324 réponses à ce sujet

[CulturalGeekGirl]

MaynPayn wrote...

I see you guys really wanting this, but it seems more like if it were to be done, it would be to please 30-70 people. I could see it done as a cool gesture, but not a full marketing strategy.

I honestly don't care if they please me. They already have me. I already believe that Mass Effect 1 & 2 are, collectively, the best game ever made.

We don't want an ad campaign that shows a female Shepard to feed our egos, or validate us in some way. We want it to reach people like us, who are, as yet, unreached. I am being totally, straighfacedly serious when I say that I am saddened by the fact that I spent three  years of my life not knowing the wonder that is Mass Effect, when I could have been playing it. I'm not freaking kidding, here. I wish I had $1000 to spend on N7 Hoodies right now, to prove my point. I would have a wardrobe composed entirely of Mass Effect merchandise, if I had known about the game two years ago. I have never loved any game as much as I love this one. I have never fanned this hard over ANYTHING, in the history of me.

I'm saying there are probably thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of girls out there who play RPGs, but don't realize that Mass Effect is a heavily story-and-character-based RPG where you can play as a female commander who saves the universe (with optional romantic adventures). And yes there's some shooting in there, but it's actually not-that-scary. It's totally do-able, even if you've never played a shooter before. I used to be an anime fan. i'm not really one anymore, but having that background... helps. I've been in a convention center with 10,000 other girls, most of whom play games. I've seen them with my own eyes. talked with them. So I have evidence of their existence. I've been on a panel where two girls and a guy teach a mix-gendered room about the history of the Megami-tensei series. I've seen a girl spend hundreds of hours on a fan translation of a falcom RPG. These girls are hungry for stories.  They are hungry for heroes.

And they don't know about Mass Effect.

And that makes me SAD.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 28 avril 2011 - 11:32 .

[Aggie Punbot]

Marketing has to be designed with what will attract the most number of customers, not what is politically correct or what is "fair". The fact is, female gamers have proven that they will buy games with a male protagonist far more readily than male gamers will buy games with a female protagonist. If you want to rage about why fem Shep is not given more attention, blame gaming society in general and not Bioware/EA Games. They are marketing to the largest (nearly) guaranteed demographic and the simple fact of the matter is that more men are gamers than women.

People are stupid; if you include two different protagonists in a marketing campaign, the casual gamer will get confused and it will likely result in a lost sale. I would like to see fem Shep get some marketing attention too, but I would much rather not risk the Mass Effect franchise being blown to pieces by a potentially failed marketing campaign.

As I said in that other thread, if people are really concerned over other people not knowing that you can play as a female in Mass Effect, get the word out yourselves. Word of Mouth ™ made Dragon Age: Origins a big hit and it could work for Mass Effect 3 if you really work at it. But I don't want the higher ups to risk their profit margin (the only thing that matters to EA Games) by catering to people that don't understand how marketing works.

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 28 avril 2011 - 11:33 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

TS2Aggie wrote...

Marketing has to be designed with what will attract the most number of customers, not what is politically correct or what is "fair". The fact is, female gamers have proven that they will buy games with a male protagonist far more readily than male gamers will buy games with a female protagonist. If you want to rage about why fem Shep is not given more attention, blame gaming society in general and not Bioware/EA Games. They are marketing to the largest (nearly) guaranteed demographic and the simple fact of the matter is that more men are gamers than women.

People are stupid; if you include two different protagonists in a marketing campaign, the casual gamer will get confused and it will likely result in a lost sale. I would like to see fem Shep get some marketing attention too, but I would much rather not risk the Mass Effect franchise being blown to pieces by a potentially failed marketing campaign.

True, but do you believe that a smaller campaign, aimed a female-centric publications (like some female friendly webcomics, female-centric gaming blogs) that represented less than 1% of the total marketing push, would be likely to cause confusion?

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 28 avril 2011 - 11:37 .

[JeffZero]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

TS2Aggie wrote...

Marketing has to be designed with what will attract the most number of customers, not what is politically correct or what is "fair". The fact is, female gamers have proven that they will buy games with a male protagonist far more readily than male gamers will buy games with a female protagonist. If you want to rage about why fem Shep is not given more attention, blame gaming society in general and not Bioware/EA Games. They are marketing to the largest (nearly) guaranteed demographic and the simple fact of the matter is that more men are gamers than women.

