324 réponses à ce sujet

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Mr.Kusy wrote...

This toppic is about how Mass Effect is
not targeted to females but it should be but it shouldn't because it
won't get more money by targeting females anyways so it won't.

No, this topic is about how targeting both genders might increase income. It's still assumed they'd target men more, but it could help if they spent about 1-3% of their marketing budget producing material intended to appeal to both genders, showcasing a feature that many gamers are unaware of.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 28 avril 2011 - 09:12 .

[ReinaHW]

For some reason this reminds me of Star Trek: Voyager. When that series was annouced there was a lot of rage from many of the fans that the captain was a woman, in their eyes only males could be captains and that the series would be some soppy romance thing without action.

And then the series developed and Janeway's character showed someone who was a caring captain, but not a captain you would want to anger. She was dedicated to her crew and her ship, she was willing to give her life for her crew and to get them home.
She was intellingent, resourceful, diplomatic to a point, cunning, stubborn, strong willed and at times vulnerable. Although Seven of Nine was added in to be little more than the tiresome sex appeal to lure in the male teens, Janeway continued to be an excellent character who's character showed that female characters didn't have to be some shrinking violet who was only there to cling to a man and hope for protection like most women tend to be protrayed as in much of the media in order to make men feel like a stereotypical man.

While the male and female Shepard may share a great deal of the same script, Hale delivers a much better performance for female Shepard than Meer does for the male Shepard. Meer sounds like he can't be bothered, his performance is dry, lacks feeling behind the words, no inflection. The typical, bland male lead in other words.
While Hale makes the female Shepard sound not only like a strong willed woman, but someone who, despite her personal doubts, is determined to save as many lives as she can by any means and the way her inflections come through behind the words add depth to the female Shepard, making her a likeable character.

Yet female Shepard doesn't get any marketing attention like she deserves, Hale does an excellent job and she doesn't get any recognition on the box art, in the trailers and more.
Instead we get the posterboy for boring generio male space marine who can't tell a joke without sounding like a brick wall has more personality.

Media marketing is done in a backwards, outdated male focused way that ignores the fact that a female lead might actually be a great deal better and acted a lot better than any male. And a lot of the time they are.
Because of that it's no wonder that many female gamers don't realise that Bioware have gender choice in most of their games, they rarely ever showcase the female choice, only the male.

Think about it, imagine that you've never played a Bioware game before, never known that they had gender choice in their games and you want to play as a female character for a change. What would you think if you saw Mass Effect on the shelves?
Would you think that the game allows for choice of gender, that it's part shooter and RPG, or would you think 'Oh, yet another space marine game with a male space marine shooting things, ho hum, not interested'?

The cover doesn't say that Shepard can be male or female, it only shows some boring looking male who looks like the boring kind of action hero from 80s sci fi movies. It doesn't say that the game is part RPG and part shooter, despite the Bioware name on the case, since how would you know that Bioware does RPG's if you've never played an RPG before and any marketing you've seen only shows the male?

Bear in mind that not everyone has played Bioware's games, the majority of gaming that is showcased usually shows some bland, generic looking male while woman are either wearing very little, play toys for males in the games or the damsel in distress kind of female character.

Change is badly needed, in many areas.

[Rurik_Niall]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

We're not talking about whether or not specific characters are good role models. That isn't the issue here. I'm beginning to believe that it may be impossible to explain. One last ditch: this summary of various pieces of research related to how kids react to seeing their gender portrayed in media. The point is this: if you are told, either explicitly or implicitly, that your subgroup is less important, it can lead you to losing confidence in yourself, and various other bad things.

This is why games that portray gender equality are important, which is something that Mass Effect does. This is why people in groups who are less well-represented in media tend to enjoy media in which they are portrayed as equals.

