324 réponses à ce sujet

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Ok guys, here is my terrible secret. You want to see the piece of Mass Effect "advertising" that got me to play the game? Here it is.



It's not marketing. It's not even viral. It's a girl drawing pictures of her boyfriend's FemShep. It's also an amusing anecdotal example of how every girl I know IRL who played Mass Effect learned that it was an RPG, featuring Femshep... they watched someone else play, and saw all the features that marketing completely failed to point out.

I didn't originally see this on Tumblr, I saw it linked on the artis' webcomic, Johnny Wander. It's not even a gaming or manga webcomic, it's just a random nerd webcomic on the internet. And I thought "hey, it's that Mass Effect game. Why did I never play that, again?"

Word of mouth is all very well and good, but if you're relying on word-of-mouth to make people aware of a key feature in your game, I feel like marketing must be doing something wrong.

Now, what could it hurt to hire a well-known webcomic artist like aido to draw some cute femshep comics, and link them from a few places (much like they did with Penny-Arcade and the Dragon Age comics)? What would it hurt to put banners featuring femshep on a few female-friendly webcomics, like Gunnerkrig Court or Girl Genius? What about putting a full page ad featuring both maleshep and femshep in an issue of some shojo comic, or some other magazine primarily marketed to nerd girls? 

Advertising on small scale, female-oriented webcomics would not be a terribly expensive proposition. It's something I've seen ATLUS and X-Seed do multiple times. It would also not have much of a chance of "polluting" your main message among the hyper-manly "theoretical idiot" gamers who would be confused by the sight of a female shepard. This marketing message would be laser focused on girls who would be interested in this kind of thing... which includes the audiences of most girl-focused webcomics. It would also have the advantage of hitting guys who read girl-focused webcomics... potential male customers who are statistically more likely to consider a female protagonist a selling point rather than a scary thing.

The cost of webcomic advertising on a minor webcomic is almost laughably small, in the scheme of things. While a Penny-Arcade run might cost thousands of dollars, a Girl Genius run is probably a lot cheaper, seeing as random etsy craftspeople can afford it.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 27 avril 2011 - 07:44 .

[ReinaHW]

Just because a game is an RPG doesn't mean it will have gender choice. Two Worlds 1 and 2, Arcania series, Divinity 1 and Divine Divinity, Risen. None of those have gender choice, they're male only.
Planescape Torment is a Bioware game I believe, it didn't have gender choice, male only. Many JRPG's are strongly male only leads.

So unless it's confirmed that a game has gender choice - either due to the game information that appears before the game's release, in the manual, on the cover, trailers and so on, then many female gamers who prefer to play a female lead instead of the ever generic male lead which is so common will continue to not have any information that says otherwise.

Instead of the same question being asked all the time, it would save that question being asked if the choice of gender for character you play as is actually mentioned in the game's information and on the cover, as well as the manual.
It's not like a simple sentence that says 'Choose the gender of the character - will cause any problems.

[TomY90]

Shimmer_Gloom wrote...

I don't think the "recent Final Fantasy" games have been bad. Its just that FF13 was, well, as experimental in many ways that DA2 was and the fanbase got a bit miffed. Plus any FF game that is also an MMO is gunna suck. This is just a fact of life.

I was a hardcore FF fan before playing the Bioware games. I'm still a FF fan (is a dude by the way).

I think JRPGs are great. And I think a big part of the reason girls are attracted to them (and Manga and other things from Japan) is because their treatment of female characters have a perception of being better than the Western Gaming Market right now. And the Western Comics market too.

Both comics and games have a stigma of being very unfriendly to females (whether this is deserved or not YMMV). I don't see how doing something subtle like highlighting the interesting qualities of the female characters (other than their cleavage) could hurt.

I do agree with you on the stigma being negative to females which will take a long time to ever resolve but I hate to say this but their is no signs of bioware doing anything to resolve this and plus they know that sex sells and every industry that involves women tend to do this which have a negative effect on female opinion of industries such as the gaming industry

[Kusy]

Shimmer_Gloom wrote...
I think JRPGs are great. And I think a big part of the reason girls are attracted to them (and Manga and other things from Japan) is because their treatment of female characters have a perception of being better than the Western Gaming Market right now. And the Western Comics market too.

