comics artist or minor web celebrity who is a fan helps even more.

You say I don't understand marketing, but provide absolutely no counterarguments other than "enough male gamers are moronic, vengeful idiots that creating a single web banner featuring femshep would destroy Mass Effect for all time."

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 01 mai 2011 - 05:04 .

[MaynPayn]

Just because there's an off ratio doesn't necessary mean there are lots of people that really want to play ME, but they just don't know it yet.
Sci-Fi is also thought to be a "boy thing".
and lastly, just because you like something doesn't mean that people have to like the same thing as you.

But it still wouldn't hurt to put up an ad that features the in-game features, that includes custom-Shep both male and female, this should also be featured on the back of the cover. Since the game is planned to be released right before Christmas and that means people are going to look at the back of the cover to figure out what they are going to buy, they might go in to buy something for someone else, but they might figure out something they want for themselves.

Modifié par MaynPayn, 01 mai 2011 - 02:14 .