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[Saintthanksgiving]

 With the release of Appearance Pack 1 we finally get to the bottom of the mystery of the missing toolset.

• was it a sacrifice made to the gods of developement schedule?  
• was it a casualty of what many people described  as a "consolization" of the series?
• was it being witheld so that the integrity of the core game was protected, at least until the initial sales calmed down?

OR

Was it because the toolset provided free access to content that Bioware could charge you money for?

     Do any of the people who jumped down my throat when i cursed bioware for shoehorning DA2 into a Mass Effect with swords want to chime back in here?

     When people asked why the developers removed the ability to equip companions, the "party line"  was that equipping companions with found items and armor somehow detracted from that character.  Fine.  I didn't like it but fine.

( I happen to think that wearing the same outfit for the better part of a decade is worse.... but whatever.)

Then the first DLC content is released, and shocker of all shockers.... Its New armor and items for you and your companions!... for the low low price of 5 bucks.


This is not, as many PC users feared, a consolization of the series.  Bioware just realized they could squeeze another five bucks out of you.  Before anyone else says it... Bioware is in the buisness of making money.  Good for them. 

Modifié par Saintthanksgiving, 27 avril 2011 - 10:38 .

[astrallite]

They need to release more item DLC so they can fund story DLC.

Then they can use the funding from story DLC to work on the toolset DLC because at this point it would be too unpolished!

Then they will drop the toolset DLC because it won't adhere to Bioware's high standards.

[Rockpopple]

What is this Appearance Pack 1 of which you speak? I have not heard of this. It's not on Dragon Age II's website and I'd think by 4:20pm EST, it would be up there by now...

St. Thanksgiving, this goes beyond your usual hate-on for this game: now you've gone into "Make Crap Up" Territory. You're completely blowing up any credibility you have as a poster here. Turn around! 

Is it too much to ask for you to wait until BioWare actually announces/releases an Appearance Pack before you take your victory lap?

Modifié par Rockpopple, 27 avril 2011 - 08:22 .

[Persephone]

Saintthanksgiving wrote...

 With the release of Appearance Pack 1 we finally get to the bottom of the mystery of the missing toolset.

• was it a sacrifice made to the gods of developement schedule?  
• was it a casualty of what many people described  as a "consolization" of the series?
• was it being witheld so that the integrity of the core game was protected, at least until the initial sales calmed down?

OR

Was it because the toolset provided free access to content that Bioware could charge you money for?

     Do any of the people who jumped down my throat when i cursed bioware for shoehorning DA2 into a Mass Effect with swords want to chime back in here?

     When people asked why the developers removed the ability to equip companions, the "party line"  was that equipping companions with found items and armor somehow detracted from that character.  Fine.  I didn't like it but fine.

( I happen to think that wearing the same outfit for the better part of a decade is worse.... but whatever.)

Then the first DLC content is released, and shocker of all shockers.... Its a New Outfit for your companions!
... for the low low price of 5 bucks.


This is not, as many PC users feared, a consolization of the series.  Bioware just realized they could squeeze another five bucks out of you.  Before anyone else says it... Bioware is in the buisness of making money.  Good for them. 

1) Link me to a confirmation (official) that there will be no toolset

2) Modders have already made similar packs without a toolset

3) There is no new outfit for the companions within the DLC (I didn't even buy it, but I know that)

[Cutlass Jack]

Rockpopple wrote...

St. Thanksgiving, this goes beyond your usual hate-on for this game: now you've gone into "Make Crap Up" Territory. You're completely blowing up any credibility you have as a poster here. Turn around! o_O

Not to mention that there are already a ton of mods for this game without an official toolset. The old one works just fine, and Bioware was one of the first to tell us this.

[flexxdk]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

St. Thanksgiving, this goes beyond your usual hate-on for this game: now you've gone into "Make Crap Up" Territory. You're completely blowing up any credibility you have as a poster here. Turn around! o_O

Not to mention that there are already a ton of mods for this game without an official toolset. The old one works just fine, and Bioware was one of the first to tell us this.

Yeah, except you need like a dozen of tools if you want to do a small amount of things PROPERLY.

With a toolset, things would be easier.

But alas, we are stuck with what we have now. That means no area-editing, no fixing bugs that are impossible to fix with the current tools, etc.

No, an updated toolset would be better. I don't feel like downloading ten program on my PC to simply edit a single thing.

Modifié par Whacka, 27 avril 2011 - 08:26 .

[Elhanan]

Techless One here....

Not seeing the same problem as the OP:

http://www.dragonage...ries.php#Dragon Age 2

And enjoying the new DLC, too!

Modifié par Elhanan, 27 avril 2011 - 08:27 .

[Persephone]

Whacka wrote...

Cutlass Jack wrote...

Rockpopple wrote...