Oh wow... is it me or have you just stated that japaneese culture is warmer towards woman than western one? That manga treats women less instrumentally than western comics? The sole purpose of kawaii girls in games and manga is to please man eyes unless were talking about manga genres specificaly adressed to women - and those are minority.

Hube boobs, long legs, eyes like lakes - yeah. Feminsm all the way.

[Rurik_Niall]

ReinaHW wrote...

Just because a game is an RPG doesn't mean it will have gender choice. Two Worlds 1 and 2, Arcania series, Divinity 1 and Divine Divinity, Risen. None of those have gender choice, they're male only.
Planescape Torment is a Bioware game I believe, it didn't have gender choice, male only. Many JRPG's are strongly male only leads.

So unless it's confirmed that a game has gender choice - either due to the game information that appears before the game's release, in the manual, on the cover, trailers and so on, then many female gamers who prefer to play a female lead instead of the ever generic male lead which is so common will continue to not have any information that says otherwise.

Instead of the same question being asked all the time, it would save that question being asked if the choice of gender for character you play as is actually mentioned in the game's information and on the cover, as well as the manual.
It's not like a simple sentence that says 'Choose the gender of the character - will cause any problems.

One correction, Planescape: Torment was created using the Infinity Engine, which was created by Bioware for the Baldur's Gate trilogy, but is not itself a Bioware game. Planescape was made by the, sadly, now defunct Black Isle Studios.

[ReinaHW]

Black Isle Studios is now Obsidian, and somewhat of a pale shadow of what they were. Still good at decent stories, but they make very messy games.

[Kusy]

Rurik_Niall wrote...
now defunct Black Isle Studios.

Also known as Obsidian now.

[Rurik_Niall]

Technically Obsidian was founded by former Black Isle team members, but the original Black Isle was dissolved by their parent company, firing all remaining members who hadn't already moved on to Obsidian.

[Shimmer_Gloom]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

Shimmer_Gloom wrote...
I think JRPGs are great. And I think a big part of the reason girls are attracted to them (and Manga and other things from Japan) is because their treatment of female characters have a perception of being better than the Western Gaming Market right now. And the Western Comics market too.

Oh wow... is it me or have you just stated that japaneese culture is warmer towards woman than western one? That manga treats women less instrumentally than western comics? The sole purpose of kawaii girls in games and manga is to please man eyes unless were talking about manga genres specificaly adressed to women - and those are minority.

Hube boobs, long legs, eyes like lakes - yeah. Feminsm all the way.

No, no, no,  Not at all.  Just that girls seem to dig Manga, Anime, and JRPGs more than American Comics or Video Games.  For some reason there doesn't seem to be the same stigma. 

That is all.  I am not saying that Manga/Anime etc has any better of a track record with positive female characters just that they, for some reason, are better accepted by the ladies.  They are more comfertable with it.  I worked in a book store.  And despite the American comics being literally right across from the manga I couldn't get a single girl to even OPEN an American Comic. 

The stigma is there.  That is all I'm saying. 

[Rurik_Niall]

Speaking as a proud brony, marketing to any gender is ultimately pointless. People are going to like what they like and marketing isn't going to change this fact. My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic certainly isn't marketed to any demographic beyond little girls. Find any given episode of it on YouTube however and see how many comments are from adult males. Instead of marketing your product towards any demographic just market it as what it is.

[ReinaHW]

Most American comics tend to protray women as little more than either villians, shrinking violets, play toys for men, almost naked, emo teen types or the happy to serve slave.
Or all parts of those. While the males are usually very handsome, rugged and the same character as one another for the most part in terms of the 'I'll be your hero!' cliche or the big, bad, sometimes brooding, sometimes just standing there with a great chin strong and silent type with a touch of roguish charm.

JRPG's are fond of doing the 'I'll be your hero!' cliche, Snow in FF13 was a prime example of that, horrible character.
Cliches and stereotypes are so boring.

[Shimmer_Gloom]

Rurik_Niall wrote...

Speaking as a proud brony, marketing to any gender is ultimately pointless. People are going to like what they like and marketing isn't going to change this fact. My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic certainly isn't marketed to any demographic beyond little girls. Find any given episode of it on YouTube however and see how many comments are from adult males. Instead of marketing your product towards any demographic just market it as what it is.