If you assume that most girls know you can play as Female Shepard, you haven't been reading this thread. There's a huge amount of anecdotal evidence here with many girls coming in saying they didn't know you could play as FemShep for a long period of time. I myself have encountered very few people who haven't played Mass Effect but are aware that you can play as a girl. People who do realize it learned it from webcomics or word of mouth, usually years after the game was realeased. I've encountered more than a dozen gamers in the past month who play RPGs and do not know that you can play as a girl in Mass Effect.

Long story short: I think it's good when a game has female characters who aren't morons in it. I think that "women and men are portrayed as equal" is a huge positive tick in a game's favor. I think it is a valuable marketing message to get out there. I think gender equality it is a major selling point. The fact that a lot of people don't know that Mass Effect has this level of gender equality is a damn shame.

I believe portraying women and men as equal is positive. You say it shouldn't matter.

I am saying that, all other things being equal, any game where all the women are portrayed as useless is inherently worse than a game where genders are portrayed as equal. Would you disagree? 

Depends on the type of game. A game like Mass Effect it would be bad from a purely storytelling perspective, but even without female Shepard there are plenty of strong and intelligent females in the games, especially the second one. If the game is something more tongue in cheek however, like Duke Nukem, then I see no issues with portraying either gender in a negative light as it's being played for comedic value.

[ciaweth]

Good heavens. "I see no issues" != "there are no issues."

...But I don't know why any of us are bothering at this point. This pattern of just regurgitating the same unfounded assumptions, phrased only slightly differently each time, will continue.

[MGIII]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

The thing is, I have a lot of evidence to support my claims. You have absolutely none. Sure, my evidence is just a few dozen anecdotal claims,but you're just basing your conclusions on no experience or evidence whatsoever.

I'm basing my conclusion on a strong logical premise. All Bioware RPGs have gender options. Mass Effect is a Bioware RPG. It stands to reason it will have gender options.

As opposed to the looser premise that "it looks like fantasy, ergo, I can choose a girl."

Furthermore, how you can even make your premise upon JRPGs offering more to girls relative to western RPGs based upon being able to play as a girl is ludicrous. Most western RPGs allow you to create your own character and forge your own story. That is what fundamentally sets them apart from their eastern counterparts.

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Yes, Mass Effect is partially a shooter. So is Portal. That doesn't stop girls from playing portal. I also know a lot of girls who play Metroid. I'd say about half the girls I know who play JRPGs have played one of the Metroid shooters... unless those don't count for some strange reason?

Portal is not a shooter. Mass Effect isn't partially a shooter, it is one. The rest is personal conjecture that I cannot comment on.

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Mass Effect is the best game I've ever played. Based on the cover, I would have had no idea it would be something I liked. I think a slightly different cover, or a reversable cover, might help people like me discover Mass Effect. And I think it's possible to design said cover in such a way that it would still feature Sheploo and not confuse anyone.

Ashley is on the cover. She's clearly a female. Miranda is on the cover. She's clearly female. What's your point? Any female can look at the cover and see that females are represented in Mass Effect.

You talk about ME's cover and how it doesn't convey to females that they're represented, yet it clearly does with both games' covers featuring a strong female role on the covers. Then you cite girls playing Fable, of which a female doesn't even exist anywhere on its games' covers. How can you chastise Bioware for their cover which shows a strong female on both its covers, then cover up Fable by saying it's made clear from marketing that you can play as a female, when it does no such thing? You expect ME to convey nuances such as gender customization in the game on its cover alone? People who don't know about ME will think they're two separate people.

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

We've offered dozens of ways this could be done, from a back cover shot of FemShep (which they did have for ME1), to having Manshep on the cover, and a suited Femshep in the background, or in the corner. Or you could have a reversible cover, and let each game store choose whether or not to display the alternate cover.

I think it's much more feasible to expand on the customization bulletpoint on the back cover to clearly state that you can play as maleShep or femShep, rather than trying to shoehorn a psuedo-character onto the cover in an awkward and confusing way.

Because, at the end of the day, being able to play as a man or woman is not a defining feature of ME. It's a defining feature of western RPGs.