St. Thanksgiving, this goes beyond your usual hate-on for this game: now you've gone into "Make Crap Up" Territory. You're completely blowing up any credibility you have as a poster here. Turn around! o_O

Not to mention that there are already a ton of mods for this game without an official toolset. The old one works just fine, and Bioware was one of the first to tell us this.

Yeah, except you need like a dozen of tools if you want to do a small amount of things PROPERLY.

With a toolset, things would be easier.

But alas, we are stuck with what we have now. That means no area-editing, no fixing bugs that are impossible to fix with the current tools, etc.

No, an updated toolset would be better. I don't feel like downloading ten program on my PC to simply edit a single thing.

The only fact to be found above is: Yes, a toolset would make things easier.

[David Gaider]

Persephone wrote...
The only fact to be found above is: Yes, a toolset would make things easier.

An update to the toolset would make things easier, indeed.

I have no word on whether that will happen. If someone chooses to believe that, if it doesn't happen, that's because we wish to sell more DLC to PC users (the only people who really benefit from a toolset, after all), there's not really much we can do to suggest otherwise.

I think it adds value to the game for PC users who like to use mods-- for some of them it fixes (or at least amerliorates) the issues they have with the original game. Sadly, not everything is always going to be possible.

[AtreiyaN7]

This reasoning seems completely inane. After we got the toolset for DA:O, there was still DLC for the game - including items like the Feastday gifts and pranks that were basically silly toys, which were even less useful than this new pack, which is not an "appearance" pack but actually gives us useful armor, weapons and accessories.

Modders have still been able to work with the original toolset and create content as has been pointed out, including changing companions' appearances, creating modded armor, etc. You may not like the extra work involved or whatever else, but since you don't actually need to buy any of the DLC or items, this seems like just another thread started by someone who just wants to vent.

[Lenimph]

Saintthanksgiving wrote...
consolization

OH please do not blame the consoles blame EA.  

EA did the exact same thing to the Sims franchise (which is mostly played on PC) with the Sims 3 trying to sell nice looking items and giving the vanilla game fugly junk... but modders eventually worked around it anyway. 
 
There are other producers that actually brought modded items to the console players as DLC for FREE. Tomb Raider Underworld got an outfit package for example. 

Modifié par Lenimph, 27 avril 2011 - 08:45 .

[Speakeasy13]

Um, I thought the campanions can't wear those items from the new DLC? If they can then I'm seriously considering buying it.

[_Aine_]

I do hope for a toolset. Because it lets me create and learn, two things I enjoy. Those are personal things which are important to me, and me alone (and by that I just mean that it isn't for Bioware to pander to lol not that it excludes other people liking it also) .

It also allows me to keep the game active longer and keeps interest up. I bought I think all the DLC for DA:O and also used mods and fiddled with making them myself. I honestly don't think that one excludes the other. It *was* the first thought in my head because it is an easy jump, but that doesn't mean it is a correct jump. I will keep my fingers crossed that in time the toolset can be updated to allow us some easier modding. If it doesn't happen? It is just one thing I will personally really miss. I enjoyed that the game promoted the creativity of its fans and encouraged us to create right along with them in the world they created.

Modifié par shantisands, 27 avril 2011 - 08:52 .

[Persephone]

David Gaider wrote...

Persephone wrote...
The only fact to be found above is: Yes, a toolset would make things easier.

An update to the toolset would make things easier, indeed.

I have no word on whether that will happen. If someone chooses to believe that, if it doesn't happen, that's because we wish to sell more DLC to PC users (the only people who really benefit from a toolset, after all), there's not really much we can do to suggest otherwise.

I think it adds value to the game for PC users who like to use mods-- for some of them it fixes (or at least amerliorates) the issues they have with the original game. Sadly, not everything is always going to be possible.

Well, as long as you guys do not officially tell us "No toolset this time, folks", I remain hopeful. :happy:

Please do give us one, if it is at all possible.

[Speakeasy13]

David Gaider wrote...

An update to the toolset would make things easier, indeed.

I have no word on whether that will happen. If someone chooses to believe that, if it doesn't happen, that's because we wish to sell more DLC to PC users (the only people who really benefit from a toolset, after all), there's not really much we can do to suggest otherwise.

I think it adds value to the game for PC users who like to use mods-- for some of them it fixes (or at least amerliorates) the issues they have with the original game. Sadly, not everything is always going to be possible.

Can we also summarize from that (lack of a) statement, that Bioware doesn't appreciate or encourage modding anymore? That instead of investing time and energy into keeping your product alive, you'd much prefer if we just hand over our money?

Either way I appreciate the honesty. I do think tho with all these criticisms re: DA2 a toolset would be a good way to elavate a bit of the fan pressure no? Just let us fix what we didn't like ourselves, and maybe the hatin' will die down a bit.