And this is at the crux of my point.  Mass Effect is not a generic space shooter starring a generic space marine.  And this is what the marketing pretty much conveys. 

There has to be a better way.

[Shimmer_Gloom]

ReinaHW wrote...

Most American comics tend to protray women as little more than either villians, shrinking violets, play toys for men, almost naked, emo teen types or the happy to serve slave.
Or all parts of those. While the males are usually very handsome, rugged and the same character as one another for the most part in terms of the 'I'll be your hero!' cliche or the big, bad, sometimes brooding, sometimes just standing there with a great chin strong and silent type with a touch of roguish charm.

JRPG's are fond of doing the 'I'll be your hero!' cliche, Snow in FF13 was a prime example of that, horrible character.
Cliches and stereotypes are so boring.

See, I don't think that is a fair portrayal of American Comics in general.  But the comic covers do not do a good job of conveying what is inside.  They are not inviting.  Pretty much every time I talk to girls about American comics as opposed to Manga they say "I just like the art style better."  And I bet you that is a polite way of saying "I don't like looking at female characters who have their costumes unzipped to show their boobs."

Those cliches exist, but in general American Comics are as much or even more so interested in portraying complex and interesting female characters than Manga.  Where comics have a problem is in MARKETING.  Girls simply just don't know any better.

Video games can learn from this.  And EA in general may want to think about ways to make their games more inviting to female gamers.

Modifié par Shimmer_Gloom, 27 avril 2011 - 08:25 .

[ReinaHW]

I'm not fond of comics - American nor Manga - in general. Got bored of the cliches and prefer books myself, love to use my own imagination than to see it all laid out before me.

The video game industry is in dire need of growing up beyond the whole 'male demographic, males rule' thing that is causing the industry to be stuck in the rut it's been in for a while.
Times change, the industry needs to change with them in more than just prettier looking visuals to bring out the usual male lead only while blowing things up.

[Chuvvy]

The first in a very long line of these threads that will pop up from now until ME3 is released.

[Xaijin]

82% of people play maleshep. Marketing dictates that the largest amount be reached in venue with the least amount of dollars to maximize performance. It has rather little to do with vaginas or having them or not. In fact, quite the opposite.

I think JRPGs are great. And I think a big part of the reason girls are attracted to them (and Manga and other things from Japan) is because their treatment of female characters have a perception of being better than the Western Gaming Market right now. And the Western Comics market too.

you are in complete denial. Most JRPGs treat women as cardboard stereotypes, without exception, as does the rest of japanese popular media, which is about 20 years behind the rest of the world in referencing sexual equality. Making statements like that makes it very hard to take you seriously.

[TomY90]

Slidell505 wrote...

The first in a very long line of these threads that will pop up from now until ME3 is released.

you better get used to it we will be having alot of threads on all sorts of similar lines

[Rurik_Niall]

The best way to advertise it in my opinion is to simply showcase the gameplay. If there's one thing I hate it's a theatrical teaser trailer. Sure they look pretty and everything, but they don't tell you what to expect in game.

From Bioware, the multi-award winning studio that brought you Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, the Baldur's Gate Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, and Jade Empire comes the heavily anticipated sequel to Mass Effect.

Cue ME2 logo.

Control Commander Shepard as you assemble a squad of specialists to stop the imminent Reaper threat.

Cue flashes of several squad maters such as Miranda, Mordin, and Grunt.

Issue orders and use the environment to your advantage in new strategic ways.

Show some footage highlighting the ability to order squad mates to specific locations, switch weapons, and use powers.

Use the new interrupt system to add to the cinematic feel of dialogues.

Show some choice examples of interrupts.

Become the ultimate hero...

Footage of Paragon in action.

...or the ultimate badass.

Footage of Renegade in action. And end with the logo once again displayed as Miranda says "If we lose Shepard then humanity might well follow..."

[Kusy]

ReinaHW wrote...

Most American comics tend to protray women as little more than either villians, shrinking violets, play toys for men, almost naked, emo teen types or the happy to serve slave.

What the duck? You mad?

-Wonderwoman
-Mrs. Marvel
-Jane Gray aka. Phoenix
-Rogue
-Mystique
-Psylocke
-Catwoman
-Super Girl
-Spider Girl
-Black Cat
-Bat Girl
-She Spawn

Both villians and super heroes, sidekicks and main characters.
And I can go on quite long... even the friggin Powerpuffgirls if you want.
You have no idea what you are talking about dear, stop making a fool out of yourself.