People are stupid; if you include two different protagonists in a marketing campaign, the casual gamer will get confused and it will likely result in a lost sale. I would like to see fem Shep get some marketing attention too, but I would much rather not risk the Mass Effect franchise being blown to pieces by a potentially failed marketing campaign.

True, but do you believe that a smaller campaign, aimed a female-centric publications (like some female friendly webcomics, female-centric gaming blogs) that represented less than 1% of the total marketing push, would be likely to cause confusion?

I know I'm not TS2Aggie, but as someone who has (with great sadness) agreed with them on many things in this thread, I would say no. This would be a great way of going about.

[Aggie Punbot]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

True, but do you believe that a smaller campaign, aimed a female-centric publications (like some female friendly webcomics, female-centric gaming blogs) that represented less than 1% of the total marketing push, would be likely to cause confusion?

Would that small of a marketing blitz even be worth the money and time it would take to create it? Why don't the people that feel this strongly about the issue take it upon themselves to advertise the fact that you can play as a fem Shep? Word of mouth worked for DA:O, it could work here as well.

The problem I have with a lot of fem Shep supporters is that they generally promote fem Shep at the expense of male Shep and they come off as looking like a bunch of man-hating feminist extremists. People don't seem to be able to promote her without tearing down male Shep and that's just really sad because she really quite good on her own without having to resort to such nastiness.

Also: some people play video games to play video games and not get involved in gender politics. If someone wants to play as a male Shep, let them. If someone wants to play as a fem Shep, let them. Don't guilt or bully someone into playing as a fem Shep if they don't want to.

Modifié par TS2Aggie, 28 avril 2011 - 11:39 .

[MaynPayn]

Also I don't get how you think that there are enough people that would get into Mass Effect just by watching something with a girls face on it to make a new marketing strategy profitable.

If you are a gamer and are willing to invest your time into the ME universe you would have heard of the game already and you would have invested your time and money into the game, because Mass Effect haven't exactly lacked PR.

I just don't see how slapping a female face on the PR would improve sales if anything a marketing strategy for ME should show how choices matters in the game with the old face, because changing out Mark Hamill in Return of The Jedi would confuse costumers not enlighten them.

Modifié par MaynPayn, 28 avril 2011 - 11:42 .

[Aggie Punbot]

Does anyone remember when Mass Effect used to be about playing a fun video game and was not a platform for gender politics? Seriously, I don't think any fan-based campaign has ever sucked the fun out of a game as thoroughly as this one has.

[Ananka]

JeffZero wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

TS2Aggie wrote...

Marketing has to be designed with what will attract the most number of customers, not what is politically correct or what is "fair". The fact is, female gamers have proven that they will buy games with a male protagonist far more readily than male gamers will buy games with a female protagonist. If you want to rage about why fem Shep is not given more attention, blame gaming society in general and not Bioware/EA Games. They are marketing to the largest (nearly) guaranteed demographic and the simple fact of the matter is that more men are gamers than women.

People are stupid; if you include two different protagonists in a marketing campaign, the casual gamer will get confused and it will likely result in a lost sale. I would like to see fem Shep get some marketing attention too, but I would much rather not risk the Mass Effect franchise being blown to pieces by a potentially failed marketing campaign.

True, but do you believe that a smaller campaign, aimed a female-centric publications (like some female friendly webcomics, female-centric gaming blogs) that represented less than 1% of the total marketing push, would be likely to cause confusion?

I know I'm not TS2Aggie, but as someone who has (with great sadness) agreed with them on many things in this thread, I would say no. This would be a great way of going about.

I agree.
I do think CulturalGeekGirl is on to something and I hope that Bioware will listen to her. I think she has made her case very well both in this thread and in others.

Modifié par Annaka, 28 avril 2011 - 11:50 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

TS2Aggie wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

True, but do you believe that a smaller campaign, aimed a female-centric publications (like some female friendly webcomics, female-centric gaming blogs) that represented less than 1% of the total marketing push, would be likely to cause confusion?

Would that small of a marketing blitz even be worth the money and time it would take to create it? Why don't the people that feel this strongly about the issue take it upon themselves to advertise the fact that you can play as a fem Shep? Word of mouth worked for DA:O, it could work here as well.