[Apollo Starflare]

Didn't I see someone post that the toolset wouldn't have been able to replicate the content of the item pack anyway? Due to the new models used or something? I no next to nothing about the process but if so then, combined with BioWare's previous statement that they found evidence to support Origins Toolset helping to sell DLC, I'm not so sure you can jump to the conclusion you have.

Regardless, I do hope they find a way to give PC players the toolset. I play on the 360 and while seeing some of the better mods for Origins made me long for a PC capable of playing it I would still rather have the option available for the future (and for others to experience the extra variety/replayability) than nothing at all.

[DadeLeviathan]

Bioware has never been the "Mwahawhahaha! WE have your money! Mwahahahah!" Greedy type. I would say that you should rest assured that if no toolset comes, it is for more sufficient reasons than Bioware being greedy and wanting to charge money for items people could easily make with the toolset.

[Speakeasy13]

DadeLeviathan wrote...

Bioware has never been the "Mwahawhahaha! WE have your money! Mwahahahah!" Greedy type. I would say that you should rest assured that if no toolset comes, it is for more sufficient reasons than Bioware being greedy and wanting to charge money for items people could easily make with the toolset.

Back in the BG-NWN days maybe. Dunno about that one these days. I've given em a lot of extra money with ME2 and judging from the way they kept on comin, some1 in the Bioware office was laughing pretty hard.

Modifié par Speakeasy13, 27 avril 2011 - 09:02 .

[Speakeasy13]

Edited double post.

Modifié par Speakeasy13, 27 avril 2011 - 09:01 .

[David Gaider]

Speakeasy13 wrote...
Can we also summarize from that (lack of a) statement, that Bioware doesn't appreciate or encourage modding anymore? That instead of investing time and energy into keeping your product alive, you'd much prefer if we just hand over our money?

That... would be quite the extrapolation.

My not having word on a toolset stems from the fact that I am in no way involved in that decision.

[Saintthanksgiving]

The point that I am trying to make here is that a lot of content was removed, excused me, streamlined, out of Dragon Age Origins in DA2 (again please, do not bombard me with reasons that DA2 is not a sequel...)

Specifically, the ability to equip found armor on your companions was taken out.  The reason given for the change was that the integrity of the characters was ruined by dressing them in generic gear.  Fine.  I get it.

There was never a straight answer given about the toolset.  The most anyone got was a "maybe" as seen above.

I am well aware that it is still possible to create MODS using the old toolset.  I am also aware that it is a lot more difficult to do WITHOUT an updated toolset.  I am not claiming that MODS have been removed from DA2, but I dont think anyone will argue that a lot of people paid Bioware an extra 5 bucks today.

What I am claiming, is that the three events (removal of customization, no toolset, and now a 5 dollar DLC with new armors for your companions) stinks like a fishmarket at low tide.

In response to Mr. Gaider:
I have no word on whether that will happen. If someone chooses to believe that, if it doesn't happen, that's because we wish to sell more DLC to PC users (the only people who really benefit from a toolset, after all), there's not really much we can do to suggest otherwise.

In all my criticisms I have never claimed any kind of console bias in DA2.  I think the changes made have everything to do with a change in GENRE.  Plenty of Console people loved the gameplay in origins.  As far as the Toolset only benefitting the PC users, you are absolutely right.  Thats why I traded in my XBOX version of Origins to buy the PC Version.  I bought your game twice.  I posted an earlier thread about the complete disregard for fans of Origins, and I dont see anything in your comment that doesnt confirm that sentiment.  I am a PC user.  I did benefit from the Toolset.  Apparently keeping my buisness didnt mean much to anyone.

Modifié par Saintthanksgiving, 27 avril 2011 - 09:09 .

[_Motoki_]

DadeLeviathan wrote...

Bioware has never been the "Mwahawhahaha! WE have your money! Mwahahahah!" Greedy type. I would say that you should rest assured that if no toolset comes, it is for more sufficient reasons than Bioware being greedy and wanting to charge money for items people could easily make with the toolset.

But their bosses EA are. I have seen it happen before with other good companies. Origin. Maxis. I am sure there are others. They start out as great companies with heart that want to deliver quality games. Then EA comes along and they assure everyone it won't change anything, in fact it will allow them more resources to make better games. Sound great right? Except the games we end up getting are quite changed and usually not for the better. Everything ends up being money money money, DLC out the yin yang etc.

Eventually even use of those company names go away and pretty soon all that's left is EA.

[Speakeasy13]

David Gaider wrote...

That... would be quite the extrapolation.

Maybe so on our part. But it's just normative human psychology: take away something from ppl, and they will feel discouraged. If we never had one it'd be more okay, but we had one in DA:O and not in DA2, so it's only natural that ppl are guessing.