Modifié par Mr.Kusy, 27 avril 2011 - 08:46 .

[AshleyS3]

I don't think it's a bad idea for them to make it clear that the main character is customizable.

I only started playing this game because I got it for free for having bought DA2. I probably would have purchased it sooner if I knew that I could customize the character. A set protagonist for me is just not as fun to role play.

[TomY90]

Rurik_Niall wrote...

The best way to advertise it in my opinion is to simply showcase the gameplay. If there's one thing I hate it's a theatrical teaser trailer. Sure they look pretty and everything, but they don't tell you what to expect in game.

From Bioware, the multi-award winning studio that brought you Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic, the Baldur's Gate Trilogy, Dragon Age: Origins, and Jade Empire comes the heavily anticipated sequel to Mass Effect.

Cue ME2 logo.

Control Commander Shepard as you assemble a squad of specialists to stop the imminent Reaper threat.

Cue flashes of several squad maters such as Miranda, Mordin, and Grunt.

Issue orders and use the environment to your advantage in new strategic ways.

Show some footage highlighting the ability to order squad mates to specific locations, switch weapons, and use powers.

Use the new interrupt system to add to the cinematic feel of dialogues.

Show some choice examples of interrupts.

Become the ultimate hero...

Footage of Paragon in action.

...or the ultimate badass.

Footage of Renegade in action. And end with the logo once again displayed as Miranda says "If we lose Shepard then humanity might well follow..."

nice idea 

what about the launch trailer that was pretty sweet

[Shimmer_Gloom]

Xaijin wrote...

82% of people play maleshep. Marketing dictates that the largest amount be reached in venue with the least amount of dollars to maximize performance. It has rather little to do with vaginas or having them or not. In fact, quite the opposite.

I think JRPGs are great. And I think a big part of the reason girls are attracted to them (and Manga and other things from Japan) is because their treatment of female characters have a perception of being better than the Western Gaming Market right now. And the Western Comics market too.

you are in complete denial. Most JRPGs treat women as cardboard stereotypes, without exception, as does the rest of japanese popular media, which is about 20 years behind the rest of the world in referencing sexual equality. Making statements like that makes it very hard to take you seriously.

Really?  Way to completely generalize an entire medium of expression.  And even a whole country.

And you have to remember.  I'm not talking about REALITY here.  I'm talking about perception.  Girls tend to like things from Japan when it comes to more nerdy things like Comics and Video Games.  I posit that is becuase they perceive it as being more girl freindly.

I loved Celes from FFVI.  Freya and Beatrix from FFIX.  Yuna from X.  Ashe and Fran from XII.  They all struck me as interesting 3d characters.  And that's just Final Fantasy games.  So, at the very least they are the 'exception.'

[Shimmer_Gloom]

Also, @Kurt: can we tone down the rhetoric a bit? Nobody likes to be called a fool. Its not very nice.

[ReinaHW]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

ReinaHW wrote...

Most American comics tend to protray women as little more than either villians, shrinking violets, play toys for men, almost naked, emo teen types or the happy to serve slave.

What the duck? You mad?

-Wonderwoman
-Mrs. Marvel
-Jane Gray aka. Phoenix
-Rogue
-Mystique
-Psylocke
-Catwoman
-Super Girl
-Spider Girl
-Black Cat
-Bat Girl
-She Spawn

Both villians and super heroes, sidekicks and main characters.
And I can go on quite long... even the friggin Powerpuffgirls if you want.
You have no idea what you are talking about dear, stop making a fool out of yourself.

Like I said, I don't like comics, my childhood was spent reading a lot of books, doing a lot of studying and learning as much I could on things I found to be interesting.
Superheroes weren't part of that.

And many of them are very much the prime example of a male ideal of having women in less clothing and very stimulating body proporations that aren't at all realistic.

[Rurik_Niall]

To be fair, the male counterparts aren't much different in that regard frankly. When was the last time you saw a male superhero with a potbelly, blue jeans, and a plain white T-shirt. Now when was the last time you saw one with six pack abs of steel, sometimes in a very literal sense, massive biceps, and wearing spandex that look damn near painted on?