Modifié par MGIII, 28 avril 2011 - 07:33 .

[Rurik_Niall]

Nyoka wrote...

@Rurik_Niall, I have to agree with claweth here. You keep saying "I don't see it", "I don't view the world in such a way", "I can't see a difference", etcetera. It would be more useful to take the rest of the world into consideration as well.

Why would I wish to do that when the rest of the world acts in such an illogical manner?

[Nexis7]

I'll be honest, when I first saw an ad for Mass Effect 2 i really thought it was a generic shooter.
It was only after watching a playthrough of me2 (I was bored ok D: ) i thought it seemed pretty cool and bought Mass Effect 1.

I think ME does really need to show off the whole 'make your own shepard' and stuff.

[Lancer-1289]

[off-topic post removed]

Modifié par Stanley Woo, 28 avril 2011 - 09:53 .

[MaynPayn]

Nexis7 wrote...

I'll be honest, when I first saw an ad for Mass Effect 2 i really thought it was a generic shooter.
It was only after watching a playthrough of me2 (I was bored ok D: ) i thought it seemed pretty cool and bought Mass Effect 1.

I think ME does really need to show off the whole 'make your own shepard' and stuff.

So if you got to see fem-shep in the trailer with a cleavage and a nice little bum(which they would most likely emphasis on). You would imediately go oh my god what an amazing story driven game.

[Almostfaceman]

ReinaHW wrote...

While the male and female Shepard may share a great deal of the same script, Hale delivers a much better performance for female Shepard than Meer does for the male Shepard. Meer sounds like he can't be bothered, his performance is dry, lacks feeling behind the words, no inflection. The typical, bland male lead in other words.
While Hale makes the female Shepard sound not only like a strong willed woman, but someone who, despite her personal doubts, is determined to save as many lives as she can by any means and the way her inflections come through behind the words add depth to the female Shepard, making her a likeable character.

Yet female Shepard doesn't get any marketing attention like she deserves, Hale does an excellent job and she doesn't get any recognition on the box art, in the trailers and more.
Instead we get the posterboy for boring generio male space marine who can't tell a joke without sounding like a brick wall has more personality.

A piece of friendly advice, insulting someone else's tastes in voice actors is not a good way to win them over.  Both voice actors did a fine job and they both deserve recognition.  This is not, however, what marketing is about.  Marketing's purpose is to Sell Games.

Media marketing is done in a backwards, outdated male focused way that ignores the fact that a female lead might actually be a great deal better and acted a lot better than any male. And a lot of the time they are.
Because of that it's no wonder that many female gamers don't realise that Bioware have gender choice in most of their games, they rarely ever showcase the female choice, only the male.

Think about it, imagine that you've never played a Bioware game before, never known that they had gender choice in their games and you want to play as a female character for a change. What would you think if you saw Mass Effect on the shelves?
Would you think that the game allows for choice of gender, that it's part shooter and RPG, or would you think 'Oh, yet another space marine game with a male space marine shooting things, ho hum, not interested'?

The cover doesn't say that Shepard can be male or female, it only shows some boring looking male who looks like the boring kind of action hero from 80s sci fi movies. It doesn't say that the game is part RPG and part shooter, despite the Bioware name on the case, since how would you know that Bioware does RPG's if you've never played an RPG before and any marketing you've seen only shows the male?

Bear in mind that not everyone has played Bioware's games, the majority of gaming that is showcased usually shows some bland, generic looking male while woman are either wearing very little, play toys for males in the games or the damsel in distress kind of female character.

Change is badly needed, in many areas.

Well the problem with this argument is that the marketing of Bioware's games has sold them millions of games.  Bioware has taken the icon of Sheploo (male Shepard) and used it to great effect. When people see the male Commander Shepard, it draws attention and it sells games. People see his image and recognize the brand, which has been built up over half a decade.

More than likely at this stage of the game coming up on Act 3, they don't want to change their marketing formula.