The problem I have with a lot of fem Shep supporters is that they generally promote fem Shep at the expense of male Shep and they come off as looking like a bunch of man-hating feminist extremists. People don't seem to be able to promote her without tearing down male Shep and that's just really sad because she really quite good on her own without having to resort to such nastiness.

The majority of female posters in this thread have acknowledged that the default Male Shep is an iconic image and should still be the focus of the vast majority of marketing for the game. They often point out that FemShep was on the back cover for Mass Effect 1, but is nowhere to be seen on the box for ME2. Why is that?

Yes, a lot of players of female Shepard prefer her over the male version. I prefer her, for a number of reasons. This isn't because I hate dudes, I just don't find the default male Shepard as appealing as I find other male characters, like Nathan Drake or Guybrush Threepwood. If he were the only choice, I probably would never have completed a playthrough of Mass Effect. That's just a matter of taste.

As for why this discussion has gotten frustrating, it's a common story in games. Female gamers are trying to convince peole that they exist, and that, if a company would just try to communicate with them, that company might sell more games. And other people show up and tell the women that they are alone, that there is nobody else out there like them, that they should stop talking. Girls come in here and say they were unaware that you could play as a female, and guys say that it's impossible that anyone who would enjoy the game could be unaware that you can play as a female.

And maybe you are right. Maybe there are no other girls out there like me, or there are so few of them that I am irrelevant, a statistical anomaly, a monster, a unicorn. But it's hard for the freak to see she is a freak, especially when there are so many others here, singing with the same voice. I will concede, however, that perhaps I am alone.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 29 avril 2011 - 12:03 .

[MaynPayn]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

MaynPayn wrote...

I see you guys really wanting this, but it seems more like if it were to be done, it would be to please 30-70 people. I could see it done as a cool gesture, but not a full marketing strategy.

I honestly don't care if they please me. They already have me. I already believe that Mass Effect 1 & 2 are, collectively, the best game ever made.

We don't want an ad campaign that shows a female Shepard to feed our egos, or validate us in some way. We want it to reach people like us, who are, as yet, unreached. I am being totally, straighfacedly serious when I say that I am saddened by the fact that I spent three  years of my life not knowing the wonder that is Mass Effect, when I could have been playing it. I'm not freaking kidding, here. I wish I had $1000 to spend on N7 Hoodies right now, to prove my point. I would have a wardrobe composed entirely of Mass Effect merchandise, if I had known about the game two years ago. I have never loved any game as much as I love this one. I have never fanned this hard over ANYTHING, in the history of me.

I'm saying there are probably thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of girls out there who play RPGs, but don't realize that Mass Effect is a heavily story-and-character-based RPG where you can play as a female commander who saves the universe (with optional romantic adventures). And yes there's some shooting in there, but it's actually not-that-scary. It's totally do-able, even if you've never played a shooter before. I used to be an anime fan. i'm not really one anymore, but having that background... helps. I've been in a convention center with 10,000 other girls, most of whom play games. I've seen them with my own eyes. talked with them. So I have evidence of their existence. I've been on a panel where two girls and a guy teach a mix-gendered room about the history of the Megami-tensei series. I've seen a girl spend hundreds of hours on a fan translation of a falcom RPG. These girls are hungry for stories.  They are hungry for heroes.

And they don't know about Mass Effect.

And that makes me SAD.

I know there are girl gamers, but I also know girl gamers knows how to keep themselves updated on new games and you really don't need to be well informed about games to know about Mass Effect, hell my mom knows about Mass Effect.
Not to be rude, but there aren't tens of thusands of girl gamers that don't know about Mass Effect that's just jibberish.

I also love the ME universe BTW and that's probably why I visit this page and I simply don't agree with your marketing strategy even though you dont want to call it that. I belive a marketing strategy for ME right now should be focused on the ability to sway your story and the fast paced gameplay. 

[MaynPayn]

TS2Aggie wrote...

Does anyone remember when Mass Effect used to be about playing a fun video game and was not a platform for gender politics? Seriously, I don't think any fan-based campaign has ever sucked the fun out of a game as thoroughly as this one has.

Sorry, but I just think running two separate marketing campaigns would confuse customers.
also this isn't exactly gender politics it's more of a discussion of were we want the marketing to head.
Edit: whoops it seems like we are on the same level about this, but I'll leave this here cause I really feel like a comment like this should not stand unanswered.