I don't want to insult anyone by saying any of this.  Personally, I have nothing against a female Shepard or a female Shepard being on the cover.

I've been in the marketing business.  Believe me, the marketing team for Bioware have done their homework.  They've surveyed people male and female.  They've watched purchase trends.  If they thought for one second that branding more towards a female audience would deliver per the dollars put into the marketing, they'd do it.  But they don't and that tells me that their research tells them that there's just not enough of a female audience interested in Mass Effect to invest the money.  Or, that putting FemShep on the cover doesn't attract more females.

[Stanley Woo]

Let's please remember that we can disagree with each other without resorting to name-calling or insults, and let's keep it on topic. thank you.

[Shimmer_Gloom]

@Almostfaceman: yes, Mass Effect has done well and and its marketing strategy has been, for the most part, successful in bringing people in the sort of people likely to play an actionRPG. Very successful even. But! I say that they could do better. EA has the money and resources to do a bit of marketing outside the the main demographic.

Mass Effect is a very flexible and robust property.  And its marketing just doesn't reflect that.

I don't contend that changing the marketing formula in a considerable way is the way to go, but I think since this is the last outing and they HAVE already built some name recognition and such that it gives them a bit of leeway for branching out into other markets or other consumers.

One of these could be girls. The reason they haven't, and I have seen this in other media companies (Warner Bros/DC for example) is that they often have no idea how to market effectively to women. Or even thin that they matter. They may see Mass Effect as a most successful as a niche (action) product and be unaware of its crossover potential.

And also, @MGIII: we talked about this yesterday. Bioware has worked hard to cultivate a brand and make a name for itself as an RPG developer but it just doesn't have the name recognition outside its niche rpg market. I know several friends that have played Mass Effect or KOTOR but didn't know who created it.

For example, Mass Effect has an appeal to action gamers (thus people who have never even heard of Balder's Gate) and KOTOR had an appeal with Star Wars fans but there is no reason why either of these types of gamers have ever heard of bioware or be familiar with their track record. Also, many casual gamers don't even pay attention to the developer name in the same way most movie-goers can't tell you who directed a film.

Mass Effect needs to apeal to more than just the hardcore RPG crowd and they have been pretty successful in doing so so far. Its just that they can do better. I know they can.

Modifié par Shimmer_Gloom, 28 avril 2011 - 10:07 .

[Kakistos_]

Almostfaceman wrote...
Well the problem with this argument is that the marketing of Bioware's games has sold them millions of games. 

You are neglecting the fact that there is a solid fan base of female gamers and that alternative advertisement could sell Bioware even more games. It should also be mentioned that Bioware is not responsible and has little control over the marketing strategies for their games.

[Shimmer_Gloom]

Kakistos_ wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...
Well the problem with this argument is that the marketing of Bioware's games has sold them millions of games. 

You are neglecting the fact that there is a solid fan base of female gamers and that alternative advertisement could sell Bioware even more games. It should also be mentioned that Bioware is not responsible and has little control over the marketing strategies for their games.

Is your screen name a shout out to Buffy?  If so... I aprove.

Also.  I was keenly aware of this when I started the thread.  Even if everyone on the forums agreed with me, its the BIOWARE forums.  And from everything I understand the devs have no control over marketing.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Almostfaceman wrote...

I've been in the marketing business.  Believe me, the marketing team for Bioware have done their homework.  They've surveyed people male and female.  They've watched purchase trends.  If they thought for one second that branding more towards a female audience would deliver per the dollars put into the marketing, they'd do it.  But they don't and that tells me that their research tells them that there's just not enough of a female audience interested in Mass Effect to invest the money.  Or, that putting FemShep on the cover doesn't attract more females.

See, I don't believe that marketing research is as infallible as many others seem to believe. I have reasons for believing this... a lot of these reasons revolve around the time I accidentally went out drinking with a group of community managers at GDC. 