Modifié par MaynPayn, 29 avril 2011 - 12:17 .

[Xaijin]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Xaijin wrote...

Vast majority of gamers are not going to be familiar with bioware very well.

Wrong, and blatant skewing to boot. 5-7 million people are quite aware of me is and represents, and that covers only purchasers, not purveyors, and in addition also does not cover digital downloads, which puts it quite substantially ahead of the last iteration of the JRPG you mentioned as a counterpoint. Your use of subjective declaratives and FUD isn't particularly helping your position much.

Do you believe that everyone who has played Mass Effect knows that Bioware is a company famous for making RPGs? This is the same thread where others have argued that having a cover with a woman on it would make a huge number of people who played Mass Effect instantly confused, and would cause those people not to buy the game out of confusion and anger. But if everyone who is buying the game knows who Bioware is, and is buying the game because of the Bioware name, then having a woman on the cover should have no negative effect whatsoever.

Some people buy Mass Effect because they know Bioware makes great games. Some people buy Mass Effect because it won a lot of awards and got good reviews. Some people buy Mass Effect because they liked the cover. Some people buy Mass Effect because they went into a store looking for a shooter and they bought one.

What we are saying is this: some people would buy Mass Effect if we managed to get a message to them. "Science Fiction Double Feature! RPG RPG! Play as a girl or a guy, make friends with aliens, and save the world!"

These people aren't getting this message. How can we get them this message? Small scale ads targeted in female-dominated nerd media.

The end.

They have, and I am rather sure they will again for the final iteration. There were vignettes in Xbox official, UK and US, Game Informer, Replay, Edge actually had the game as part of their gender feature, Gamer's Republic/Play, and EGM before they when out of circulation, then there's IGN, Gametrailers, and GS. There are several instances where female shepard was specifically used as conveyance for the dev interview or product highlight, and Hale's pipes need rather little introduction or "backwork". She's literally in the top echelon of the field and currently without peer.

The main thrust of general marketing followed a trend established in 2004. It is not going to change now, nor should it. You are literally evangelizing for something that is actually already  taken care of.

You have also failed to account for say, the fact Liara and Tali must be used in 1 and are indispensable, but Garrus and Wrex are literally  disposable and don't even have to be recruited. Sexism? In my mass Effect?

Posited Salarian analogy implied that "women" are somehow fostered as a second  or misanthropomorphized class, when that clearly isn't the case, especially in regards, ironically, to the race you mentioned (Salarian women rule the roost), and of course Asari, whom are culturally recognized as female for all intents and purposes.

You're tilting at a windmill that is not only not the giant you portray it as, is not really there to begin with at all, and we never even got to the second part of your argument or covered offensive pandering.

You completely misread my statement there.

I was saying that in gaming in general, women are portrayed less positively than they are in Mass Effect. So the fact that Mass Effect portrays women well should be shouted from the rooftops.

It was written in response to someone who says they do not understand why it is important to tell girls that Bioware treats women well. I say it is because most other game companies do not do as good of a job portraying women as Mass Effect does. I am saying that Mass Effect is one of the least sexist games ever made. In a gaming marketplace where a future shooter can be Gears of War or it can be Mass Effect, it is important to show girls that Mass Effect is not Gears of War.

I am also saying that, as is evidenced in this thread, there are many women who have not heard this message. Over and over women come into this thread and say "for a long time I didn't know you could play as female shepard!" And over and over men come into this thread and say "Everyone knows you can play as female Shepard."

Obviously the message isn't getting to the people it needs to get to. Is there any way to fix that?

I think in ME's case it has, unless you can point me to a source outside of your personal purview. DevArt has absolutely sh!tons of FemShep art, despite the fact that 80+/- people thatr picked up the game are male, and many let's plays feature FeShep, and given Hale's performance, it's not particularly hard to see why.

There is a difference between reaching those who have no strong opinion, and those whom have made up their mind based on a casual onceover from ONE source, which is rather likely why the marketing team chose as they did, for better or worse. A rather simple method in the beginning would have been to show each iteration of Shepard in tandem with same teamates during the "extended action" TV trailers, (Horizon, Feros), but that was then. Now? Grassroots is the probably the only likely method, but again, the dismissive, whether male or female, are just that. Preaching to those who wish not to take a further look in the first place is quite literally wasted money.

[Almostfaceman]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

TS2Aggie wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

True, but do you believe that a smaller campaign, aimed a female-centric publications (like some female friendly webcomics, female-centric gaming blogs) that represented less than 1% of the total marketing push, would be likely to cause confusion?

Would that small of a marketing blitz even be worth the money and time it would take to create it? Why don't the people that feel this strongly about the issue take it upon themselves to advertise the fact that you can play as a fem Shep? Word of mouth worked for DA:O, it could work here as well.

The problem I have with a lot of fem Shep supporters is that they generally promote fem Shep at the expense of male Shep and they come off as looking like a bunch of man-hating feminist extremists. People don't seem to be able to promote her without tearing down male Shep and that's just really sad because she really quite good on her own without having to resort to such nastiness.

The majority of female posters in this thread have acknowledged that the default Male Shep is an iconic image and should still be the focus of the vast majority of marketing for the game. They often point out that FemShep was on the back cover for Mass Effect 1, but is nowhere to be seen on the box for ME2. Why is that?

Yes, a lot of players of female Shepard prefer her over the male version. I prefer her, for a number of reasons. This isn't because I hate dudes, I just don't find the default male Shepard as appealing as I find other male characters, like Nathan Drake or Guybrush Threepwood. If he were the only choice, I probably would never have completed a playthrough of Mass Effect. That's just a matter of taste.

As for why this discussion has gotten frustrating, it's a common story in games. Female gamers are trying to convince peole that they exist, and that, if a company would just try to communicate with them, that company might sell more games. And other people show up and tell the women that they are alone, that there is nobody else out there like them, that they should stop talking. Girls come in here and say they were unaware that you could play as a female, and guys say that it's impossible that anyone who would enjoy the game could be unaware that you can play as a female.

And maybe you are right. Maybe there are no other girls out there like me, or there are so few of them that I am irrelevant, a statistical anomaly, a monster, a unicorn. But it's hard for the freak to see she is a freak, especially when there are so many others here, singing with the same voice. I will concede, however, that perhaps I am alone.

Well I can't speak for anyone else.  Most of what I read on these forums is complaints about there being no femshep on the marketing (like GI cover) or on the box cover-art.  This is the first I've read anyone mention a small campaign aimed at females through banners or some-such.

If Bioware has a budget for it they should market to females in any way they can afford.

For some reason they haven't.  There may be a reason why. I'm curious as to what it would be.

[MaynPayn]

Nyoka wrote...

Hey, I've thought of something. Why don't I just copy and paste a post I wrote earlier that only got two responses? Hopefully I'll get more opinions now.

In ME2—a game remarkably neutral about being played by men or women because both Sheps are esentially the same person, meaning this is not your typical dudes game like Duke Nukem or GoW—we have 80% Mansheps and 20% Femsheps. Judging by the Manshep and Femshep threads in this forums and the people posting there, I think it wouldn't be too risky to say that the percentages of male and female buyers shouldn't be very different to that ratio 80/20.

But in general, the population of gamers is 60% men and 40% women. (EDIT: this is according to
the Entertainment Software Association)

Something isn't working here. Where are the rest of the women? Why aren't they buying this game, even when Femshep is, in terms of gameplay, animations, voice, and overall polishing, at the same level as Manshep?

Let's put it in numbers. ME2 sold about 3 million copies overall. Given the stats above, that's 2.4m guys and 0.6m girls. To get to the common expected ratio of 60/40, you need an extra million women buying the game. Where are they? Why didn't they buy it?

Those 2 responses I got were "maybe women don't like Mass Effect" and "I don't believe those numbers".

before I comment on your comment here I need to know where you have gotten the 2.4m and the 0.6m from?

[Destroy Raiden_]

It's the last game in the series and Mshep has been known for years now is not the time to stick her on all their promo things sense zero of the none players in the general population know Jane. If they did a CG commercial with her as squad leader in the video the watcher would then see Mass Effect 3 and be like who's the girl? I thought that army guy was the squad leader? They'd be confused and confusing people doesn't bring them to your product it makes them find something less confusing to like.

[Vez04]

Modifié par Vez04, 29 avril 2011 - 12:50 .