Throughout this thread I've been suggesting something very small, very modest. I'll say it again here:

Cut together a few banner ads for Mass Effect that show a female commander Shepard in different situations, both talking with aliens and firing weapons. Have this ad link to a short gameplay trailer featuring both the default male and default female commander shepards, a trailer that puts slightly more emphasis on conversation and on female shepard. Heck, you could even hold a contest to find a good fan trailer to serve this purpose. Have a link to a storefront and/or Steam on the page where the banner leads, if you want. You can bury this trailer on your website, if you're worried about someone who isn't coming in from the girl webcomics banner stumbling on it.

Run these ads for a week or two on the sites for some webcomics with large nerdy female audiences. I've given the list before. Count clickthroughs. Count purchases. See if it works. I've reasearched advertising rates for these comics, and I know the cost of cutting together a small gameplay trailer. I'd estimate that this would cost less than $10,000. Do it without the trailer, and only advertise on 2-3 webcomics for a week or two? It could be done for under $2,000. Heck, I've SEEN it done (a two-week, three-webcomic advertising push) for under $500.

I find it hard to believe that putting $500 down on Girl Genius and letting it ride for three weeks is a bad risk. I've seen marketing spend more than that on ugly orange hats. And by god, those orange hats were awful. I never saw a single person wear one of them. Mine is collecting dust in a closet, tag still on it. Oh, the people who got the black hats wore them. But no, we have to get half of the hats in ORANGE, for some reason. I would have given anything to have that "100 orange hats" money to spend on web banners. Long story short: marketing does not always know exactly what they are doing.

I've seen these marketing surveys before. They're frustrating, especially from the standpoint of someone whose survey design background is psychology. Often they stress the aspects of the product that marketing believes are the most attractive, and downplay other aspects of the product.

Also, I think that marketers often fail to see that "girls" and "nerd girls" are two very different demographics. If you asked a hundred random girls and a hundred random boys you pulled in from a random mall about Mass
Effect, yeah you'd probably get terrible numbers from the girls. Now imagine you surveyed a hundred guys who read PvP and a hundred Girls who read Girl Genius (or Gunnerkrig Court, or Johnny Wander.) I think that a lot of marketing doesn't realize there are channels where they can laser-target only the nerdy girls (and guys who might be interested in strong female characters), and do so for almost no money.

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe the dozens and dozens of girls on these boards who say they didn't know that you could play as a girl in Mass Effect, and that they only bought the game when they learned that fact, are all just outliers. Maybe spending $500 to get the message of "femshep exists!" out to another ten thousand women is a fool's errand. But unless you've never bought an orange hat, I can't see how it can't at least be worth it to TRY.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 28 avril 2011 - 10:53 .

[Rurik_Niall]

Problem with banner ads is they aren't really effective anymore. Ten years ago sure, but now? Most modern browsers have some form of free ad blocker plugin, so it doesn't matter where you advertise a lot of people will never even see that banner ad.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Rurik_Niall wrote...

Problem with banner ads is they aren't really effective anymore. Ten years ago sure, but now? Most modern browsers have some form of free ad blocker plugin, so it doesn't matter where you advertise a lot of people will never even see that banner ad.

Actually, a significant portion of people use NoScript rather than Adblock. So if you have scriptless ads, they show up. That's what I do, when I have any blocker on at all. And Penny-Arcade banner ad runs are still considered very valuable. Also, for etsy merchants or comic sellers, I've seen webcomic banner ads pay off handsomely. A friend of mine who sells indie games said that they estimated something like $500 worth of sales for $60 worth of careful banner advertising.

I was once on a project where we did a scriptless, banner-ad-based "come and play again! 2 free weeks!" promotion on several webcomic sites. We got thousands of reactivated subscriptions, many of which persisted for several months. This was less than two years ago. So no, banner ads do work. You just have to know how to use them.

I can actually see a fun way to use the "people don't know about femshep" thing advantageously here. Do a campaign like this "She's saved the galaxy millions of times. But does she get any credit? Learn about the best-kept secret in AAA gaming."