[Kakistos_]

"sigh" This is the LadyHawke thread all over again. A very good point that was brought up in a similar thread months ago was that not only is their a lack of advertisment geared toward the consideral female fan base, there is hardly any info in the main site at all. If you go to the main Dragon age or Mass Effect sites you will have to search and search for any, if any info regarding the female option. What was proposed and what I think is being proposed here is little more than a few screen shots or somewhere a line of text that states "You can choose your characters gender." Is this REALLY asking too much?

[MaynPayn]

so that's what a marketing strategy/campaign is?!

[ianmcdonald]

TS2Aggie wrote...

Does anyone remember when Mass Effect used to be about playing a fun video game and was not a platform for gender politics? Seriously, I don't think any fan-based campaign has ever sucked the fun out of a game as thoroughly as this one has.

This. This forever.

[Kakistos_]

MaynPayn wrote...

so that's what a marketing strategy/campaign is?!

Obviously not. It does play a hand in advertisment. A 30 second TV spot can only do and tell so much and anyone genually interested in the game would probably check out it's main site to get some info. In this case information on a key feature is either absent or difficult to find.

[MaynPayn]

Kakistos_ wrote...

MaynPayn wrote...

so that's what a marketing strategy/campaign is?!

Obviously not. It does play a hand in advertisment. A 30 second TV spot can only do and tell so much and anyone genually interested in the game would probably check out it's main site to get some info. In this case information on a key feature is either absent or difficult to find.

I do agree with you on this one actually, I mean when the real "mainstream" marketing has begun and when "everybody" knows that ME3 is right around the corner a short Tv spot could do the job perfectly like you are suggessting and if Bioware don't want to do that they can perhaps run an ad or two with both Sheps.

Modifié par MaynPayn, 29 avril 2011 - 01:00 .

[Xeranx]

TS2Aggie wrote...

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

True, but do you believe that a smaller campaign, aimed a female-centric publications (like some female friendly webcomics, female-centric gaming blogs) that represented less than 1% of the total marketing push, would be likely to cause confusion?

Would that small of a marketing blitz even be worth the money and time it would take to create it? Why don't the people that feel this strongly about the issue take it upon themselves to advertise the fact that you can play as a fem Shep? Word of mouth worked for DA:O, it could work here as well.

The problem I have with a lot of fem Shep supporters is that they generally promote fem Shep at the expense of male Shep and they come off as looking like a bunch of man-hating feminist extremists. People don't seem to be able to promote her without tearing down male Shep and that's just really sad because she really quite good on her own without having to resort to such nastiness.

Also: some people play video games to play video games and not get involved in gender politics. If someone wants to play as a male Shep, let them. If someone wants to play as a fem Shep, let them. Don't guilt or bully someone into playing as a fem Shep if they don't want to.

I just want to emphasize the bold part.  I am a male who primarily plays a female Shepard, but I can't participate in the femShep thread because of how caustic it appears to be.  There's the added bit about me creating Shepards who are of color and the ones mainly celebrated are caucasian, but maybe that's for another thread.

[MaynPayn]

Nyoka wrote...

MaynPayn wrote...

before I comment on your comment here I need to know where you have gotten the 2.4m and the 0.6m from?

Yes, I edited that part out (8 minutes before you posted, I should add--I'm not editing posts retroactively) but the forum won't update my post until two hours later or something xD It's something that happens in these forums, dunno why. I was making a what I think it's a reasonable supposition based on who posts in the Manshep and Femshep threads predominantly. I don't think it's too far-fetched to guesstimate that Manshep would be played mostly by men and Femshep by women. NOW NOW I KNOW THIS IS NOT ABSOLUTE. You don't need to tell me about that Femshep you have, I know, believe me. But to think that there is no correlation men/Manshep and women/Femshep whatsoever would be a contradiction to what we see in both Sheps' threads. There is a correlation, that can't be disputed. How strong is that correlation however is something we can't know, and that's why I edited that part out. I don't want you to respond to that part. I will stick to the percentages given by the ESA and the ME2 statistics.

I'm sorry, but I cant help myself to give you another generic response and say that the precentage might count really casual gamers as gamers, I mean like Angry birds casual or they they are playing WoW or a jrpg. I know lotsa female gamers that play WoW or some jrpg and that's as far as they immerse themselves into the world of gaming. I dont know. There's either something wrong with the numbers or there are something wrong with 50% of female gamers