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 28 avril 2011 - 11:01 .

[Kakistos_]

Shimmer_Gloom wrote...

Kakistos_ wrote...

Almostfaceman wrote...
Well the problem with this argument is that the marketing of Bioware's games has sold them millions of games. 

You are neglecting the fact that there is a solid fan base of female gamers and that alternative advertisement could sell Bioware even more games. It should also be mentioned that Bioware is not responsible and has little control over the marketing strategies for their games.

Is your screen name a shout out to Buffy?  If so... I aprove.

Also.  I was keenly aware of this when I started the thread.  Even if everyone on the forums agreed with me, its the BIOWARE forums.  And from everything I understand the devs have no control over marketing.

Kinda yes maybe. I initially chose it for the meaning of the name not a reference to the character and I am a huge Buffster fan. I thought I would add in the Bioware part because in the many threads I have participated in about equal rights for FemShep and Lady Hawke too often do I see people blasting Bioware for the marketing not under their control, so I set them straight. It's not fair to the female members of the Bioware team if people think their the ones being unfair.

[Rurik_Niall]

I use both NoScript and Adblock, I fear no ad, cookie grabber, phish, nor other threat/nuisance.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

I also want to second that emotion: in many cases, neither Developers nor Community have any direct control over what marketing decides to do. They can make suggestions, but in the end marketing does its own thing.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 28 avril 2011 - 11:04 .

[MaynPayn]

I see you guys really wanting this, but it seems more like if it were to be done, it would be to please 30-70 people. I could see it done as a cool gesture, but not a full marketing strategy.

Modifié par MaynPayn, 28 avril 2011 - 11:40 .

[Xaijin]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

Vast majority of gamers are not going to be familiar with bioware very well.

Wrong, and blatant skewing to boot. 5-7 million people are quite aware of me is and represents, and that covers only purchasers, not purveyors, and in addition also does not cover digital downloads, which puts it quite substantially ahead of the last iteration of the JRPG you mentioned as a counterpoint. Your use of subjective declaratives and FUD isn't particularly helping your position much.

Do you believe that everyone who has played Mass Effect knows that Bioware is a company famous for making RPGs? This is the same thread where others have argued that having a cover with a woman on it would make a huge number of people who played Mass Effect instantly confused, and would cause those people not to buy the game out of confusion and anger. But if everyone who is buying the game knows who Bioware is, and is buying the game because of the Bioware name, then having a woman on the cover should have no negative effect whatsoever.

Some people buy Mass Effect because they know Bioware makes great games. Some people buy Mass Effect because it won a lot of awards and got good reviews. Some people buy Mass Effect because they liked the cover. Some people buy Mass Effect because they went into a store looking for a shooter and they bought one.

What we are saying is this: some people would buy Mass Effect if we managed to get a message to them. "Science Fiction Double Feature! RPG RPG! Play as a girl or a guy, make friends with aliens, and save the world!"

These people aren't getting this message. How can we get them this message? Small scale ads targeted in female-dominated nerd media.

The end.

They have, and I am rather sure they will again for the final iteration. There were vignettes in Xbox official, UK and US, Game Informer, Replay, Edge actually had the game as part of their gender feature, Gamer's Republic/Play, and EGM before they when out of circulation, then there's IGN, Gametrailers, and GS. There are several instances where female shepard was specifically used as conveyance for the dev interview or product highlight, and Hale's pipes need rather little introduction or "backwork". She's literally in the top echelon of the field and currently without peer.

The main thrust of general marketing followed a trend established in 2004. It is not going to change now, nor should it. You are literally evangelizing for something that is actually already  taken care of.

You have also failed to account for say, the fact Liara and Tali must be used in 1 and are indispensable, but Garrus and Wrex are literally  disposable and don't even have to be recruited. Sexism? In my mass Effect?

Posited Salarian analogy implied that "women" are somehow fostered as a second  or misanthropomorphized class, when that clearly isn't the case, especially in regards, ironically, to the race you mentioned (Salarian women rule the roost), and of course Asari, whom are culturally recognized as female for all intents and purposes.

You're tilting at a windmill that is not only not the giant you portray it as, is not really there to begin with at all, and we never even got to the second part of your argument or covered offensive pandering.

Modifié par Xaijin, 28 avril 2011 - 11:09 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Xaijin wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

Vast majority of gamers are not going to be familiar with bioware very well.

Wrong, and blatant skewing to boot. 5-7 million people are quite aware of me is and represents, and that covers only purchasers, not purveyors, and in addition also does not cover digital downloads, which puts it quite substantially ahead of the last iteration of the JRPG you mentioned as a counterpoint. Your use of subjective declaratives and FUD isn't particularly helping your position much.

Do you believe that everyone who has played Mass Effect knows that Bioware is a company famous for making RPGs? This is the same thread where others have argued that having a cover with a woman on it would make a huge number of people who played Mass Effect instantly confused, and would cause those people not to buy the game out of confusion and anger. But if everyone who is buying the game knows who Bioware is, and is buying the game because of the Bioware name, then having a woman on the cover should have no negative effect whatsoever.

Some people buy Mass Effect because they know Bioware makes great games. Some people buy Mass Effect because it won a lot of awards and got good reviews. Some people buy Mass Effect because they liked the cover. Some people buy Mass Effect because they went into a store looking for a shooter and they bought one.

What we are saying is this: some people would buy Mass Effect if we managed to get a message to them. "Science Fiction Double Feature! RPG RPG! Play as a girl or a guy, make friends with aliens, and save the world!"

These people aren't getting this message. How can we get them this message? Small scale ads targeted in female-dominated nerd media.

The end.

They have, and I am rather sure they will again for the final iteration. There were vignettes in Xbox official, UK and US, Game Informer, Replay, Edge actually had the game as part of their gender feature, Gamer's Republic/Play, and EGM before they when out of circulation, then there's IGN, Gametrailers, and GS. There are several instances where female shepard was specifically used as conveyance for the dev interview or product highlight, and Hale's pipes need rather little introduction or "backwork". She's literally in the top echelon of the field and currently without peer.

The main thrust of general marketing followed a trend established in 2004. It is not going to change now, nor should it. You are literally evangelizing for something that is actually already  taken care of.

You have also failed to account for say, the fact Liara and Tali must be used in 1 and are indispensable, but Garrus and Wrex are literally  disposable and don't even have to be recruited. Sexism? In my mass Effect?

Posited Salarian analogy implied that "women" are somehow fostered as a second  or misanthropomorphized class, when that clearly isn't the case, especially in regards, ironically, to the race you mentioned (Salarian women rule the roost), and of course Asari, whom are culturally recognized as female for all intents and purposes.

You're tilting at a windmill that is not only not the giant you portray it as, is not really there to begin with at all, and we never even got to the second part of your argument or covered offensive pandering.

You completely misread my statement there.

I was saying that in gaming in general, women are portrayed less positively than they are in Mass Effect. So the fact that Mass Effect portrays women well should be shouted from the rooftops.

It was written in response to someone who says they do not understand why it is important to tell girls that Bioware treats women well. I say it is because most other game companies do not do as good of a job portraying women as Mass Effect does. I am saying that Mass Effect is one of the least sexist games ever made. In a gaming marketplace where a future shooter can be Gears of War or it can be Mass Effect, it is important to show girls that Mass Effect is not Gears of War.

I am also saying that, as is evidenced in this thread, there are many women who have not heard this message. Over and over women come into this thread and say "for a long time I didn't know you could play as female shepard!" And over and over men come into this thread and say "Everyone knows you can play as female Shepard."

Obviously the message isn't getting to the people it needs to get to. Is there any way to fix that?

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 28 avril 2011 - 11:24 .